On 28/09/2023 08:53, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-5/

Scroll down for specs.

Cool.

Only 4 Core Cortex A76 (no Cortex-A55 cores). I think the A76 is the
fast core, so, I guess, mainly a loss of energy efficiency when
idle(ish). Given the Orange Pi5 (with 4xA76 + 4xA55) is 1-2 watts at
idle, there might be room to play with. i.e I'm disappointed it isn't 8
core, but it might be a good pragmatic choice.

I think, no storage apart from micro SD, no (SATA, NVME), but I quite
like micro SD.

The big thing for me will be the GPU and driver, VideoCore VII GPU. In comparison, drivers for the Orange Pi5 GPU, the Mali 610, are
problematic, stunning when they work, but due to GPU driver problems, my
oPi5 is currently stuck on a 6-month-old version of Armbian, with
updates turned off.

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Am 28.09.23 um 09:53 schrieb Richard Kettlewell:

https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-5/

Look at cover plate above the cooler.

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More technical details here: https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/introducing-raspberry-pi-5/

All very interesting, but:
"RP1 is our I/O controller for Raspberry Pi 5"

So:
Raspberry Pi 1 = first models of Raspberry Pi.
RP1 = a chip on the Raspberry Pi 5 board.

I'm increasingly thinking that the Raspberry Pi people like being
confusing.

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https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-5/

Scroll down for specs.

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On 28/09/2023 09:26, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

More technical details here: https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/introducing-raspberry-pi-5/

All very interesting, but:
"RP1 is our I/O controller for Raspberry Pi 5"

So:
Raspberry Pi 1 = first models of Raspberry Pi.
RP1 = a chip on the Raspberry Pi 5 board.

I'm increasingly thinking that the Raspberry Pi people like being
confusing.

There never was a Raspberry Pi 1.
The first iterations were Pi B and Pi A, followed by B+ and A+ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi

--
Chris Elvidge, England
TAR IS NOT A PLAYTHING

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Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:

Only 4 Core Cortex A76 (no Cortex-A55 cores). I think the A76 is the
fast core, so, I guess, mainly a loss of energy efficiency when
idle(ish). Given the Orange Pi5 (with 4xA76 + 4xA55) is 1-2 watts at
idle, there might be room to play with. i.e I'm disappointed it isn't 8
core, but it might be a good pragmatic choice.

I suspect area was a concern, and possibly the extra complexity of going big.LITTLE wasn't worth it.

I think, no storage apart from micro SD, no (SATA, NVME), but I quite
like micro SD.

There is NVMe via an additional HAT, TBA early 2024. Only PCIe Gen2 x1
though:
https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/introducing-raspberry-pi-5/

Pricing not published but it doesn't look very complicated so it might not
be expensive.

With more stuff moved to the I/O chip, I'm wondering how the CM5 will look:
it would be nice to get access to more of that PCIe, but lack of USB 2 or ethernet without the I/O chip is going to be more problematic. Maybe they would hang the I/O chip off a x1 (fine for USB 2 and gigE) and allow access
to the x4?

The big thing for me will be the GPU and driver, VideoCore VII GPU. In comparison, drivers for the Orange Pi5 GPU, the Mali 610, are
problematic, stunning when they work, but due to GPU driver problems, my
oPi5 is currently stuck on a 6-month-old version of Armbian, with
updates turned off.

If they mainline their Mesa drivers (as the VC4 is) I expect the Videocore
will be as easy to use as say an Intel integrated GPU (although perhaps not
as featureful).

Mali started off with closed source drivers from Arm. The open source
Panfrost project supports some Mali GPUs, but it seems not the G610: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/issues/8054

Theo

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Richard Kettlewell wrote:

https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-5/

Jeff Geerling video

<https://youtu.be/nBtOEmUqASQ>

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Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

Richard Kettlewell wrote:

https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-5/

Jeff Geerling video

<https://youtu.be/nBtOEmUqASQ>

That's interesting. Suggests the external PCIe lane is capable of Gen3 but only certified at Gen2 so far - it can be switched with some bootloader
config.

That makes it interesting for external I/O - eg as a proper RAID
NAS without having to go via USB.

Quite a lot of interesting new options that will no doubt be further
developed in the fullness of time.

Theo

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On 28/09/2023 08:53, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-5/

Scroll down for specs.

Thanks Richard. Looks pretty fun. Ideal client for graphical apps. My
main criteria are HD video to a biggish display.

