I'm currently running Bullseye on a Raspberry Pi Model B Plus Rev 1.2
but I'd quite like to move to Bookworm if I can.

It's headless and has a 'lite' installation, it's not doing very much
that pushes its processing power so should be OK from that point of
view.

I can't quite remember why I installed Bullseye rather than Bookworm,
there must have been some sort of reason but now I can't really see
what that might have been! :-)

--
Chris Green
·

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On 29/11/2024 22:49, Chris Green wrote:

I'm currently running Bullseye on a Raspberry Pi Model B Plus Rev 1.2
but I'd quite like to move to Bookworm if I can.

It's headless and has a 'lite' installation, it's not doing very much
that pushes its processing power so should be OK from that point of
view.

I can't quite remember why I installed Bullseye rather than Bookworm,
there must have been some sort of reason but now I can't really see
what that might have been! :-)

There is, of course no supported way to move from Bullseye to bookworm,
other than full reinstall.

Even though they used to give notes on how to do it previously. then
don't for this move. I would recommend a full reinstall anyway!

--
Chris

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On Fri, 29 Nov 2024 22:49:15 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

I can't quite remember why I installed Bullseye rather than Bookworm ...

Codename confusion? I can’t keep them straight myself.

Bullseye = Debian 11
Bookworm = Debian 12

Or just install this package
<https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/osinfo-db>.

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On 29/11/2024 22:49, Chris Green wrote:

I'm currently running Bullseye on a Raspberry Pi Model B Plus Rev 1.2
but I'd quite like to move to Bookworm if I can.

It's headless and has a 'lite' installation, it's not doing very much
that pushes its processing power so should be OK from that point of
view.

I can't quite remember why I installed Bullseye rather than Bookworm,
there must have been some sort of reason but now I can't really see
what that might have been! :-)

Some stuff was pretty different. I installed bookworm because it was
new and shiny, Its taken some time to get it stable.

But I am beginning to think it will take the strain.


--
"The great thing about Glasgow is that if there's a nuclear attack it'll
look exactly the same afterwards."

Billy Connolly

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Chris Townley <news@cct-net.co.uk> wrote:

On 29/11/2024 22:49, Chris Green wrote:

I'm currently running Bullseye on a Raspberry Pi Model B Plus Rev 1.2
but I'd quite like to move to Bookworm if I can.

It's headless and has a 'lite' installation, it's not doing very much
that pushes its processing power so should be OK from that point of
view.

I can't quite remember why I installed Bullseye rather than Bookworm,
there must have been some sort of reason but now I can't really see
what that might have been! :-)

There is, of course no supported way to move from Bullseye to bookworm,
other than full reinstall.

That's not a problem, a clean install followed by restoring my /home
will be just about all that's needed. I also have an 'added' list of
the packages I have installed in addition to the base system. There's
only half a dozen or so.

--
Chris Green
·

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On 30/11/2024 09:03, Chris Green wrote:

Chris Townley <news@cct-net.co.uk> wrote:

On 29/11/2024 22:49, Chris Green wrote:

I'm currently running Bullseye on a Raspberry Pi Model B Plus Rev 1.2
but I'd quite like to move to Bookworm if I can.

It's headless and has a 'lite' installation, it's not doing very much
that pushes its processing power so should be OK from that point of
view.

I can't quite remember why I installed Bullseye rather than Bookworm,
there must have been some sort of reason but now I can't really see
what that might have been! :-)

There is, of course no supported way to move from Bullseye to bookworm,
other than full reinstall.

That's not a problem, a clean install followed by restoring my /home
will be just about all that's needed. I also have an 'added' list of
the packages I have installed in addition to the base system. There's
only half a dozen or so.

Yes. I write a file called 'system.txt' to document everything I did to
get from fresh install to where I am now.

It is almost a runnable script :-)

--
"Fanaticism consists in redoubling your effort when you have
forgotten your aim."

