• Plum book

    From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Dale Shipp on Sun Jul 19 22:17:30 2020
    Hello Dale,

    [..]

    -- no wonder USA is
    best in the world when it comes to spreading the corona
    virus... :(

    That distinction comes from the top and the lack of leadership there.

    I beg to differ. The Trump administration has been the most pro-virus
    team on the face of this planet. Just look at the results. No where
    else can the virus run wild and free as the USA. And I mean no where.

    --Lee

    --
    Pay your taxes!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Dale Shipp on Tue Jul 21 02:28:54 2020
    As I said before to you, the career civil servents cannot be fired on a whim -- it takes serious charges to do so.

    I remember that. But I didn't know about your Plum Book. How much down from the top does it grasp. What if, for instance the POTUS where to appoint the highest AG with a new one (Barr) that *could* fire any state AG in the middle of an investigation against the president?

    Wouldn't that sound almost like... yeah... like fascism?

    Methinks you have a severe problem with your constitution, and it's the Bunker Boy that should make you aware of it. Please proceed with care before it's to late...


    ..

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  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Dale Shipp on Tue Jul 21 11:46:16 2020
    Hello Dale,

    On Tuesday July 21 2020 00:34, you wrote to Bj”Rn Felten:

    I think that the USA constitution is doing just fine, in spite of how
    it is getting strained lately. After all it has lasted intact more
    than almost any other country's constitution.

    Because it is impossible to change it and adding amendments is vey difficult. When push comes to shove that rigidity may turn out to be a weakness. It can not be adapted to a rapidly changing world.

    A basic weakness of democracy is that it can turn itself into a dictatoship if that is what the majority wants. You (plural) keep saying that in the US there are checks and balances that prevent that. I do not share your confidence. On the contrary, I wonder if that accident in slow motion isn't exactly what we are watching right now... :(

    And no, I am not saying it can not happen here....


    Cheers, Michiel

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  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Michiel van der Vlist on Tue Jul 21 07:41:00 2020
    Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Dale Shipp <=-

    I think that the USA constitution is doing just fine, in spite of how
    it is getting strained lately. After all it has lasted intact more
    than almost any other country's constitution.

    Because it is impossible to change it and adding amendments is
    vey difficult.

    Very contradictory "sentence" there. Is it *impossible* to
    change, or is it *very difficult* to change? You do know that an
    amendment is a change, right?

    When push comes to shove that rigidity may turn out to be a weakness.
    It can not be adapted to a rapidly changing world.

    Another incorrect statement. It has been adapted 27 times to a
    changing world.

    A basic weakness of democracy is that it can turn itself into a dictatoship if that is what the majority wants. You (plural) keep
    saying that in the US there are checks and balances that prevent
    that.

    Very true (the checks and balances). Also, the USA is technically
    not a democracy. It is a constitutional republic. Yes, there is
    a difference.


    ... A day without sunshine is like night.
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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Wed Jul 22 12:43:34 2020
    Hello Bj”rn,

    You say "I beg to differ" and then you agree with what I said.
    Was up with that?

    Oh, c'mon. Was my impersonation of Trump really that bad?

    Well, I for one would give you a 3 out 10. That means that your sarcasm went
    over the heads of 70% of the listeners.

    Sarcasm? What sarcasm? Impersonating the most famous person in
    the world is a *huge* compliment! Just think of the accolades one
    receives for having done it well! Don't believe me? Just ask
    Rich Little, the man of a thousand voices. His legion of fans
    will tell you. And do you know who his biggest supporter is?
    Yep. You guessed it. The Man himself, Donald Trump!

    Of course, typing messages on screen is not quite the same
    thing as ranting like a madman, and I do not pretend to have
    a thousand voices like Rich Little, but still ...

    --Lee

    --
    If it doesn't get all over the place, it doesn't belong in your face.

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dale Shipp on Thu Jul 23 01:08:30 2020
    Actually, I know far less of your government than you and most Europeans know about the USA government. I know more about the British Government than that of other European countries, probably because I lived there
    for three years.

