A very interesting article, in detail explaining how they did it. Could very well become obligatory reading on every military academy.

https://wapo.st/3VqsHpH

I hope it's not behind a pay-wall, if so I have copied the entire page to my own server. It deserves saving.


--
United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

August Abolins -> Bj”rn Felten skrev 2022-12-29 14:22:

https://wapo.st/3VqsHpH

I hope it's not behind a pay-wall, if so I have copied the entire page
to my own server. It deserves saving.

I don't subscribe to the WP but the article seems to be in the
clear.

Thanks August!

--
United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

https://wapo.st/3VqsHpH

Lovely reading, I liked it.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - MidniteSpecial
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

https://wapo.st/3VqsHpH

Lovely reading, I liked it.

Now, if only Sloppy Joe could abandon his standpoint that no western weapons should be able to reach more than 80km. Why not let Ukraine respond in kind to the missiles fired from much longer than that?

Missiles fired from the Black Sea Fleet? Well, even Sweden has naval anti-missiles that can handle that (designed to work against the Orcs in the Baltic Sea).

C'mon now, Sloppy Joe, it's time to no longer cowardly clinging to the sideline and enter the fight. Putin is not as formidable as you think.



--
United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Bj�rn Felten wrote to Ward Dossche <=-

Now, if only Sloppy Joe could abandon his standpoint that no
western weapons should be able to reach more than 80km. Why not
let Ukraine respond in kind to the missiles fired from much
longer than that?

Ukraine is free to respond in any manner that they are able to.

Why is it the USA's problem/obligation to provide them with the means to
do that? Why don't some of you Euro-commie fucks give them what they
need? It is *YOU*, after all, who are geographically close by and need
to keep the Russkies away. Honestly I don't really give a fuck.

Missiles fired from the Black Sea Fleet? Well, even Sweden has
naval anti-missiles that can handle that (designed to work
against the Orcs in the Baltic Sea).

Okay, so let Sweden handle the situation and send the Bears home.

C'mon now, Sloppy Joe, it's time to no longer cowardly
clinging to the sideline and enter the fight. Putin is not as
formidable as you think.

I'm certainly no fan of Joe, but fuck off and provide the support
yourself. It's not our problem.

This whole post is a perfect example of your two-faced-ness. If the USA
*did* get highly involved in this bullshit, *YOU* would be the first to
start screaming that we are trying to empire-build, and that we have no business interfering, and we should keep out of it.... blah, blah, blah.

Fuck all you commie-wannabes.



... Diplomacy is saying 'Nice Doggy' until you find a rock.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Hey Dan,

Why is it the USA's problem/obligation to provide them with the means to
do that? Why don't some of you Euro-commie fucks give them what they
need?

Getting yourself informed about who does what would be a great start ... you should try it one day.

It is *YOU*, after all, who are geographically close by and need
to keep the Russkies away.

The Ruskies from today are not the Ruskies anymore from yonder years ... And you do not have to take my word for it, but this is not a Ukrainian crisis ... it's a global crisis, a test of humanity in its barest essence.

I'm certainly no fan of Joe, but fuck off and provide the support
yourself. It's not our problem.

It "is" your problem. Just try to grow a brain and try to see it.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - MidniteSpecial
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Bj-rn Felten wrote to August Abolins <=-

August Abolins -> Bj"rn Felten skrev 2022-12-29 14:22:

https://wapo.st/3VqsHpH

I hope it's not behind a pay-wall, if so I have copied the entire page
to my own server. It deserves saving.

I don't subscribe to the WP but the article seems to be in the
clear.

Thanks August!

Next time you run into a paywall, hit Ctrl-Alt-I to open the dev tools/inspector window. In the window, hit Ctrl-Alt-P, and in the
command box, type in DISABLE JAVASCRIPT and hit enter.

Then, reload the main page. Works for a lot of paywalls.



... Work at a different speed
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

Why don't some of you Euro-commie fucks give them what they
need?

Us Euro-commies want to, but are not allowed to. E.g. Germany as well as Poland has offered to send HIMARS systems, without the US modification to prevent it from using long distance missiles, as well as Patriot systems.

You really should try to keep up, FOX NEWS is not the best of sources of information.


--
United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Dan,

Now, if only Sloppy Joe could abandon his standpoint that no
western weapons should be able to reach more than 80km. Why not
let Ukraine respond in kind to the missiles fired from much
longer than that?

Ukraine is free to respond in any manner that they are able to.

Saddam Hussein also had that choice. We all saw how far that got him.

After the USA atomized Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Truman's generals
(including Curtis LeMay) wanted him to continue - by atomizing cities
in the USSR.