Otherwise the humblest PI with ethernet will do server side for my gas
guzsling 'home server'




--
“It is not the truth of Marxism that explains the willingness of intellectuals to believe it, but the power that it confers on
intellectuals, in their attempts to control the world. And since...it is
futile to reason someone out of a thing that he was not reasoned into,
we can conclude that Marxism owes its remarkable power to survive every criticism to the fact that it is not a truth-directed but a
power-directed system of thought.”
Sir Roger Scruton

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On 28/09/2023 12:41, Andy Burns wrote:

Richard Kettlewell wrote:

https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-5/

Jeff Geerling video

<https://youtu.be/nBtOEmUqASQ>

Excellent walk through.

recommended.

--
"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow witted
man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest
thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid
before him."

- Leo Tolstoy

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On 28/09/2023 08:53, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-5/

Scroll down for specs.

Another review from elReg: https://www.theregister.com/2023/09/28/raspberry_pi_5_revealed

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On 28/09/2023 10:55, Theo wrote:

The big thing for me will be the GPU and driver, VideoCore VII GPU. In
comparison, drivers for the Orange Pi5 GPU, the Mali 610, are
problematic, stunning when they work, but due to GPU driver problems, my
oPi5 is currently stuck on a 6-month-old version of Armbian, with
updates turned off.

If they mainline their Mesa drivers (as the VC4 is) I expect the Videocore will be as easy to use as say an Intel integrated GPU (although perhaps not as featureful).

I've pre-ordered one, I live in hope.

Mali started off with closed source drivers from Arm. The open source Panfrost project supports some Mali GPUs, but it seems not the G610: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/issues/8054

I use Panfork, a fork of Panfrost, designed to work with Mali G610, but
there appears to be some disharmony between the individual developer of
Panfork and members of the Panfrost project. Which discourages optimism
about the fork ever being merged back into Panfrost, and more fully
supported. This is why I'm running a 6-month-old version of Armbian. I'm unclear if or how long it will take Panfrost to independently support
the Mali G610. You'd think it was a priority, given the impressive
nature of the RK3588(S) SOC.

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Chris Elvidge <chris@mshome.net> wrote:

On 28/09/2023 09:26, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

All very interesting, but:
"RP1 is our I/O controller for Raspberry Pi 5"

So:
Raspberry Pi 1 = first models of Raspberry Pi.
RP1 = a chip on the Raspberry Pi 5 board.

I'm increasingly thinking that the Raspberry Pi people like being
confusing.

There never was a Raspberry Pi 1.
The first iterations were Pi B and Pi A, followed by B+ and A+

As soon as they named the Raspberry Pi 2, those obviously became
the Raspberry Pi 1. I don't care about official names, the point
is that someone trying to search for info on the one is now likely
to get false results applying to the other, especially for topics
like electrical characteristics or register maps which apply to the
new chip as well as the original boards. Not long ago I did a lot
of such web searches for the Raspberry Pi 1 (because the info also
relates to the RPi Zero).

I was probably being a bit grumpy pointing out just that, but it's
such a simple, obvious, thing that adds one more trap the existing
minefield of scattered RPi documentation.

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https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-5/
Scroll down for specs.

I was so st0ked to see that today. I'm excited to use the PCIe lane - and the extra compute will be well received, too. While Rock has been giving SBC users some great options, I'm happy that theres another Pi coming our way.

w00t w00t!



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

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Yesterday Youtube spilled a video from German magazine C't into my
suggestins. They have tested the new Pi 5 and compared it's performance to Pi 4.
Now I'm wondering wheterh there will be Pi 500 (Pi 5 based successor to
Pi400, eventually with 8GB of RAM.

--
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Andreas Bockelmann

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On 28/09/2023 08:53, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-5/

Scroll down for specs.

I wonder whether this time it will have an incredibly trivial but useful
thing that is lacking from the present Pi 3 and 4: a power LED which
*goes out when the Pi is shutdown*. I use my Pis headless, via VNC, and
when I shutdown a Pi I never know when it is safe to turn the power off
because the red LED remains lit all the time that USB power is applied.
I have to look for absence of green disk-activity LED and hope...

I imagine it is more obvious if you have a monitor connected by HDMI
because there will be all the shutdown messages - but those are lost if
you are viewing the screen by VNC once the TCP connection is dropped
early in the shutdown process.

Yes, it *is* incredibly trivial ;-)


I hope also they've fixed the evil problem that the Pi 4 has (which the
Pi 3 didn't) relating to a powered USB hub for driving a spinning HDD.
I've tried two different hubs and found that the Pi hangs indefinitely
during booting if the hub and the HDD are powered on at the same time as
the Pi, rather than being powered on before the Pi is booted. The
simultaneous power-on happens if there is a power cut and then the power
comes back on. I found that as soon as the USB lead was unplugged or the
hub was power-cycled after the Pi had hung, booting would continue.