George Santayana

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On 30/11/2024 09:03, Chris Green wrote:

Chris Townley <news@cct-net.co.uk> wrote:

On 29/11/2024 22:49, Chris Green wrote:

I'm currently running Bullseye on a Raspberry Pi Model B Plus Rev 1.2
but I'd quite like to move to Bookworm if I can.

It's headless and has a 'lite' installation, it's not doing very much
that pushes its processing power so should be OK from that point of
view.

I can't quite remember why I installed Bullseye rather than Bookworm,
there must have been some sort of reason but now I can't really see
what that might have been! :-)

There is, of course no supported way to move from Bullseye to bookworm,
other than full reinstall.

That's not a problem, a clean install followed by restoring my /home
will be just about all that's needed. I also have an 'added' list of
the packages I have installed in addition to the base system. There's
only half a dozen or so.

Save your old SD card - just in case!

--
Cheers,
David
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu

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On 30/11/2024 10:33, David Taylor wrote:

On 30/11/2024 09:03, Chris Green wrote:

Chris Townley <news@cct-net.co.uk> wrote:

On 29/11/2024 22:49, Chris Green wrote:

I'm currently running Bullseye on a Raspberry Pi Model B Plus Rev 1.2
but I'd quite like to move to Bookworm if I can.

It's headless and has a 'lite' installation, it's not doing very much
that pushes its processing power so should be OK from that point of
view.

I can't quite remember why I installed Bullseye rather than Bookworm,
there must have been some sort of reason but now I can't really see
what that might have been! :-)

There is, of course no supported way to move from Bullseye to bookworm,
other than full reinstall.

That's not a problem, a clean install followed by restoring my /home
will be just about all that's needed.  I also have an 'added' list of
the packages I have installed in addition to the base system.  There's
only half a dozen or so.

Save your old SD card - just in case!

Agreed. SD cards are not expensive.

--
To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.

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Chris Townley <news@cct-net.co.uk> wrote:

There is, of course no supported way to move from Bullseye to
bookworm, other than full reinstall.

Really?

I could easily update Debian11/armel to Debian12 and then even
transgrade[0] it to Devuan5.

What is RasPIan doing differently now?

____________

[0]: Migrate from Debian Bookworm to Daedalus
<https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/daedalus/bookworm-to-daedalus>

--
Die Partei | Martin Sonneborn | Die Partei
Die Partei | Gespräch am Küchentisch, Teil II | Die Partei
Die Partei | <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C21SJd5SVE> | Die Partei

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On 30/11/2024 10:50, yeti wrote:

What is RasPIan doing differently now?

I don't know what they are doing but it fuc^W failed badly when I did it.

I have done numerous x86 in situ Debian upgrades on laptops, desktops
and VMs in data centres. All have been upgraded from Debian 9 to 10,
then 11 and then 12 as new versions become available. Follow the guide
on the Debian website and it just works.

But 11 to 12 on a Pi Zero W really mucked up. Sure I ended up with
something that would say it was Debian 12 and seemed to work. But after
a while I noticed the networking was a mixture of NetworkMangler and old scripts that was an unbelievable spaghetti of mixed stuff. Also whatever
repos it was using, it didn't do kernel updates. And yes, I checked the
repos were correct in /etc/apt.

I had successfully upgraded in place from 10 to 11 on the same Pi Zero W before. But 11 to 12 was a disaster.

No surprises a clean install and applying my changes brought me a v12
that works and isn't a mixture of 11 and 12.

I don't have enough minutes left on Earth to worry why and find out what
went wrong. Next time I will back up the 12 image + changes and updates
and try in situ update to see if 12>13 works. If it looks slightly iffy
I'll reinstall again. And I have the backup image should I ever need to
go back.

And I know I'm not the only person who found in situ update to 12 failed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 29/11/2024 at 22:49, Chris Green wrote:

I'm currently running Bullseye on a Raspberry Pi Model B Plus Rev 1.2
but I'd quite like to move to Bookworm if I can.

It's headless and has a 'lite' installation, it's not doing very much
that pushes its processing power so should be OK from that point of
view.

