Hello Holger,

Can you tell me in wich TimeZone your FidoNet system works?,
as your message from 09:41 arrives me at 06:54 local time here in NL.
That is UTC/GMT London.uk + 1 + 1 for summertime.
So the difference between us is 3 hours, right?
Do you have summertime in your country?
I hope that 2 times a year changing for summertime will come to an end.
Europe is thinking about it.

Some minutes ago a message from Bjorn Felten from Sweden arrived here in
the FidoNews area in the same TimeZone as Germany and The Netherlands.
I thought the Aland islands were also Swedish,
or do you use Finnisch Time?

Sunny greetings from Henri.

---
* Origin: Computing Apart Together (2:280/1208)

In a message on 05-31-19 Henri Derksen said to Holger Granholm:

Good morning Henri.

Can you tell me in wich TimeZone your FidoNet system works?,

My BBS works on GMT +3 hours when on summer time. Otherwise GMT +2 hrs.

So the difference between us is 3 hours, right?

Correct.

Do you have summertime in your country?

Sadly, yes.

I hope that 2 times a year changing for summertime will come to an
end. Europe is thinking about it.

So do I.

I thought the Aland islands were also Swedish,

See above.

Please note that the �land Islands is a selfgoverning part of Finland.

Here's a clip from a message from Sampsa Laine:

Date: 10-26-13 16:04 Message #: 207229 HAM-BOX
From: Sampsa Laine Status: PUBLIC
To: Holger Granholm Ref #: 0
Subject: Re: Finland was Sweden Conf: FidoN SYSOP (23)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Holger Granholm wrote to Roy Witt <=-

Second. for 700 years what is now called Finland was in fact Sweden.
In other words Fubland was swedish.

Just wanted to chime in here, Finland was never a colony of Sweden, it
was a full province with equal status, its own nobility and sent
electors to the court etc.

After the loss of Finland to Russia in 1809, Finland was NOT incorporated
into the Russian Empire as most land was - instead the Tsar confirmed
the rights and privileges of the existing estates (nobility, clergy,
commoners) and set Finland up as an autonomous Grand Duchy of which
the Tsar was the Grand Duke. There were customs barriers between
Russia and Finland, different monetary systems and even limited
parliamentary democracy after Alexander II (which is why his
statue still stands in the middle of Helsinki's Senate Square).

In fact Finns had the most individual rights of ANY subjects of
the Tsars, we were far better off than even Russians themselves..

Ironically, without the loss of Finland to Russia in 1809 I
doubt there would be a country called Finland today - we
would just be another province like Scania etc.

The whole idea of Finnish nationalism came about in roughly
1850 with the saying "We are not Swedes, nor can we be Russians,
let us therefore be Finns."

This would never have happened had we been an integral part of
the Swedish Empire/Kingdom.

And another from Bj�rn Felten:

Date: 10-24-13 19:28 Message #: 207205 HAM-BOX
From: Bj�rn Felten Status: PUBLIC
To: Tommi Koivula Ref #: 0
Subject: Language Conf: FidoN SYSOP (23)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

And, let it be known, the Swedish they speak in �land is the most
genuine Swedish in the world. Here in Sweden we've bastardized our
language beyond recognition -- �landish is almost perfect Swedish.


Have a nice day,

Holger


.. Old immortals don't die, they just... don't.
-- MR/2 2.30


--- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 2
* Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228)

Hello Holger,

My BBS works on GMT +3 hours when on summer time. Otherwise GMT +2 hrs.

So the difference between us is 3 hours, right?

Correct.

And I still doubt if that is really correct?

