XPost: comp.os.linux.misc

On Sun, 18 Aug 2024 12:54:28 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Systemd has made finding relevant logging impossible.

systemd myth number 20: “systemd makes it impossible to run syslog.”

<http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html>

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

XPost: comp.os.linux.misc

On 18/08/2024 12:54, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Systemd has made finding relevant logging impossible. journalctl reveals nothing of relevance

Normally the problem is there is far too much crap in journald logging,
so I use rsyslog to filter it all out in to easier to use textual logs.

In another terminal do a journalctl -f to view the live log stream,
while you attempt the operation.

---druck

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

XPost: comp.os.linux.misc

T24gMjAvMDgvMjAyNCAwNzozMywgTGF3cmVuY2UgRCdPbGl2ZWlybyB3cm90ZToNCj4gT24g U3VuLCAxOCBBdWcgMjAyNCAxMjo1NDoyOCArMDEwMCwgVGhlIE5hdHVyYWwgUGhpbG9zb3Bo ZXIgd3JvdGU6DQo+IA0KPj4gU3lzdGVtZCBoYXMgbWFkZSBmaW5kaW5nIHJlbGV2YW50IGxv Z2dpbmcgaW1wb3NzaWJsZS4NCj4gDQo+IHN5c3RlbWQgbXl0aCBudW1iZXIgMjA6IOKAnHN5 c3RlbWQgbWFrZXMgaXQgaW1wb3NzaWJsZSB0byBydW4gc3lzbG9nLuKAnQ0KPiANCj4gPGh0 dHA6Ly8wcG9pbnRlci5kZS9ibG9nL3Byb2plY3RzL3RoZS1iaWdnZXN0LW15dGhzLmh0bWw+ DQoNClRoYXQgd2FzIGJhY2sgaW4gMjAxMyB3aGVuIHRoZXkgd2VyZSBjbGFpbWluZyB0aGUg b2NjdXBhdGlvbiBvZiANCkN6ZWNob3Nsb3Zha2lhIGFuZCBpbnZhc2lvbiBvZiBQb2xhbmQg d2VyZW4ndCBhbnl0aGluZyB0byBiZSBjb25jZXJuZWQgDQphYm91dCwgdGhleSd2ZSBzaW5j ZSB0YWtlbiB0aGUgbG93IGNvdW50cmllcyBhbmQgRnJhbmNlLiBPbmx5IGEgc21hbGwgDQpp c2xhbmQga2luZ2RvbSBvZiBkaXN0cm9zIGFyZSBob2xkaW5nIG91dCBhZ2FpbnN0IHRoZSBm b3JjZXMgb2YgZXZpbCwgDQp3aGlsZSB0aGUgZGlzdW5pdGVkIHN0YXRlcyBvZiBCU0QgYXJl IGxvb2tpbmcgdGhlIG90aGVyIHdheS4NCg0KV2Ugc2hhbGwgZmlnaHQgb24gdGhlIGJvb3N0 cmFwLCB3ZSBzaGFsbCBmaWdodCBvbiB0aGUgbG9nZ2luZywgd2Ugc2hhbGwgDQpmaWdodCBp biB0aGUgbmV0d29yayBhbmQgaW4gdGhlIHJlc29sdmVyLCB3ZSBzaGFsbCBmaWdodCBpbiB0 aGUgdGVtcCANCmZpbGVzLiBXZSBzaGFsbCBuZXZlciBzdXJyZW5kZXIhDQoNCi0tLWRydWNr
DQo=

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

XPost: comp.os.linux.misc

On Tue, 20 Aug 2024 21:32:57 +0100, druck wrote:

Normally the problem is there is far too much crap in journald
logging ...

You realize journalctl has its own filtering system to narrow things down? Selection by service name, date range, message priority, just about
everything you might care about. Even the fields displayed can be narrowed down.

<https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/journalctl.html>

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

XPost: comp.os.linux.misc

On 21/08/2024 00:05, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Tue, 20 Aug 2024 21:32:57 +0100, druck wrote:

Normally the problem is there is far too much crap in journald
logging ...

You realize journalctl has its own filtering system to narrow things down? Selection by service name, date range, message priority, just about everything you might care about. Even the fields displayed can be narrowed down.