I can't quite remember why I installed Bullseye rather than Bookworm,
there must have been some sort of reason but now I can't really see
what that might have been! :-)

No problem here:

$ cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor : 0
model name : ARMv6-compatible processor rev 7 (v6l)
BogoMIPS : 697.95
Features : half thumb fastmult vfp edsp java tls
CPU implementer : 0x41
CPU architecture: 7
CPU variant : 0x0
CPU part : 0xb76
CPU revision : 7

Hardware : BCM2835
Revision : 900032
Serial : 00000000c72dee2a
Model : Raspberry Pi Model B Plus Rev 1.2

$ cat /etc/os-release
PRETTY_NAME="Raspbian GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm)"
NAME="Raspbian GNU/Linux"
VERSION_ID="12"
VERSION="12 (bookworm)"
VERSION_CODENAME=bookworm
ID=raspbian
ID_LIKE=debian
HOME_URL="http://www.raspbian.org/" SUPPORT_URL="http://www.raspbian.org/RaspbianForums" BUG_REPORT_URL="http://www.raspbian.org/RaspbianBugs"



--
Chris Elvidge, England
I WILL NOT EXPOSE THE IGNORANCE OF THE FACULTY

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Chris Elvidge <chris@internal.net> wrote:

On 29/11/2024 at 22:49, Chris Green wrote:

I'm currently running Bullseye on a Raspberry Pi Model B Plus Rev 1.2
but I'd quite like to move to Bookworm if I can.

It's headless and has a 'lite' installation, it's not doing very much
that pushes its processing power so should be OK from that point of
view.

I can't quite remember why I installed Bullseye rather than Bookworm,
there must have been some sort of reason but now I can't really see
what that might have been! :-)

No problem here:

$ cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor : 0
model name : ARMv6-compatible processor rev 7 (v6l)
BogoMIPS : 697.95
Features : half thumb fastmult vfp edsp java tls
CPU implementer : 0x41
CPU architecture: 7
CPU variant : 0x0
CPU part : 0xb76
CPU revision : 7

Hardware : BCM2835
Revision : 900032
Serial : 00000000c72dee2a
Model : Raspberry Pi Model B Plus Rev 1.2

$ cat /etc/os-release
PRETTY_NAME="Raspbian GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm)"
NAME="Raspbian GNU/Linux"
VERSION_ID="12"
VERSION="12 (bookworm)"
VERSION_CODENAME=bookworm
ID=raspbian
ID_LIKE=debian
HOME_URL="http://www.raspbian.org/" SUPPORT_URL="http://www.raspbian.org/RaspbianForums" BUG_REPORT_URL="http://www.raspbian.org/RaspbianBugs"

Thanks, that's just what I wanted. When I'm next on the boat in
France where the Pi is I will move to Bookworm. The SD card it's
using at the moment seems a bit flakey anyway so I'll 'archive' that
and use a new one.

There's actually a quite large USB stick plugged into it too that has
quite a lot of spare space so if I get to feel a bit paranoid about
the SD card I can copy all the important bits to the USB stick. I can
do this remotely using an ssh connection. I don't fancy trying a major
upgrade vi ssh though!

--
Chris Green
·

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mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> wrote:

And I know I'm not the only person who found in situ update to 12
failed.

Scary. That sounds like just an other reason not to go back.

Or I might find out what's the problem later.

--
1. Hitchhiker 13: (17) "Funny," he intoned funerally, "how just when you
think life can't possibly get any worse it suddenly does."

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On 30/11/2024 10:50, yeti wrote:

Chris Townley <news@cct-net.co.uk> wrote:

There is, of course no supported way to move from Bullseye to
bookworm, other than full reinstall.

Really?

I could easily update Debian11/armel to Debian12 and then even
transgrade[0] it to Devuan5.

What is RasPIan doing differently now?