Why did President Truman refuse to go along with his own generals
advice? We all know Truman hated the color yellow, as shown by his
own actions. But white is the color of purity, and innocence.

Yes, Comrade Joe got a pass. But only because he was white.
Which explains why Mad Vlad will also get a pass ...

Why is it the USA's problem/obligation to provide them with the means to do
that?

You can thank the Rosenbergs.

Why don't some of you Euro-commie fucks give them what they need?

We already gave them everything they need, or could ever want.

It is *YOU*, after all, who are geographically close by and need
to keep the Russkies away. Honestly I don't really give a fuck.

"The Russians are coming! The Russians are coming!"

I watched a movie of the same name. Laughed my head off. And then
somebody told me it was all fake news. Really spoiled my day.

Missiles fired from the Black Sea Fleet? Well, even Sweden has
naval anti-missiles that can handle that (designed to work
against the Orcs in the Baltic Sea).

Okay, so let Sweden handle the situation and send the Bears home.

Sweden (and Finland) will soon be full-fledged members of NATO.
All for one, and one for all is their motto (Article V).

C'mon now, Sloppy Joe, it's time to no longer cowardly
clinging to the sideline and enter the fight. Putin is not as
formidable as you think.

I'm certainly no fan of Joe, but fuck off and provide the support yourself. It's not our problem.

With Sweden joining NATO it will be our problem as well as theirs.
But then, it is already our own problem, as it is the entire world's
problem.

This whole post is a perfect example of your two-faced-ness.

Mad Vlad invaded a sovereign nation. Without provocation. Ukraine
responded in the only way it could - by resisting the aggressor with
force. What was the alternative? No more Ukraine, no more Ukrainians.
No more democracy. For anybody. In the whole world.

If the USA *did* get highly involved in this bullshit, *YOU* would be the first to start screaming that we are trying to empire-build, and that we have no business interfering, and we should keep out of it.... blah, blah, blah.

What did US President Barack Obama do when Mad Vlad invaded Crimea,
illegally annexing the territory as part of Russia? Do you think he
just stood there, doing nothing? Remember, the Ukrainian army at
that time was basically non-existent. And what few there were had
little or no military training.

But then, in your world, imposing sanctions on Russia are meaningless.
Better to nuke them, as the USA has a huge stockpile of nukes that can
be launched straight toward the Kremlin. All Barack Obama had to do
was press the Big Red Button.

Of course, Mad Vlad would have done the same.

And we'd all have gone up in smoke. Just like Cheech and Chong.

Fuck all you commie-wannabes.

That explains why so many Cubans are seeking asylum - in Tijuana.

For Life,
Lee

--
Travel should take you places

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Bj�rn,

https://wapo.st/3VqsHpH

Lovely reading, I liked it.

Now, if only Sloppy Joe could abandon his standpoint that no western weapons
should be able to reach more than 80km.

Joe Cool is giving patriot missiles to Ukraine. Before Ukrainians
have even learned how to use them. France (and Italy) is also giving
their own version, the mamba SAMP/T anti-missile system, to Ukraine.
But first Ukrainians have to learn how to use it (w/French trainers).

Why not let Ukraine respond in kind to the missiles fired from much longer than that?

GWB conducted a pre-emptive first strike on Iraq, thus keeping the
world safe from the Butcher of Baghdad and his stash of WMD. So why
not allow Zelenskyy to do the same on Russia?

Yes. Regime change. GWB did it. Mad Vlad tried to do it. Neither of
those clowns needed nukes to accomplish their mission. So why should Z?

Putin has promised not to use nuclear weapons during his "special
military operation" - but only in the areas he has illegally annexed
as part of Russia. And Z has promised never to nuke any area of what
the rest of the world calls Ukraine.

You know what that means. Mad Vlad has no choice but to conduct his
own pre-emptive first strike - on Ukraine. Never his own homeland.

Mad Vlad did it before. Invaded Crimea. Barack Obama did nothing
to stop him, and did nothing afterwards. So what did he have to lose
by invading the rest of Ukraine?

Trump encouraged him. Even praised him. So how else would Mad Vlad
have been expected to act? He did what he thought he could get away
with.

Missiles fired from the Black Sea Fleet? Well, even Sweden has naval anti-missiles that can handle that (designed to work against the Orcs in the Baltic Sea).

Ukraine has an air defense system - from the USA, France, and Italy.
With training for its soldiers on how to use it. So why not add to
that system - with Sweden's missiles being part of that air defense?

C'mon now, Sloppy Joe, it's time to no longer cowardly clinging to the sideline and enter the fight. Putin is not as formidable as you think.

Mad Vlad has 8,000+ nukes in his pocket. How many of those nukes
will come your way if he is confronted with nukes coming his way?