Some people suggested that the problem was because the hub was sending
power up the USB line to the Pi, so I made up a special cable in which I
cut the +5V line between the Pi and the hub, but this made no difference.

If the HDD was powered from the Pi itself rather than from a powered USB
hub, everything was fine, but this made the Pi run *very* hot, and there
were warnings not to do it that way.

I eventually had to buy a powered HDD caddy that takes a SATA disk,
rather than being able to use a USB HDD powered from a USB hub.

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NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:

On 28/09/2023 08:53, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-5/

Scroll down for specs.

I wonder whether this time it will have an incredibly trivial but useful thing that is lacking from the present Pi 3 and 4: a power LED which
*goes out when the Pi is shutdown*. I use my Pis headless, via VNC, and
when I shutdown a Pi I never know when it is safe to turn the power off because the red LED remains lit all the time that USB power is applied.
I have to look for absence of green disk-activity LED and hope...

There is a multicolour LED and a power button, which cases can combine into
a single illuminated button. It sounds like there's more PC-like power management, with poweroff, sleep, etc modes. It's handled by a new Renesas/Dialog PMIC which is apparently custom for the Pi and sounds like it has firmware to handle power management, current monitoring, USB-C power delivery, RTC, and maybe other stuff.

I hope also they've fixed the evil problem that the Pi 4 has (which the
Pi 3 didn't) relating to a powered USB hub for driving a spinning HDD.
I've tried two different hubs and found that the Pi hangs indefinitely
during booting if the hub and the HDD are powered on at the same time as
the Pi, rather than being powered on before the Pi is booted. The simultaneous power-on happens if there is a power cut and then the power comes back on. I found that as soon as the USB lead was unplugged or the
hub was power-cycled after the Pi had hung, booting would continue.

Not sure what's going on there, but I've had problems booting PCs with USB sticks plugged in via hubs (or USB-A to C dongles which contain a hub). I suspect some hubs stop the firmware talking to the USB boot device. Linux
is full of support 'quirks' that particular devices have, but I suspect the firmware driver is more primitive.

Theo

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NY,

I wonder whether this time it will have an incredibly trivial but useful thing that is lacking from the present Pi 3 and 4: a power LED which *goes out when the Pi is shutdown*.

I seem to remember some way to add a "power button" to the RPi.

With it came a small program (running below the OS) which controlled a
relais which would than disconnect the power to the RPi. An ATX style powerbutton combo if you will.

You could try and see if you could only use the software part, and instead
of driving a relais connecting to a simple LED.

... or make it a full ATX setup ofcourse. :-)

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

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On 2023-09-30, R.Wieser <address@is.invalid> wrote:

With it came a small program (running below the OS) which controlled a
relais which would than disconnect the power to the RPi. An ATX style powerbutton combo if you will.

You could try and see if you could only use the software part, and instead
of driving a relais connecting to a simple LED.

You can attach a LED to any free GPIO pin and configure the kernel to use it
as a "heartbeat"-LED - it will blink in heartbeat fashion, with the speed corresponding to CPU load. After shutdown, it will stop blinking.

All that is required on the software side is a bit of dtoverlay magic in /boot/config.txt - Look at the dtoverlay part in

https://github.com/mschwingen/hardware/tree/master/JTAG_hat#setup

(using that configuration, the button needs to be pressed for 5 seconds to shutdown, since I also need the button for other purposes).

Powering up again after shutdown is supposed to work by using pin 5 (GPIO2)
for the button, but that interferes with I2C in my case.

cu
Michael
--
Some people have no respect of age unless it is bottled.

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On 2023-09-28, Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-5/

Scroll down for specs.

They've moved the PoE takeoff pins. Guess that gives them a chance to
make a PoE hat that actually works this time. Mutter mutter...

--
Ian

"Tamahome!!!" - "Miaka!!!"

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NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:

I wonder whether this time it will have an incredibly trivial but useful thing that is lacking from the present Pi 3 and 4: a power LED which
*goes out when the Pi is shutdown*. I use my Pis headless, via VNC, and
when I shutdown a Pi I never know when it is safe to turn the power off because the red LED remains lit all the time that USB power is applied.
I have to look for absence of green disk-activity LED and hope...

Take a look at the green LED instead. When you issue "shutdown -h now,"
right before it shuts down, it blinks rapidly for a couple of seconds before switching off and staying off. I have a CM4 driving my 3D printer (via a carrier board), and both it and the RPi 3 the CM4 replaced behave this way (with the CM4, the LED is on the carrier board).

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