Björn wrote (2021-01-30):

I'm sure the cause of this (supposed) fact is all the fault of the
USA too, right?

Not all, but with a population of 4% and responsible for 20% of all pollution, you are unproportionally responsible, yes.

If the other 96% would raise their pollution levels to the same amount, we would be at 5000%. Growth is good, right?

---
* Origin: . (2:280/464.47)

Growth is good, right?

Absolutely. Endless growth is the Ponzi scheme that capitalism relies upon. Enormous wealth to everybody. Yeah!



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Bj�rn,

On Saturday January 30 2021 10:19, you wrote to Oli:

Growth is good, right?

Absolutely. Endless growth is the Ponzi scheme that capitalism
relies upon. Enormous wealth to everybody. Yeah!

I have always wondered how people can beleive that a system that relies on continues growth can have a long term future...


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Does that opportunity exist for you Euro-commies?

Well, IKEA founder Swedish Ingvar Kamprad (now dead) was the fifth richest man in the world. Does that answer your stupid, ignorant question?

Does your inferior educational system not teach you the difference between socialism and communism -- or do you still have the same old McCarthyism with the same commie scare?

Socialism = slavery, eh?


..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Bj�rn Felten wrote to Michiel van der Vlist <=-

A lot of people have not been taught critical thinking at school.
They believe everything they are being told. Inject bleach or stick a
UV light up your ass to cure you from COVID-19, the election was
rigged, USA is a democracy (blissfully unaware of Gerrymandering and Electoral College) and so on.

Two experiences that I benefited from was 1) a critical thinking class in college that included a debate piece as well as dissecting various attempts
to manipulate the reader, the Skeptic's board (a BBS in the San Francisco
Bay Area) in the 1990s, and the old Fido SKEPTIC echo.

There's a lot to be said for questioning claims and asking for citations or backup - that shows the true basis of the claim. Too many debates online
fall into buckets similar to these.

1. The claimant has a solid reference backing up their claim.

2. The claimant cites an obscure web source that either validates a portion
of their claim, doesn't validate it at all (and they expect you not to read it!)

3. The claimant states that their claim is so prevalent that it doesn't require validation - or they claim that there are so many citations out
there that they leave the proof of their claim up to you.

or

4. (insert organization here) is in bed with mainstream media, and since you don't read the same web sites the claimant does, you're ill-informed.


It's gotten pretty predictable.





... Back in the stream that feeds the ocean that feeds the stream.
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

Very well analysed, Kurt!

3. The claimant states that their claim is so prevalent that it doesn't require validation - or they claim that there are so many citations out there that they leave the proof of their claim up to you.

Hmmm... A certain, former POTUS I know of was a master of this, using it hundreds of times.



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

4. (insert organization here) is in bed with mainstream media, and since you don't read the same web sites the claimant does, you're ill-informed.

... and of course this too. FAKE NEWS!!!



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Dan wrote (2021-01-30):

I won't continue to respond to your posts

brilliant idea

---
* Origin: . (2:280/464.47)

Dan wrote (2021-01-31):

I won't continue to respond to your posts

then don't

---
* Origin: . (2:280/464.47)

loves to snip relevant context

That's right, with emphasis on *relevant*. Snipping out only the relevant part of a comment is called quote trimming, as opposed to excessive quoting -- some people even quotes the entire message.

Every fido editor developed after 17 December 1971 (when FTS-9 was introduced) should be able of comment linking for the benefit of those who can't even remember what they wrote only a few days ago.



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Björn,

loves to snip relevant context

That's right, with emphasis on *relevant*. Snipping out only the relevant part of a comment is called quote trimming, as opposed to excessive quoting
-- some people even quotes the entire message.

A man acting as his own lawyer has a fool for a client.

Every fido editor developed after 17 December 1971 (when FTS-9 was introduced) should be able of comment linking for the benefit of those who can't even remember what they wrote only a few days ago.

That may be. But how relevant is that in this day and age?
We have a man here in the USA, a former president, who is about
to be put on trial for "high crimes and misdemeanors", which
if conviced may mean the end of his political career. And what
has he done? He fired all five of his lawyers, just before the
trial is to begin. So who did he hire? Himself! You think I am
making this up? I do admit to have somewhat of an overactive
imagination at times, but this is something else!

Trump to Defend Self After Receiving Law Degree from Trump University

PALM BEACH (The Borowitz Report)—Donald J. Trump will act as his own
defense attorney at his impeachment trial after receiving a law degree
from Trump University.

Trump bestowed the degree upon himself in his capacity as the dean of
the Trump University School of Law, where he graduated first in his
class.