____________

[0]: Migrate from Debian Bookworm to Daedalus
<https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/daedalus/bookworm-to-daedalus>

It hasn't been Raspian for a long time. It is now Raspberry Pi OS

Wit the changes from Bullseye to Bookworm, Raspberry Pi engineers
reckoned it was too easy to break the install, and did not want to
support lots of broken installs where people do not have the skills to
fix. If you have the skills, and a good backup, give it a try, but you
won't get help from Raspberry Pi engineers


--
Chris

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On 30/11/2024 00:23, Chris Townley wrote:

On 29/11/2024 22:49, Chris Green wrote:

I'm currently running Bullseye on a Raspberry Pi Model B Plus Rev 1.2
but I'd quite like to move to Bookworm if I can.

It's headless and has a 'lite' installation, it's not doing very much
that pushes its processing power so should be OK from that point of
view.

I can't quite remember why I installed Bullseye rather than Bookworm,
there must have been some sort of reason but now I can't really see
what that might have been! :-)

There is, of course no supported way to move from Bullseye to bookworm,
other than full reinstall.

Even though they used to give notes on how to do it previously. then
don't for this move. I would recommend a full reinstall anyway!

I've used this guide on dozens of Pi's running both 32 bit and 64 bit
Bullseye and have not had any problems:-

https://pimylifeup.com/raspberry-pi-os-bullseye-to-bookworm/

However, this gives you a like-for-like upgrade with all the same things installed as before, but updated - which is how I like it.

The reason the Raspbian people don't want you do this, is they have made
some big changes to the packages and the way Bookworm is set up, and
while you could reproduce these after an in-place upgrade, it's far
easier to start from scratch with a new image.

Some of the major changes are:-

* rsyslog not installed, only journald
* Network Manager for setting up networking instead of dhdcp/wpa
* Wayland installed by default, although can revert to X11

If you are running the Lite version the last one wont be an issue.

In the end it comes down to the choice continuing to do things the way
they've been since the Pi 1, or following Raspbian's currently supported
new way.

---druck

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On 30/11/2024 13:20, Chris Green wrote:

There's actually a quite large USB stick plugged into it too that has
quite a lot of spare space so if I get to feel a bit paranoid about
the SD card I can copy all the important bits to the USB stick. I can
do this remotely using an ssh connection. I don't fancy trying a major upgrade vi ssh though!

I've done major upgrades to remote Pi's and while it was a bit of a
squeaky bottom time, they all worked and came back up with the new OS.

Ironically it was a minor update to one of my remote Pi's which resulted
it not coming back on the VPN. I had to then drive an hour to sort it
out, and found it had just hung on rebooting, as can occasionally
happen, and was fine after a power cycle.

Using an internet connected switched socket would have fixed that
without having to be there, but I still haven't got around to buying one.

---druck

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On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 09:03:43 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

... a clean install followed by restoring my /home
will be just about all that's needed.

This is why I like to reserve a second OS partition when initially setting
up filesystem volumes, so I can put an entirely different system there
without disturbing the user files on /home.

But why would you need to, just to do a Debian upgrade?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:

On 30/11/2024 13:20, Chris Green wrote:

There's actually a quite large USB stick plugged into it too that has
quite a lot of spare space so if I get to feel a bit paranoid about
the SD card I can copy all the important bits to the USB stick. I can
do this remotely using an ssh connection. I don't fancy trying a major upgrade vi ssh though!

I've done major upgrades to remote Pi's and while it was a bit of a
squeaky bottom time, they all worked and came back up with the new OS.

I've considered trying a couple of times but since it's all working OK
and I don't really **need** to move it to Bookworm I've not bothered.

Ironically it was a minor update to one of my remote Pi's which resulted
it not coming back on the VPN. I had to then drive an hour to sort it
out, and found it had just hung on rebooting, as can occasionally
happen, and was fine after a power cycle.

My remote Pi is a five hour drive and a ferry crossing to France away!

Using an internet connected switched socket would have fixed that
without having to be there, but I still haven't got around to buying one.

That's a good idea, and it would have other uses for me too, I could
switch the shore power connection remotely which might be handy if the
solar panels aren't keeping the batteries properly charged. The shore
power is disconnected when I'm away to minimise galvanic corrosion.

--
Chris Green
·

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