The problem lies in the difference of UTC, GMT and summertime BST in the UK,
NL and your country.
In winter UTC=GMT right?
In summer DST=+01:00 DST = Daylight Saving Time
In summer BST=GMT + DST right? BST = British Summer Time
DST is preferred above BST, becaus we are not all Britisch,
that's why they are leaving us, they live in their own world ;-)

Western Europe is UTC +00:00 in winter and UTC +01:00 in summer
Middle Europe is UTC +01:00 in winter and UTC +02:00 in summer.
Eastern Europ is UTC +02:00 in winter and UTC +03:00 in summer.
In summer all three added +01:00 for DST above that time difference.
So I think our time difference is only 01:00 hour, right?
But only if whe change summertime DST at the same date and time,
if not the same moment of changing, it makes it more difficult!
Some have to think twice to understand that ;-).
We normally change times at the last Sunday of March at 02:00 local time
and the last sunday of October at 03:00 local time each year.
Hopefuly this ends in the near future, i.e. 2023?

I think I was misleaded because of the travelling time of the message I looked at, sorry for that.
I discovered the first message I saw a difference of three hours.
But lateron another message from you travelled five hours to me.
Huh?, our time difference must be smaller that 3 or 5 hours.
So then I start thinking again about our time difference and made this
message to clear it up. Sometimes it only helps to write it out.
Our distance in time is much closer than we both think ;-).
The point is where does that extra time travel come from?
Msg's are waiting somewhere between you and my host,
as he normally delivers everything to his downlinks when it arrives him,
in only seconds or minutes, and mostly not hours.
But it does not hurt, I was only suprised, so the time question arose.

Greetings from Henri.

---
* Origin: Computing Apart Together (2:280/1208)

In a message on 06-07-19 Henri Derksen said to Holger Granholm:

Hello Hanri,

So the difference between us is 3 hours, right?

Correct.

And I still doubt if that is really correct?

Western Europe is UTC +00:00 in winter and UTC +01:00 in summer
Middle Europe is UTC +01:00 in winter and UTC +02:00 in summer.
Eastern Europ is UTC +02:00 in winter and UTC +03:00 in summer.

Regrettably Finland, including the selfgoverning �land Islands, has
chosen to use the Eastern European time zone even though it's not
correct as compared to astronomical time.

Estonia and the other baltic countries are in the same time zone.

Like it or not, that's the fact and even though all above countries are
EU members. All countries within the EU, including the GB, do change to
summer time and normal time on the same date and time.


Have a nice day,

Holger


.. "Sam", OH0NC - Aland Islands / 20 deg. E / 60 deg. N
-- MR/2 2.30


--- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 2
* Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228)

Hello Holger,

So the difference between us is 3 hours, right?

Correct.

And I still doubt if that is really correct?

Western Europe is UTC +00:00 in winter and UTC +01:00 in summer
Middle Europe is UTC +01:00 in winter and UTC +02:00 in summer.
Eastern Europ is UTC +02:00 in winter and UTC +03:00 in summer.

Regrettably Finland, including the selfgoverning �land Islands, has
chosen to use the Eastern European time zone even though it's not
correct as compared to astronomical time.

Ok, but then still the difference should be one hour, not three!
There must be some hick in the mail transport path between you and me.

Estonia and the other baltic countries are in the same time zone.

ok

Like it or not, that's the fact and even though all above countries are
EU members. All countries within the EU, including the GB, do change to summer time and normal time on the same date and time.

Ok, that the less difficult path then.

Have a nice day,

Same to you.

Henri.

---
* Origin: Computing Apart Together (2:280/1208)

In a message on 06-13-19 Henri Derksen said to Holger Granholm:

Good evening Henri,

Regrettably Finland, including the selfgoverning �land Islands, has
chosen to use the Eastern European time zone .....

Ok, but then still the difference should be one hour, not three!
There must be some hick in the mail transport path between you and
me.

Well, I suppose you are on summer time like the rest of EU.
As we are on EEST the difference to GMT (UTC) is three hours, whatever
your time zone is.

This BBS runs on local time, EEST at the moment, and outgoing mail is
dated at the time I upload it to the BBS.


Have a good night,

Holger


.. Security-wise, NT is a server with a "Kick-me" sign on it
-- MR/2 2.30


--- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 2
* Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228)

Hello Holger,

Regrettably Finland, including the selfgoverning �land Islands, has
chosen to use the Eastern European time zone .....

Ok, but then still the difference should be one hour, not three!
There must be some hick in the mail transport path between you and
me.