<https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/journalctl.html>

Yes, but I don't want to fiddle with all that crap when there is a
perfectly working syslog with the configuration files I spent years
tuning, and easily grep'able text log files.

journald is a massive step backwards, no matter how many bells and
whistles they stick on it.

---druck

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

XPost: comp.os.linux.misc

On 21/08/2024 07:23, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

I'm just gonna say it ... WORM earns that name.

Alas, on a PI, still not much other choice. LOTS
of things totally screwed up - needlessly. I think
Deb hired a bunch of Canonical rejects ... SHAME !
If I wanted the Ubuntu mess I'd have installed that.

I agree the latest Bookworm is not set up the way I want it. I don't
want Wayland or Network Manager, and I do want Xorg and rsyslog.

HOPING for something like a Devuian fork -
an "original Deb" offshoot - even based
on BullsEye it'd be a huge improvement.
Based on Buster would be even better - still
all the old config files and such in the
well-documented places/formats.

My set up has been migrated from whatever was on the very first 256MB Pi (Stretch?) all the way through to Bullseye on the Pi 4B. With a not
quite in place 32 bit to 64 bit Bullseye upgrade, I was then able to in
place upgrade to 64 bit Bookworm, and transfer to the Pi 5 - but
successfully keeping everything set up identically to how it was previously.

If that option hadn't worked, I'd definitely be looking for alternate
distros.

So SAD - Deb used to be 'the rock', 'the
foundation', with no BS. How quickly things
can go bad ....... beware .........

Thing is because I always in place upgraded, I didn't notice when the
rot had set in, and was horrified at the changes that had been made when
I initially did a clean install of Bookworm for the Pi 5.

---druck

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

XPost: comp.os.linux.misc

On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 09:18:29 +0100
druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:

Yes, but I don't want to fiddle with all that crap when there is a
perfectly working syslog with the configuration files I spent years
tuning, and easily grep'able text log files.

Right there is the true importance of backwards compatibility. I'm
sure journald has many wonderful features but babies and bathwater spring
to mind.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
For forms of government let fools contest
Whate're is best administered is best - Alexander Pope

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

XPost: comp.os.linux.misc

On 21/08/2024 09:18, druck wrote:

On 21/08/2024 00:05, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Tue, 20 Aug 2024 21:32:57 +0100, druck wrote:

Normally the problem is there is far too much crap in journald
logging ...

You realize journalctl has its own filtering system to narrow things
down?
Selection by service name, date range, message priority, just about
everything you might care about. Even the fields displayed can be
narrowed
down.

<https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/journalctl.html>

Yes, but I don't want to fiddle with all that crap when there is a
perfectly working syslog with the configuration files I spent years
tuning, and easily grep'able text log files.

journald is a massive step backwards, no matter how many bells and
whistles they stick on it.

---druck

I shouldn't have mentioned systemd. Journalctl reveals no failures
reported by the snmp daemon. It simply silently ignores the 'extend'
directive.

--
"Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace, community, compassion, investment, security, housing...."
"What kind of person is not interested in those things?"

"Jeremy Corbyn?"

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

XPost: comp.os.linux.misc

On 21/08/2024 10:57, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 09:18:29 +0100
druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:

Yes, but I don't want to fiddle with all that crap when there is a
perfectly working syslog with the configuration files I spent years
tuning, and easily grep'able text log files.

Right there is the true importance of backwards compatibility. I'm
sure journald has many wonderful features but babies and bathwater spring
to mind.

Systemd is very Marxist/EUist.
There must be one central authority to ensure things are always done the
right way.
And who decided the right way?

Some appartchik was tasked with it who understood nothing about the real
world

--
Labour - a bunch of rich people convincing poor people to vote for rich
people by telling poor people that "other" rich people are the reason
they are poor.

Peter Thompson

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

XPost: comp.os.linux.misc

On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 10:57:58 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 09:18:29 +0100 druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:

Yes, but I don't want to fiddle with all that crap when there is a
perfectly working syslog with the configuration files I spent years
tuning, and easily grep'able text log files.

Right there is the true importance of backwards compatibility. I'm
sure journald has many wonderful features but babies and bathwater
spring to mind.

systemd myth number 20: “systemd makes it impossible to run syslog.”

<http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html>

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)