Saddam Hussein had none, despite his many boasts. Saddam Hussein
also found a rope around his neck - after being tried and convicted
by a jury assembled by GWB.

"Is this manly?" ~last words of Saddam Hussein

For Life,
Lee

--
Impossible is nothing

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

GWB conducted a pre-emptive first strike on Iraq, thus keeping the
world safe from the Butcher of Baghdad and his stash of WMD. So why
not allow Zelenskyy to do the same on Russia?

Which WMDs?

--- DB4 - MidniteSpecial
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Why is it the USA's problem/obligation to provide them with the means to do that? Why don't some of you Euro-commie fucks give them what they need?

Getting yourself informed about who does what would be a great
start ... you should try it one day.

As usual, you don't answer the question(s) that were asked. Just throw
out some generalization designed to make yourself look superior. Want
to try again, and actually *SAY* something?

As for your comment, yeah... I already know who does what. The short
answer is that the USA does everything.

It is *YOU*, after all, who are geographically close by and need
to keep the Russkies away.

The Ruskies from today are not the Ruskies anymore from yonder
years ... And you do not have to take my word for it, but this is
not a Ukrainian crisis ... it's a global crisis, a test of
humanity in its barest essence.

No shit, regarding the Russkies today vs yesteryear. It's not a global "crisis", it's a bump in the road. Maybe you could get a "journalist"
job with CNN with that way of thinking, though.

I'm certainly no fan of Joe, but fuck off and provide the support yourself. It's not our problem.

It "is" your problem. Just try to grow a brain and try to see it.

Fuck off and fix it yourself.


... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Bj�rn Felten wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Why don't some of you Euro-commie fucks give them what they
need?

Us Euro-commies want to, but are not allowed to. E.g. Germany
as well as Poland has offered to send HIMARS systems, without the
US modification to prevent it from using long distance missiles,
as well as Patriot systems.

You're "not allowed to". Well fucking do it anyway. Tell your masters
how you feel, and that you want to help.

How come you snipped and didn't reply to my paragraph about being
two-faced, regarding what the USA does?



... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Hello Kurt Weiske!

Next time you run into a paywall, hit Ctrl-Alt-I to open the dev tools/inspector window. In the window, hit Ctrl-Alt-P, and in the
command box, type in DISABLE JAVASCRIPT and hit enter.

Then, reload the main page. Works for a lot of paywalls.

Thanks for the tip. Will give it a go on a few paywalls that I
get steered to in a couple of newsletters.

--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: --> . <-- Oh look.. A point! (2:221/1.58)

Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-

As for your comment, yeah... I already know who does what. The short answer is that the USA does everything.

Since the USA does it all, please tell me how many Ukrainian war
refugees the USA is hosting, providing free housing, free
schooling for the kids, help finding jobs, help learning a
foreign language. That alone is a humanitarian crisis that most
European countries are dealing with ... millions of people ...

Who do you think makes the USSR-grade ammo for the USSR-grade
weaponry after Ukraine ran out? I'll tell you, not the Russians
and not the USA ... special calibers.

Most every country here is helping within their means and power.

Blah blah blah-blah, blah blah blah...

You don't think the US is helping?

If this conflict does not come to an end quick, the way how
international trade is conducted will be re-drawn, new balances
will be reached and China will be the winner ...

Yeah, sure. Same thing you hand-wringers have been saying for six
months. Reminds me of Al Gore's predictions.

You bore me with your repetitive bullshit. I'd say you've now equaled
Beeeorn on that scale, and are approaching Beeeorn's sockpuppet level.

Go save a starving refugee, or something.



... Apathy Error: Strike any key...or none, for that matter.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Hi, Lee Lofaso!
I read your message from 30.12.2022 23:45

DC>> This whole post is a perfect example of your two-faced-ness.
LL> Mad Vlad invaded a sovereign nation. Without provocation.
LL> Ukraine responded in the only way it could - by resisting the
LL> aggressor with force. What was the alternative? No more
LL> Ukraine, no more Ukrainians. No more democracy. For anybody. In
LL> the whole world.

There was a clear alternative to thousand of deaths - do as had done
people of Czechoslovakia in 1967. A peaceful resistance. It was
bloodless invasion and everything ended happily in some time. Although
they had not the clown-idiot as President who lives as if he is a move
star, and people of his country are pawns.

Bye, Lee!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2023
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

There was a clear alternative to thousand of deaths

There was a clear (in fact there is a clear) alternative to thousands of deaths. Don't do it.

Why is Russia now occupying Ukraine and destroying whatever it finds there?

As if it had some kind of right to do that in Ukraine.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hello alexander!