In his first official statement as the lead attorney of his defense
team, Trump vowed not to quit the team “like those other losers.”

Davis Logsdon, a law professor at the University of Minnesota, called
Trump’s new status as his own attorney “problematic.”

“It’s true that he will now have a fool for a client, but that was
also true of his other attorneys,” Logsdon said. “One downside of
working for himself, however, is that he definitely will not get paid.”

https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/trump-to-defend-self -after-receiving-law-degree-from-trump-university


Let's see Dan C. top that!

--Lee

--
Probably the best beer in the world

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Davis Logsdon, a law professor at the University of Minnesota, called Trump’s new status as his own attorney “problematic.”

A search for Mr. Davis for the last seven days on the Washington Post website gave no hits.

Are you sure this is not Fake News?



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Rob wrote (2021-01-31):

Re: Global warming
By: Björn Felten to Dan Clough on Sun Jan 31 2021 05:11 pm

Every fido editor developed after 17 December 1971 (when FTS-9 was
introduced) should be able of comment linking for the benefit of
those who can't even remember what they wrote only a few days ago.

That date is a joke, right?

I thought so too, but it also could be a typo. The correct date would be 17 December 1991. Still 29+ years.

---
* Origin: . (2:280/464.47)

That date is a joke, right?

LOL! Rather a typo. Good catch!

MSGID / REPLY
A standard for unique message identifiers
and reply chain linkage

17 December, 1991





..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

That date is a joke, right?

LOL! Rather a typo. Good catch!

It was so obvious I didn't ever bother to respond.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Dec.21 2020
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

That date is a joke, right?

I thought so too, but it also could be a typo. The correct date would be
17 December 1991. Still 29+ years.

Substituting one typo for another?

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Dec.21 2020
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello Bj�rn,

That date is a joke, right?

LOL! Rather a typo. Good catch!

MSGID / REPLY
A standard for unique message identifiers
and reply chain linkage

17 December, 1991

Yeah. I get that. And it is funny. Stuff like that does happen.
But this particular date is also signifincant in other ways.

The date you cited - 17 December 1971

What happened on that day in history?
Radio Bangladesh begins transmitting.

So was it really a typo?
Or is it something that you don't want to tell us?

Did Fidonet really begin, at a secret location, in Bangladesh?
With Tom Jennings providing cover in San Francisco, USA?

The only thing of real importance I could find was Honky Dory,
the album released by David Bowie on that date, after his album
from 1970, The Man Who Sold the World.

A truly great artist, he is still missed by many on this planet,
and beyond.

Of course, others have chimed in, suggesting the correct
date should have been 17 December, 1991.

What happeed on that day in history?
Cleveland Cavaliers beat Miami Heat 148-80, by 68 points.
This was the NBA's most lopsided game in history.

Then I started thinking it was only the year you were confused
about. Not so much the date itself. So I took a looksee to find
out what is so special about that certain day of the year.

And lo and behold, lookee at what I found -

EVENTS

17 December 1790 - discovery of the Aztec calendar stone
17 December 1903 - first flight of the Wright flyer
17 December 1989 - first episode of The Simpsons aired

BIRTHDAYS

17 December 1978 - Manny Pacquiao
17 December 1936 - Pope Francis
17 December 1770 - Ludwig van Beethoven

DEATHS

17 December 2011 - Kim Jong II
17 December 2010 - Captain Beefheart
17 December 1933 - 13th Dalai Lama
17 December 1830 - Simon Bolivar
17 December 1273 - Rumi

--Lee

--
Get Her Wet Here

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

On 30/01/2021 09:04, 1123/115 wrote:

I'm sure the cause of this (supposed) fact is all the fault of the USA too, right?

Surely a three metre thick ice covering over USA wouldn't be anyone else's fault?

How about a reference/citation to the source of this info?

(Taking bets that it comes from some leftist-propaganda rag).

ROFL

Definition of Unbiased News : News that agrees with my opinion.

--
Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi
* Origin: Goombungee, QLD, Oz (3:640/305)

On 31/01/2021 02:18, 2203/2 wrote:

   Does your inferior educational system not teach you the difference between socialism and communism -- or do you still have the same old McCarthyism with the same commie scare?

   Socialism = slavery, eh?

I see Biden is trying to increase the minimum wage in USA. The current one is little better than slavery.

--
Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi
* Origin: Goombungee, QLD, Oz (3:640/305)

On 1/02/2021 00:22, 1123/115 wrote:

Another typical Lib tactic, very common, and very deceitful.

ROFL.