    England is not Europe. They are nothing else but an island which due to continental drift is moving towards the USA or Canada.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - July 1 2020
    * Origin: Black Olives Matter (2:292/854)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Thu Jul 23 02:51:06 2020
    Hello Bj”rn,

    MvdV>> And no, I am not saying it can not happen here....

    I second that (here in Sweden). It's so easy to topple a government without
    even firing a single shot. :(

    Hitler did it. Although the Reichstag did go up in flames ...

    --Lee

    --
    The more you play with it the harder it gets

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Michiel van der Vlist on Thu Jul 23 02:51:12 2020
    Hello Michiel,

    I think that the USA constitution is doing just fine, in spite of how
    it is getting strained lately. After all it has lasted intact more
    than almost any other country's constitution.

    MvdV> Because it is impossible to change it and adding amendments is vey
    MvdV> difficult.

    That is not completely true. While amendments are part of the
    US Constitution, it is possible to change it by having a constitutional convention. The way that works is delegates get rid of the old and
    bring in the new. The new constitution would replace the old upon
    ratification by the states.

    MvdV> When push comes to shove that rigidity may turn out to be a weakness. It can
    MvdV> not be adapted to a rapidly changing world.

    The US Constitution has been amended 27 times to date. While it is
    a difficult and time-consuming process, it is possible to add more.

    MvdV> A basic weakness of democracy is that it can turn itself into a dictatoship
    MvdV> if that is what the majority wants. You (plural) keep saying that in the US
    MvdV> there are checks and balances that prevent that. I do not share your
    MvdV> confidence. On the contrary, I wonder if that accident in slow motion isn't
    MvdV> exactly what we are watching right now... :(

    The problem with democracies is its reliance on norms, not laws or institutions, to keep things going. As long as all political actors
    have absorbed the norms that make things work, all is fine. But with
    a madman in charge, with his lackeys enabling his every move, along
    with a compliant news media, all bets are off.

    MvdV> And no, I am not saying it can not happen here....

    Democracies are very fragile. Especially when a madman is in charge.

    --Lee

    --
    The more you play with it the harder it gets

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Dan Clough on Thu Jul 23 02:51:20 2020
    Hello Dan,

    I think that the USA constitution is doing just fine, in spite of how
    it is getting strained lately. After all it has lasted intact more
    than almost any other country's constitution.

    Because it is impossible to change it and adding amendments is
    vey difficult.

    Very contradictory "sentence" there. Is it *impossible* to
    change, or is it *very difficult* to change? You do know that an amendment is a change, right?

    Amendments are part of the US Contitution, dimwit.

    --Lee

    --
    Every Bottom Needs A Top

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Dale Shipp on Thu Jul 23 02:51:26 2020
    Hello Dale,

    I think that the USA constitution is doing just fine, in spite of how
    it is getting strained lately. After all it has lasted intact more
    than almost any other country's constitution.

    MVDV>> Because it is impossible to change it and adding amendments
    MVDV>> is vey difficult. When push comes to shove that rigidity
    MVDV>> may turn out to be a weakness. It can not be adapted to a
    MVDV>> rapidly changing world.

    That was done by intent of the founding fathers. They wanted something that
    might stand the test of time.

    The framers of the US Constitution wanted something that would
    protect their own vested interests, including ownership of slaves.
    They were totally unconcerned about women, black folks, or anybody
    under age 25. And lets not get into what they thought about who
    were gay, lesbian, or transgender. These were old white folks who
    owned property (slaves) and would never give up what they had.

    MVDV>> A basic weakness of democracy is that it can turn itself
    MVDV>> into a dictatoship if that is what the majority wants. You

    And that is why the USA is not a "pure" democracy, but has three
    branches of government which are supposed to be co-equal and which are supposed to act as checks and balances against abuse of power by any one branch.

    All democracies have fascist tendencies. Including the USA. All
    democracies are also fragile, not taking much to go rogue. It is
    a concept that is very difficult to keep and maintain, and easily
    lost if care is not taken to protect what exists.