Well, I suppose you are on summer time like the rest of EU.

Yes, MEST

As we are on EEST the difference to GMT (UTC) is three hours, whatever
your time zone is.

Right, but I was stil talking about the difference between us,
not referred to GMT/UTC.
As the diff between EEST and MEST (i.e. between us) is one hour,
and your msg travels about 3h to me,
there must be a hickage somewhere in between,
that is the point I want to make all the time.

This BBS runs on local time,

Mine too, MEST now.

EEST at the moment, and outgoing mail is
dated at the time I upload it to the BBS.

And here at the moment I close the writing stage at the BBS, i.e. Ctrl Z.

Henri.

---
* Origin: Default is your fault, take UniCorn BBS (2:280/1208)

On 2019 Jun 15 16:29:00, you wrote to Holger Granholm:

As the diff between EEST and MEST (i.e. between us) is one hour,
and your msg travels about 3h to me,
there must be a hickage somewhere in between,
that is the point I want to make all the time.

you should check the PATH line of those messages and see if you can determine where it is... it is possible that some system(s) are running scheduled mail processing instead of ASAP processing...

@PATH: 280/1208 5003 221/1 640/1384 3634/12

FWIW: your post i'm responding to took this path to my system... it took ~3 days to arrive here but i don't know if the times have been normalized to my timezone... if they have, that shouldn't change the days...

!MSGID: 2:280/1208@FidoNet 53103691
!REPLY: 2:20/228 0148e1cb
!PID: FM 2.02

Msgbase : /home/myuser/fido/msgBase/fido/backbone/sysops/fn_sysop Signature : JAM
Revision : 1
ReservedWord : 0
SubfieldLen : 462
TimesRead : 1
MSGIDcrc : 64F11482h
REPLYcrc : B513E131h
ReplyTo : 27106
Reply1st : 27109
ReplyNext : 0
DateWritten : 2019-06-15 16:29:00 (5D051CCCh)
DateReceived : 1970-01-01 00:00:00 (00000000h)
DateProcessed : 2019-06-18 09:25:02 (5D08ADEEh)
MessageNumber : 27108
Attribute : 01000000h (00000001000000000000000000000000b)
Attribute2 : 00000000h (00000000000000000000000000000000b)
Offset : 24546466
TxtLen : 1054
PasswordCRC : FFFFFFFFh
Cost : 0

i also note that the above TimesRead counter is wrong... i accessed/read the message several times while writing this post and going back to gather the above data... by my manual count, golded should have increased the counter to at least 4 or 5 by the time i finish writing this message... looks like a bug in golded or in the message library it uses...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... Good listeners usually make more sales than good talkers.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

hello mark,

On 2019 Jun 15 16:29:00, you wrote to Holger Granholm:

As the diff between EEST and MEST (i.e. between us) is one hour,
and your msg travels about 3h to me,
there must be a hickage somewhere in between,
that is the point I want to make all the time.

you should check the PATH line of those messages and see if you can determine where it is...

thanks for the hint.

it is possible that some system(s) are running scheduled mail processing instead of ASAP processing...

yes, mine machines f.i.

@PATH: 280/1208 5003 221/1 640/1384 3634/12

but that is the route from me to Holger.
I wanted to know what happened with the msg from Holger to me,
that's the other way round.

FWIW: your post i'm responding to took this path to my system...
it took ~3 days to arrive here

That's my fault, I do not have the time every day to convert the outgoing
mail from my old Pots FD 2.02 dos mailer machine to my new !RISC OS !ROSBink
IP mailer machine (RBerry Pi 1B2).

but i don't know if the times have been normalized to my timezone...
if they have, that shouldn't change the days...

the times and days are right.
it indeed took more days after writing before transmitting.

!MSGID: 2:280/1208@FidoNet 53103691
!REPLY: 2:20/228 0148e1cb
!PID: FM 2.02

yes that's my editor.