--
Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi
* Origin: Goombungee, QLD, Oz (3:640/305)

On 1/02/2021 00:23, 1123/115 wrote:

Oli wrote to Dan Clough <=-

 DC>> I won't continue to respond to your posts

 Ol>> brilliant idea

Another context-snipper.  Maybe you're another of Bj?rn's
sock-puppets?

Hey Oli.  FOAD.

That's right, attack the messenger, not the message.

--
Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi
* Origin: Goombungee, QLD, Oz (3:640/305)

That's right, attack the messenger, not the message.

Another typical Clough tactic, very common, and very deceitful.





..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello David,

Does your inferior educational system not teach you the difference
between socialism and communism -- or do you still have the same old
McCarthyism with the same commie scare?

Socialism = slavery, eh?

I see Biden is trying to increase the minimum wage in USA. The current one is little better than slavery.

Louisiana has no minimum wage. Neither does Sweden.
What does Australia pretend to have?

--Lee

--
Not my president!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hi! Oli,

On 02/02/2021 05:17 PM, you wrote to David Drummond:

That's right, attack the messenger, not the message.

I'll attack the mail software

--
Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0)

Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi

* Origin: Goombungee, QLD, Oz (3:640/305)

If you are using Thunderbird + JamNNTPd, why is there no TZUTC kludge? Outdated version of JamNNTPd?

When I had a Windows JamNNTPd server running in Windows 98SE, it never quoted the correct value all year. It would insert a DST value when we never observed that aberration. So, I turned off that option.

Perhaps he has the same trouble?[shrug]

How's mine? (I'll see after it's sent...)

Cheers,
Paul.

--- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0
* Origin: If it itches, it will be scratched. (3:640/1384.125)

Paul wrote (2021-02-02):

If you are using Thunderbird + JamNNTPd, why is there no TZUTC
kludge? Outdated version of JamNNTPd?

When I had a Windows JamNNTPd server running in Windows 98SE, it never quoted the correct value all year. It would insert a DST value when we never observed that aberration. So, I turned off that option.

Perhaps he has the same trouble?[shrug]

How's mine? (I'll see after it's sent...)

Looks good, your mail is not from the future. Time is displayed as 08:43 (my local time is 08:54).

---
* Origin: . (2:280/464.47)

If you are using Thunderbird + JamNNTPd, why is there no TZUTC kludge? Outdated version of JamNNTPd?

There's really no need for that kludge when using Thunderbird, it takes care of that without the need for a fido kludge. This is what it looks like in the message you are quoting:

Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 06:27:40 GMT

Displays perfectly here as 07:27 (I too has local time UTC+1).



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

It would insert a DST value when we never observed that aberration.

Lucky you! When Sweden reintroduced DST in the mid 1980s almost everyone objected. Not only was it an unnecessary work going around, setting all clocks and watches twice a year, it even caused problems for the dairy farmers who never managed to teach their cows to change their milking time.

A couple of years ago EU tried to tell the member states to abandon this shite, but the various countries cannot agree upon using summertime or wintertime, so the decree is still not implemented. :(


..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hi! Oli,

On 02 Feb 2021, Oli said the following...

@TZUTC: 0100

How's mine? (I'll see after it's sent...)

Looks good, your mail is not from the future. Time is displayed as 08:43 (my local time is 08:54).

Yes. It's displaying your local time for when I launched the note at my end. It was 17:43 AEST here. Your 9 hour difference shows.

Apologies if I'm telling you something already known to you.

Cheers,
Paul.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/32)
* Origin: Paul's Pile of Polygonal Pebbles (3:640/1138)

Hiya!

On 02 Feb 2021, Bj�rn Felten said the following...

Lucky you! When Sweden reintroduced DST in the mid 1980s almost everyone objected. Not only was it an unnecessary work going around, setting all clocks and watches twice a year, it even caused problems for the dairy farmers who never managed to teach their cows to change their milking time.

The going joke here was the curtains faded mode rapidly. We have three
states and an island state that toy with their time pieces twice a year, minimum. Oh, the fun!

My sister who lives in Adelaide (South Australia) is normally a half-hour behind Queensland (my loc.) but DST puts her a half-hour ahead in summer. Hardly normal, hey. I love 'listenin'g to her mental gyrations when she
calls me. ;)

Cheers,
Paul.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/32)
* Origin: Quinn's Rock - stuck in another Linux VM, again! (3:640/1384)

On 2/02/2021 13:44, 2203/2 wrote:

 BF>>> Socialism = slavery, eh?

 DD>> I see Biden is trying to increase the minimum wage in USA. The

current one

 DD>> is little better than slavery.