    Germany had a democracy, and lost it through legal means, giving
    the world Adolf Hitler and his National Socialists. Argentina had
    a democracy, and lost it through legal means, giving the world
    Juan Peron and his lovely wife, Evita. Brazil claims to have a
    democracy, but has actually lost it with their current president.

    I would hate to find out what the USA will become if Donald Trump
    remains POTUS after the election in November. Maybe he will not
    concede, and just remain there forever, like an orange stain, and
    claim the election was rigged.

    That is the fatal flaw in the US Constitution (and all other
    constitutions of democratic states). One thing the framers of
    the Constitution did not think about was how to secure the
    peaceful transition of power. Ditto with all other constitutions
    around the world. Nobody was smart enough to figure out how to
    do that. Everybody assumed it's going to happen. An incumbent
    loses, then steps down from office, allowing the winner to take
    office. But what if some dingbat loses, but refuses to concede,
    choosing to remain?

    MVDV>> (plural) keep saying that in the US there are checks and
    MVDV>> balances that prevent that. I do not share your confidence.
    MVDV>> On the contrary, I wonder if that accident in slow motion
    MVDV>> isn't exactly what we are watching right now... :(

    I certainly hope that does not happen, but that the USA gets pulled back from the brink by the next election.

    How? President Trump has already said he would not concede, even
    if it is shown he has clearly lost on election night. What then?
    Rather than a stolen election, we would be left with an election
    with no result. A president who has lost, according to the polls,
    but not willing to concede. There is no mechanism in our vaunted
    US Constitution to make him leave. None whatsoever.

    MVDV>> And no, I am not saying it can not happen here....

    Actually, I know far less of your government than you and most Europeans know about the USA government.

    European countries have the same problem as the USA. The one
    thing they do not secure is the peaceful succession of power.

    I know more about the British Government than that of other European countries, probably because I lived there for three years.

    That may be, but the British also have the same problem, even with
    an unwritten constitution.

    According to Lawrence Douglas, all democratic systems assume that
    political actors (Donald Trump, Boris Johnson, etc.) have absorbed
    whatever norms there are that make the system work. But what if you
    have a crazy man in office who ignores the norms, and you have a
    party that also ignores the norms, that facilitates the rejection
    of those norms, and if you have a news media that is fractured (real
    news vs fake news) that rewards the president for rejecting those
    norms, you're in a very dangerous situation.

    There is only one way out of this. The only way out is not to go
    there. But what if we are already there? What if we no longer have
    a way out? The president is no longer putting up a fight to win
    the coming presidential election because he knows there is no way
    possible for him to win. Just not enough votes out there for him.
    So what has he chosen to do? Since we have to have an election,
    and federal law forbids him from postponing it indefintely, he can
    stay by not conceding and refusing to leave.

    Oh. You protest. Joe Biden would be declared the president by the
    news media, and be sworn into office by Justice Roberts. What a pipe
    dream. President Trump would simply claim the election was rigged
    and be sworn into office for a second term by Justice Clarence Thomas.

    See how that works? Not a stolen election, but an election with no
    result. No binding result. Meaning President Donald Trump forever.

    Oh, what a "stable genius" we have with our fine president!

    --Lee

    --
    You're fired, Donald!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Gerrit Kuehn@2:240/12 to Ward Dossche on Thu Jul 23 12:17:44 2020
    Hello Ward!

    23 Jul 20 01:08, Ward Dossche wrote to Dale Shipp:


    England is not Europe.

    This is quite a tautology, being true for any country apart from England itself.

    They are nothing else but an island

    Nope, England is a part of an island (the other parts being Scotland and Wales) which is by the way part of the European continent.


    Regards,
    Gerrit

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    * Origin: And still they come and go (2:240/12)
  • From Gerrit Kuehn@2:240/12 to Ward Dossche on Thu Jul 23 17:33:00 2020
    Hello Ward!

    23 Jul 20 16:54, Ward Dossche wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:

    Nope, England is a part of an island (the other parts being Scotland
    and Wales) which is by the way part of the European continent.

    My fiends in EastAnglia are of a different opinion.