01 Jan 23 20:11, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

There was a clear alternative to thousand of deaths - do as had done people of Czechoslovakia in 1967. A peaceful resistance. It was
bloodless invasion and everything ended happily in some time. Although
they had not the clown-idiot as President who lives as if he is a
move star, and people of his country are pawns.

I'm new here, joined FidoNet just couple of weeks ago, but here you are wrong: It didn't take "some time" - it did take 21 full years until Czechoslovakia was free. Yes, just a few people died by gun, but fifteen million of people were forced to live two decades in a country, where they weren't free to elect politicians they wanted, study schools they wanted, travel where they wanted and even publicly say what they wanted.

That's why we do have one of the highest of support in terms of USD per capita in the world. We are a small country, but quite nobody here wants anyone else to go through that what happened here in 1968.

Martin

... All bugs encountered until reboot are features.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Prague, Czech Republic (2:423/81.41)

Hello alexander!

There was a clear alternative to thousand of deaths - do as had done people of Czechoslovakia in 1967. A peaceful resistance. It was
bloodless invasion and everything ended happily in some time.

I doubt that whatever happend in '67 was entirely bloodless and
satisfying. And, you can't ignore what that country was
steering towards after that - true independence from Russia and
embrace a democratic society. I believe they achieved that in
the '89.

--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: --> . <-- Oh look.. A point! (2:221/1.58)

Hello, alexander!

Sunday January 01 2023 20:11, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

There was a clear alternative to thousand of deaths - do as had done people of Czechoslovakia in 1967. A peaceful resistance. It was

Please don't post here stories about Soviet era! I still have in my collection 2400 modem from 1990, "made in USSR": no MNP, very unstable, price was over 2000 rubbles. Average programmer's salary was 180 rubbles.

Fuck USSR!

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Rhodesians Never Die (2:5001/100.1)

Hello Martin,

On Sunday January 01 2023 19:18, you wrote to alexander koryagin:

I'm new here, joined FidoNet just couple of weeks ago, but here you
are wrong: It didn't take "some time" - it did take 21 full years
until Czechoslovakia was free. Yes, just a few people died by gun, but fifteen million of people were forced to live two decades in a
country, where they weren't free to elect politicians they wanted,
study schools they wanted, travel where they wanted and even publicly
say what they wanted.

As a student I was in Czechoslovakia in the summer of 67 and in the winter of 68. So both before and after the Russian invasion. I know what you are talking about...


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Alexander,

There was a clear alternative to thousand of deaths - do as had done
people of Czechoslovakia in 1967. A peaceful resistance. It was
bloodless invasion and everything ended happily in some time.

Maybe there's something wrong with your time-line ... the Czechoslovakian invasion by the USSR, Poland, Bulgaria and Hungaria happened in 1968. August 20-21...not 1967.

I remember the day as if it were yesterday. It was a beautifull day in Belgium, I was 17 and got totally depressed something like that could still happen in 1968.

The similarity between the violent smashing down of the East German uprising, which seems to be totally forgotten, by Warsaw pact forces led by the USSR is baffling. Juni 17 1953.

Or the violent smashing down of the Hungarian Uprising October 23 1956 ...

All of these events had thousands of innocent people killed, hundreds of thousands of refugees leaving the country and the red-thread through all these histories is the totalitarian country of USSR/Russia having lied to its population for over 70 years justifying these actions based on nonsense. There often have been accusations against NATO, the West wanting to destroy Russia but in a period now of some 78 years after WW2 the only offensive hostilities in the European theatre have always come from the USSR/Russia. The so-called bad West has never invaded any European nation after the end of WW2.

So what else is wrong if you can't even get a simple year correct ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - MidniteSpecial
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Martin,

It didn't take "some time" - it did take 21 full years until
Czechoslovakia was free.

Absolutely correct. And even then the Russians didn't leave in 1 day, it took 2-3 more years.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - MidniteSpecial
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

August,

There was a clear alternative to thousand of deaths - do as had done AA>ak> people of Czechoslovakia in 1967. A peaceful resistance. It was
bloodless invasion and everything ended happily in some time.

I doubt that whatever happend in '67 was entirely bloodless and
satisfying.

1968 ...

On the Czechoslovakian side 137 people perished. The most famous probably Jan Palach who died of self-immolation after he set himself on fire at Wenceslas square.

96 Russians killed (mostly in accidents), 10 Poles (several suicides), 4 Hungarians and 2 Bulgarians.

Hardly bloodless ...

I believe they achieved that in the '89.