Louisiana has no minimum wage. Neither does Sweden.
What does Australia pretend to have?

Australia does have a "national minimum wage", although I have never been employed here at that level.

A quick Google (yes, Google still works in Aus but I don't know for how much longer) shows:

"As of 1 July 2020 the national minimum wage is $19.84 per hour or $753.80 per week. Employees covered by an award or registered agreement are entitled to the minimum pay rates, including penalty rates and allowances in their award or agreement. These pay rates may be higher than the National Minimum Wage."

My calculator tells me that this is for a 38 hour week. That makes a little over $39,000 per annum. They would have to pay income tax on 21K of that.

My Government funded old age pension pays me a little over $11.00 per hour (weekly total amount/38). I do not pay any tax on that. I get lots of pensioner discounts too.

--
Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi
* Origin: Goombungee, QLD, Oz (3:640/305)

On 2/02/2021 17:17, 2280/464.47 wrote:

 DD>> That's right, attack the messenger, not the message.

I'll attack the mail software

 DD>> --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0)

Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi

 DD>>   * Origin: Goombungee, QLD, Oz (3:640/305)

If you are using Thunderbird + JamNNTPd, why is there no TZUTC kludge?

Do I need one of those, or is it just more clutter to compensate for my diminutive genitalia?

Outdated version of JamNNTPd?

Still seems to send/receive message OK.

--
Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi
* Origin: Goombungee, QLD, Oz (3:640/305)

On 2/02/2021 17:43, 3640/1384.125 wrote:

; If you are using Thunderbird + JamNNTPd, why is there no TZUTC kludge?
; Outdated version of JamNNTPd?

When I had a Windows JamNNTPd server running in Windows 98SE, it never quoted the correct value all year.  It would insert a DST value when we never observed that aberration.  So, I turned off that option.

Perhaps he has the same trouble?[shrug]

It was set up some years ago - I don't remember all of the tweaks that were done to make it "stable".

It it works then don't fix it.

--
Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi
* Origin: Goombungee, QLD, Oz (3:640/305)

On 2/02/2021 18:20, 2203/2 wrote:

; If you are using Thunderbird + JamNNTPd, why is there no TZUTC kludge?
; Outdated version of JamNNTPd?

   There's really no need for that kludge when using Thunderbird, it takes care of that without the need for a fido kludge. This is what it looks like in the message you are quoting:

   Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 06:27:40 GMT

   Displays perfectly here as 07:27 (I too has local time UTC+1).

My local time is UTC+10

--
Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi
* Origin: Goombungee, QLD, Oz (3:640/305)

Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 06:27:40 GMT

Displays perfectly here as 07:27 (I too has local time UTC+1).

My local time is UTC+10

So we can conclude that you posted your message at 16:27:40 local time, then. That's half past four in the afternoon for those backward people who still insist on that AM/PM crap... 8-)



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

On 02 Feb 2021, Bj�rn Felten said the following...

Lucky you! When Sweden reintroduced DST in the mid 1980s almost everyone objected. Not only was it an unnecessary work going around, setting all clocks and watches twice a year, it even caused problems for the dairy farmers who never managed to teach their cows to change their milking time.

I have a schedule with my dogs that I'm good with. 3pm Is a time I let the girls outside run around and such. Then one day they started raising a
rucjus at 2pm. It took me several days to realize we had switched to
Standard time from DST but dogs can read a clock, they just think I'm maling them wait longer for their excercise.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: theoasisbbs.ddns.net:1357 (1:106/127)

On 2/02/2021 20:28, 3640/1384 wrote:

 BF>>     Yeah, that sounds like fun. If I remember correctly from the Y2K
 BF>> celebrations you even have a point where three different time zones
 BF>> meet, so with just a few small steps you can time travel back and forth.
 BF>> Right?

Yes.  David has been there, and done that.  I haven't seen the t-shirt, yet.
:)

I used to have a photo on my web page of my ex sitting on the post at Cameron Corner where Qld, NSW and SA meet.

I had the photo captioned "An arse that covers three states". I was not in the good books for a while (cannot imagine why...)


--
Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi
* Origin: Chinchilla, QLD, Oz (3:640/305)

On 2/02/2021 21:12, 2203/2 wrote:

 BF>>>      Displays perfectly here as 07:27 (I too has local time UTC+1).

 DD>> My local time  is UTC+10

   So we can conclude that you posted your message at 16:27:40 local time, then.

Probably - that was several days ago, I don't keep a close track on what I was doing at what time any more.

--
Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi
* Origin: Chinchilla, QLD, Oz (3:640/305)