DateWritten : 2019-06-15 16:29:00 (5D051CCCh)

right

DateReceived : 1970-01-01 00:00:00 (00000000h)
DateProcessed : 2019-06-18 09:25:02 (5D08ADEEh)

considering our time difference that could be possible.
i'll show you the logfile:

-- 18-06-2019.15:14:12 -- INCOMING
15:14:12 1 + Connection accepted (84.106.166.51)
15:14:12 3 > M_NUL OPT CRAM-MD5-947e929fde5a6054122c7a5647e765fe
15:14:12 3 > M_NUL SYS unicornbbs.demon.nl
15:14:12 3 > M_NUL ZYZ Henri Derksen
15:14:12 3 > M_NUL LOC Arnhem.NL
15:14:12 3 > M_NUL NDL 57600,CM,XA,IBN,BINKP,V34,Z19,U,ENC
15:14:12 3 > M_NUL TIME Tue, 18 Jun 2019 15:14:12 +0200
15:14:12 3 > M_NUL VER ROSBink/1.34.4/RISC-OS binkp/1.1
15:14:12 3 > M_ADR 77:8500/504@aconet 2:280/1208@fidonet
15:14:12 3 < M_NUL SYS Double Dutch
15:14:12 3 < M_NUL ZYZ Kees Van Eeten
15:14:12 3 < M_NUL LOC Heerhugowaard, The Netherlands
15:14:12 3 < M_NUL NDL 115200,TCP,BINKP
15:14:12 3 < M_NUL TIME Tue, 18 Jun 2019 15:14:10 +0200
15:14:12 3 < M_NUL VER binkd/1.1a-96/Linux binkp/1.1
15:14:12 3 < M_ADR 2:280/5003@fidonet 2:280/0@fidonet
15:14:12 3 < M_NUL OPT NDA EXTCMD CRYPT GZ BZ2
15:14:12 3 < M_NUL TRF 1014 0
15:14:12 3 < M_PWD CRAM-MD5-d81b92a52ea683f99490342d318d4988
15:14:12 3 > M_OK secure (MD5)
15:14:12 5 > M_FILE 5610A366.TU1 1176 1560868012 0
15:14:13 5 < M_FILE 8fcd4cba.pkt 1014 1560863641 0
15:14:13 5 > M_EOB
15:14:14 5 > M_GOT 8fcd4cba.pkt 1014 1560863641
15:14:14 5 < M_GOT 5610A366.TU1 1176 1560868012
15:14:14 5 + M_GOT: file '5610A366.TU1' sent
15:14:14 5 + Transfer completed (tx/rx = 1/1 eobTx/eobRx = 4/2)

That is the local date and time that echomailpackeage went away here.

i also note that the above TimesRead counter is wrong... i accessed/read the message several times while writing this post and going back to
gather the above data... by my manual count, golded should have
increased the counter to at least 4 or 5 by the time i finish writing
this message... looks like a bug in golded or in the message library it uses...

I see.

Henri.

---
* Origin: Computing Apart Together (2:280/1208)

On 2019 Jun 20 01:10:00, you wrote to me:

As the diff between EEST and MEST (i.e. between us) is one hour, and
your msg travels about 3h to me, there must be a hickage somewhere
in between, that is the point I want to make all the time.

you should check the PATH line of those messages and see if you can
determine where it is...

thanks for the hint.

you are welcome... it is one use of the path line ;)

@PATH: 280/1208 5003 221/1 640/1384 3634/12

but that is the route from me to Holger.

no, that's a path from you to me ;)

I wanted to know what happened with the msg from Holger to me, that's
the other way round.

right... so go to holger's message and look at the path there...

FWIW: your post i'm responding to took this path to my system... it
took ~3 days to arrive here

That's my fault,

oh, ok... i thought there might have been a similar exhibition of the delay you mentioned between you and holger... remember that he has limited connectivity to his upstream feed(s)...

I do not have the time every day to convert the outgoing mail from my
old Pots FD 2.02 dos mailer machine to my new !RISC OS !ROSBink IP
mailer machine (RBerry Pi 1B2).

if they both have mailers... oh nvm...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... A good pun is its own reword.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)