In 1991 I was in Prague for the Dobris Assessment about Europe's environment. It was June 22nd 23rd and the last Russian military had just left the country. People were celebrating all over the place, we were invited everywhere for free. People just had to share their stories of what they endured during Russian occupation, the moment they knew you were a foreignor they just opened up and the day simply was not long enough. There was no time to record it all, to write in down, I hope the Czechs did.

The red thread through all of the hardships that people in Eastern Europe were put through is Russia ... they believed then they were the liberating force and they were never welcomed as liberators ... not in 1953, not in 1956, not in 1968 ... not in 2022 in Ukraine.

I always had hoped that the failed crackdown on Solidarnosc in 1981 (I believe) was the last spasm of monstruous communism. Maybe communism went away, but the monster's still there.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - MidniteSpecial
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Hi, Alan Ianson!
I read your message from 01.01.2023 20:26

ak>>> There was a clear alternative to thousands of deaths
AI> There was a clear (in fact there is a clear) alternative to
AI> thousands of deaths. Don't do it. Why is Russia now occupying
AI> Ukraine and destroying whatever it finds there? As if it had
AI> some kind of right to do that in Ukraine.

Russia does not attack democracy in Ukraine -- after 2014 there has been
no democracy there. Russia defends Russian people in eastern and
southern Ukraine who refused to obey Kiev after the coup and dismissing
the lawful president Yanukovich.

There is no a single reason to mark Ukraine as a democratic state after
that. It is a totalitarian ultra-nationalist state led by a talented
movie actor who knows well how to misled the world using for it the dark Putin's image. A loathsome policy.

Bye, Alan!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2023
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Martin Kukac!
I read your message from 01.01.2023 21:18

ak>> There was a clear alternative to thousand of deaths - do as had
ak>> done people of Czechoslovakia in 1967. A peaceful resistance. It
ak>> was bloodless invasion and everything ended happily in some time.
ak>> Although they had not the clown-idiot as President who lives as if
ak>> he is a move star, and people of his country are pawns.

MK> I'm new here, joined FidoNet just couple of weeks ago, but here you
MK> are wrong: It didn't take "some time" - it did take 21 full years
MK> until Czechoslovakia was free. Yes, just a few people died by gun,
MK> but fifteen million of people were forced to live two decades in a
MK> country, where they weren't free to elect politicians they wanted,
MK> study schools they wanted, travel where they wanted and even
MK> publicly say what they wanted.

You don't know what are you speaking about. Waiting is better that
hundreds of thousand of deaths inevitable if fight with such vast enemy
as Russia now and in future. And, besides, the war could be avoided at
all -- Russia's demanded before war consisted of demanding reasonable concessions towards Russian minority in Ukraine.

The problem was that nobody in Ukraine was going to follow the Minsk agreements, and as Merkel said it a few days ago -- the aim of those agreements was to give Ukraine time to reinforce their military.

Bye, Martin!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2023
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, August Abolins!
I read your message from 02.01.2023 02:11

ak>> There was a clear alternative to thousand of deaths - do as
ak>> had done people of Czechoslovakia in 1967. A peaceful
ak>> resistance. It was bloodless invasion and everything ended
ak>> happily in some time.
AA> I doubt that whatever happend in '67 was entirely bloodless and
AA> satisfying. And, you can't ignore what that country was
AA> steering towards after that - true independence from Russia and
AA> embrace a democratic society. I believe they achieved that in
AA> ??the '89.

It seems that for many people the only reason to call a country
"democratic" is its negative stance towards Russia. But I repeat -- the democratic Ukraine had ended in 2014. Then the totalitarian essence of
the regime became more and more obvious.
Even if I say to you about situation in Russia - nobody demanded me to
do this of that. It is a freedom more of less. But in a fascist country
as Ukraine -- people of national minorities started to get orders how
they must live from now on. This situation is even worse than the
situation with Putin's regime.

Bye, August!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2023
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 02.01.2023 14:20

MK>> It didn't take "some time" - it did take 21 full years until
MK>> Czechoslovakia was free.
WD> Absolutely correct. And even then the Russians didn't leave in
WD> 1 day, it took 2-3 more years.

I repeat the diplomatic way existed really. But according to the
diplomatic way Ukrainian troops had to leave Donbass and Ukraine must
follow Minsk agreements. It was unacceptable for ultra-nationalists.

But most funny and sad thing is that diplomatic way of solving this
conflict is the only workable. And the more weapon goes to Ukraine the
longer war will be and higher piles of corpses.

Negotiations are better even if they go for 20 years.

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2023
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* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

And, besides, the war could be avoided at all ...

Watch your words ... there's no war according to your employer, just a special military campaign ...

The problem was that nobody in Ukraine was going to follow the Minsk agreements, and as Merkel said it a few days ago -- the aim of those agreements was to give Ukraine time to reinforce their military.