    So they enjoy quibblings. Others don't and adhere to well-established standards.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe#/media/File:Europe_orthographic_Caucasus_ Urals_boundary_(with_borders).svg

    They claim
    EastAnglia is separated from Europe by England. Which would mean that England is not ... part of Europe.

    England as a part of the United Kingdom is (even after Brexit) part of the continent Europe, part of the Council of Europe, part of the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe, part of the European Space Agency and many other European outfits. Put up with it.

    But as stated before, continental drift eventually will take care of
    it

    Says who?

    and the USA will become a kingdom with a monarch and honoring the
    Magna Carta as their constitution..

    Says the happy citizen of just another kingdom...

    A pity we'll be losing Ireland in
    the process probably.

    England was formed from three primeval continents. Can we expect you to hold your breath until everything joined back into a single super-continent?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqjHmtZ9240


    Regards,
    Gerrit

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    * Origin: We are the second generation (2:240/12)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Gerrit Kuehn on Fri Jul 24 17:08:26 2020
    Hello Gerrit,

    England is not Europe.

    This is quite a tautology, being true for any country apart from England itself.

    The British have never considered England as being a part of Europe,
    as the island they live on is not part of the continent.

    The Irish do not consider themselves as being British, and even
    chose to remain neutral during the world wars. And do be sure
    never to insult an Irishman by offering him anything but true and
    authentic Irish coffee.

    They are nothing else but an island

    Nope, England is a part of an island (the other parts being Scotland and Wales) which is by the way part of the European continent.

    It has always been England vs The Continent.

    --Lee

    --
    You're fired, Donald!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Fri Jul 24 17:08:32 2020
    Hello Ward,

    But as stated before, continental drift eventually will take care of it and
    the USA will become a kingdom with a monarch and honoring the Magna Carta as their constitution..

    Nah. Trump's idiot children will teach us all the art of the deal,
    which their stable genius had revealed to them.

    A pity we'll be losing Ireland in the process probably.

    Why? Just think of the positives. No more Troubles.

    --Lee

    --
    I think they bought a Jeep

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to TIM RICHARDSON on Sat Aug 1 10:57:50 2020
    Hello TIM,

    On Friday July 31 2020 20:29, you wrote to DAN CLOUGH:

    Have you heard the term `cancel culture'?

    As in banning TikTok by presidential decree?

    "`Patriot': A person who is willing to defend their country against
    all enemies both foreign and DOMESTIC!"

    The native Americans were willing to defend their country, but unfortunateley they were overrun by barbarians with guns from across the Atlantic..


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Dan Clough on Sun Aug 2 01:32:30 2020
    Hello Dan,

    "`Patriot': A person who is willing to defend their country against
    all enemies both foreign and DOMESTIC!"

    The native Americans were willing to defend their country, but
    unfortunateley they were overrun by barbarians with guns from
    across the Atlantic..

    Yep, they were Patriots.

    Sometimes the Patriots lose.

    Now you know.

    Crazy Horse and White Bull ran wild over Lt. Col. George Custer
    and his five companies of scouts. And that was with bows and arrows.
    Just think what they would have done to the US Army had they had
    real guns.

    --Lee

    --
    Why not enjoy the go?

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to TIM RICHARDSON on Mon Aug 3 12:07:34 2020
    Dan,

    Did you write that yourself ?

    No. I was reading through some stuff I have on a few thumb drives, and realized I have a treasure trove of tagline material. So now, I sometimes add one or two for the `piss-off' value.

    I love some of them ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - July 1 2020
    * Origin: Black Olives Matter (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Lee Lofaso on Mon Aug 3 12:41:32 2020
    MvdV> The native Americans were willing to defend their country, but
    MvdV> unfortunateley they were overrun by barbarians with guns from
    across the Atlantic..

    Didn't work out quite so well for Lt. Col. George Custer when
    he ran into a Crazy Horse and White Bull who refused to move.

    A lot can be said about Custer, many books on the shelf here, many theories.

    One certainty: he got killed.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - July 1 2020
    * Origin: Black Olives Matter (2:292/854)