The thing is that Russia has become one of the biggest liars in recorded history. The justification for the special military intervention AKA genocide AKA war changes all the time:

* To protect the Russian speaking minority in the Donbas
* To eliminate Nazis
* The west is trying to destroy Russia
* NATO is intent on taking over
* The West is accused of a reign of terror
* The west is standing with missiles at our doorstep (well, so is he)
* The West has started this war
* The West is rewriting history

And you Ruskies believe that, well, you probably are being paid to.

What actually the west is saying is "This is where the buck stops, here it ends, here is the moment where we stop watching and start doing something".

There's no way denying that Russia started the military conflict and the West will continue to support Ukraine in its objective to oust Russia from its territory. Time you accept it and start living that reality.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - MidniteSpecial
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

My friend in Fido,

Negotiations are better even if they go for 20 years.

Russia already has lost this war ... we've all known this since the middle of March.

It will end immediately when Russian troop are withdrawn back across borders in Russia... In the end Ukraine will become a EU-member and a NATO-member.

No way to avoid ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - MidniteSpecial
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

But in a fascist country as Ukraine -- people of national minorities started to get orders how they must live from now on. This situation is even worse than the situation with Putin's regime.

These people's nationality by every rule in the book was "Ukrainian".

Ukraine is a stable democratic country with a stable elected government. There are elections; wanna change the country? Do it via elections the way we do, the way the whole of the EU does... A minority? The rights of minorities are guaranteed in the EU ... let Ukraine enter the EU and the rights of the minorities will be recognized. It works.

Eternal arch-enemies Greece and Turkey are now behaving because of the EU. Lifelong foes France and Germany have not fought a war since 1870 ... before that it was every 20-25 years...

Trading to end wars works ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - MidniteSpecial
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

There was a clear (in fact there is a clear) alternative to
thousands of deaths. Don't do it. Why is Russia now occupying
Ukraine and destroying whatever it finds there? As if it had
some kind of right to do that in Ukraine.

Russia does not attack democracy in Ukraine

No, Russia is attacking the people of Ukraine. They have destroyed much in Ukraine and accomplished nothing.

-- after 2014 there has been no democracy there. Russia defends Russian people in eastern and southern Ukraine who refused to obey Kiev after the coup and dismissing the lawful president Yanukovich.

Russia has no business in Ukraine. It is not defending anyone.

There is no a single reason to mark Ukraine as a democratic state after
that. It is a totalitarian ultra-nationalist state led by a talented
movie actor who knows well how to misled the world using for it the dark Putin's image. A loathsome policy.

Ukraine is a democracy, pure and simple.

This talk of a totalitarian ultra-nationalist state led by a talented movie actor is a rubbish narrative.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hello, Ward!

Monday January 02 2023 18:00, you wrote to alexander koryagin:

Russia already has lost this war ... we've all known this since the
middle of March.

No one from Russian part of FidoNet went to this war and no one sent their sons there. No one.
The most pro-war Point from SU.POL even quickly got all medical papers and went to recruitment office to get permanent exemption from future mobilisations.

Sounds like our people are stupid enough to repeat Putin's lies but smart enough to stay alive ;)

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Rhodesians Never Die (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, alexander!

Monday January 02 2023 18:31, you wrote to Alan Ianson:

Russia does not attack democracy in Ukraine -- after 2014 there has
been no democracy there. Russia defends Russian people in eastern and

1. There is no democracy on Russia.
2. No one cares about Russians even in Russia.
3. You are just repeating state propaganda.

Even in Russia your statements sounds lame.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Rhodesians Never Die (2:5001/100.1)

alexander koryagin -> Ward Dossche skrev 2023-01-02 17:14:

I repeat the diplomatic way existed really. But according to the diplomatic way Ukrainian troops had to leave Donbass and Ukraine must follow Minsk agreements. It was unacceptable for ultra-nationalists.

Why don't you give up Alexander? In this forum we follow more news outlets than what you brainwashed people in Russia does.

We know what the Minsk agreements stipulated, and we know very well how Putin has violated every single paragraph of it. Ukraine e.g. agreed to send all their nuklear missiles to Russia in exchange for assurances that Russia would respect and protect their freedom. Just watch what happened...



--
United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hi, Alan Ianson!
I read your message from 02.01.2023 21:59

AI> Ukraine is a democracy, pure and simple.
AI> This talk of a totalitarian ultra-nationalist state led by a
AI> talented movie actor is a rubbish narrative.

Tell me the signs why you call Ukraine after 2014 a "pure, democratic
state". Had you watched the serial with Zelesky-president to long and
cannot tell movie from the reality?

Bye, Alan!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2023
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* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Kennedy and Khrushev in 1963 conflict had done everything to prevent the
war. An idiot Zlenesky has done everything to start the war.

Zelensky never started or wanted a war.

Ukraine never attacked, or threatened to attack anyone. Today they defend themselves from attacks by Russia.

This war is Russian aggression, pure and simple.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 03.01.2023 05:52

ak>> Russia does not attack democracy in Ukraine -- after 2014
ak>> there has been no democracy there. Russia defends Russian
ak>> people in eastern and

DP> 1. There is no democracy on Russia.
DP> 2. No one cares about Russians even in Russia.
DP> 3. You are just repeating state propaganda.

You are so blinded by your thoughts that you cannot even get that I was
saying about Ukraine. As for Russia a have never said that there is
democracy there.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2023
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* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 02.01.2023 19:51

ak>> And, besides, the war could be avoided at all...
WD> Watch your words... there's no war according to your employer, just
WD> a special military campaign...

A said about Ukrainian side.

ak>> The problem was that nobody in Ukraine was going to follow the
ak>> Minsk agreements, and as Merkel said it a few days ago -- the aim
ak>> of those agreements was to give Ukraine time to reinforce their
ak>> military.

WD> The thing is that Russia has become one of the biggest liars in
WD> recorded history. The justification for the special military
WD> intervention AKA genocide AKA war changes all the time:

As for Zelensky you are as a little snotty boy believe in the bright
movie serial where Zelensky is depicted as a democratic and good
president. But in reality he is quite another person.

<skipped>

WD> And you Ruskies believe that, well, you probably are being paid to.
WD> What actually the west is saying is "This is where the buck stops,
WD> here it ends, here is the moment where we stop watching and start
WD> doing something".

You, on the west, are fucking spectators of a gladiators fighting. When
one of your gladiator dies you put on the arena another one and rub your hands. You have never wanted this war to end.

WD> There's no way denying that Russia started the military conflict
WD> and the West will continue to support Ukraine in its objective to
WD> oust Russia from its territory. Time you accept it and start living
WD> that reality.

Kennedy and Khrushev in 1963 conflict had done everything to prevent the
war. An idiot Zlenesky has done everything to start the war.

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2023
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 02.01.2023 20:00

ak>> Negotiations are better even if they go for 20 years.
WD> Russia already has lost this war ... we've all known this since
WD> the middle of March. It will end immediately when Russian troop
WD> are withdrawn back across borders in Russia... In the end
WD> Ukraine will become a EU-member and a NATO-member. No way to
WD> avoid ...

;-)

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2023
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* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 02.01.2023 20:03

ak>> But in a fascist country as Ukraine -- people of national
ak>> minorities started to get orders how they must live from now on.
ak>> This situation is even worse than the situation with Putin's
ak>> regime.

WD> These people's nationality by every rule in the book
WD> was "Ukrainian".

I said you many times that borders in the USSR were formal - the Russian empire had been divided by Bolsheviks without thinking too much. The
eastern and south Ukraine always were populated by Russian people. The
end of the USSR could make them Ukrainians, even by order. Two nation
Ukraine was a reality and for long time they lived together more or less peacefully.

WD> Ukraine is a stable democratic country with a stable elected
WD> government. There are elections; wanna change the country? Do it

It has never been such a country since 2014. One part of population
decided for another part of population how they must live. A
Nazy-fascist way of doing, although milder, without concentration camps.

WD> via elections the way we do, the way the whole of the EU does... A
WD> minority? The rights of minorities are guaranteed in the EU... let
WD> Ukraine enter the EU and the rights of the minorities will be
WD> recognized. It works.

It doesn't work. The rights of minorities in Ukraine had been violated violently. And this violation is the _only factor_ that differs Ukraine
before 2014 from Ukraine after 2014.

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2023
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* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Bj?rn Felten!
I read your message from 03.01.2023 21:43

ak>> I repeat the diplomatic way existed really. But according to the
ak>> diplomatic way Ukrainian troops had to leave Donbass and Ukraine
ak>> must follow Minsk agreements. It was unacceptable for ultra-
ak>> nationalists.

BF> Why don't you give up Alexander? In this forum we follow more news
BF> outlets than what you brainwashed people in Russia does.

I know your "news outlets" - I have the Internet and satellite dish.
Your media always tells about Kiev bombing and never says about Donetsk bombing which suffers now more killed that ever. Hypocrites.

BF> We know what the Minsk agreements stipulated, and we know very well
BF> how Putin has violated every single paragraph of it. Ukraine e.g.
BF> agreed to send all their nuklear missiles to Russia in exchange for
BF> assurances that Russia would respect and protect their freedom.
BF> Just watch what happened...

It is an illusion that all states must be eternally inseparable. Just
look at Yugoslavia, the USSR, Sudan, India. The UK will follow this row
soon. Some events can happen and their people don't want live together.
Why do you defend serfdom?

Bye, Bj?rn!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2023
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* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Kennedy and Khrushev in 1963 conflict had done everything to prevent the war. An idiot Zlenesky has done everything to start the war.

1962 perhaps?

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - MidniteSpecial
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

I know your "news outlets" - I have the Internet and satellite dish.
Your media always tells about Kiev bombing and never says about Donetsk bombing which suffers now more killed that ever. Hypocrites.

Yes, Russia is attacking Donetsk and the people there suffer from those attacks. There is nothing but death and destruction wherever Russia goes.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hello, alexander!

Wednesday January 04 2023 12:08, you wrote to me:

1. There is no democracy on Russia.
2. No one cares about Russians even in Russia.
3. You are just repeating state propaganda.

You are so blinded by your thoughts that you cannot even get that I
was saying about Ukraine. As for Russia a have never said that there

You've never been to Ukraine. Please stop beeing a bullshit poster :)




Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Rhodesians Never Die (2:5001/100.1)

Hello Ward,

Kennedy and Khrushev in 1963 conflict had done everything to prevent the
war. An idiot Zlenesky has done everything to start the war.

1962 perhaps?

Russian time is different.

For Life,
Lee

--
We Make Your Wet Dreams Come True

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Alexander,

[..]

Kennedy and Khrushev in 1963 conflict had done everything to prevent
the war. An idiot Zlenesky has done everything to start the war.

In 1963. Lee Harvey Oswald made sure no crisis in Cuba would ever
happen again. And the scene Jack Ruby made with Lee Harvey Oswald
at the Dallas Police Station - shown live on national television -
made the both of them instant celebrities.

Back to 1962 -

Kruschev sent missiles to Cuba.
Kennedy sent his brother to Turkey.
Kruschev removed missiles from Cuba.
Kennedy removed missiles from Turkey.

Tit for Tat. That is how the game was played.

And then Kennedy was removed from office.
And Kruschev was removed from office.

And a new game began ...

For Life,
Lee

--
What can brown do for you?

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Who do you think makes the USSR-grade ammo for the USSR-grade weaponry after Ukraine ran out? I'll tell you, not the Russians and not the USA
... special calibers.

Germany, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Poland, Romania, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan,
and in the Ukraine by themselves. 5.45x39 ammo has been made since 1974,
I'm sure there are stockpiles on the arms market to be sold.



... What do you think management's real interests are?
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

Who do you think makes the USSR-grade ammo for the USSR-grade

weaponry

after Ukraine ran out? I'll tell you, not the Russians and not the KW>WD> USA ... special calibers.

Germany, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Poland, Romania, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan,
and in the Ukraine by themselves. 5.45x39 ammo has been made since 1974, I'm sure there are stockpiles on the arms market to be sold.

I was told Czechia and Slovakia because they apparently never decommissioned their USSR-era ammunition factories but just kept producing. Germany I'm surprized, would that be the former GDR perhaps?

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - MidniteSpecial
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Hi, Lee Lofaso!
I read your message from 04.01.2023 21:31

ak>>> Kennedy and Khrushev in 1963 conflict had done
ak>>> everything to prevent the war. An idiot Zlenesky has
ak>>> done everything to start the war.
WD>> 1962 perhaps?
LL> Russian time is different.

I had a doubt about the year, but I was too lazy to check it. ;-) I
thought you would understand me anyway.

Bye, Lee!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2023
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Lee Lofaso!
I read your message from 04.01.2023 21:38

ak>> Kennedy and Khrushev in 1963 conflict had done everything
ak>> to prevent the war. An idiot Zlenesky has done everything
ak>> to start the war.
LL> In 1963. Lee Harvey Oswald made sure no crisis in Cuba would
LL> ever happen again. And the scene Jack Ruby made with Lee Harvey
LL> Oswald at the Dallas Police Station - shown live on national
LL> television - made the both of them instant celebrities.
LL> Back to 1962 -
LL> Kruschev sent missiles to Cuba.
LL> Kennedy sent his brother to Turkey.
LL> Kruschev removed missiles from Cuba.
LL> Kennedy removed missiles from Turkey.
LL> Tit for Tat. That is how the game was played.
LL> And then Kennedy was removed from office.
LL> And Kruschev was removed from office.
LL> And a new game began ...

The USSR and the US were like cowboys in the Wild West, with good guns,
and they forced to smile and respect each other to avoid shootings. For
some reason the US started to ignore Russia.

Bye, Lee!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2023
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hello, alexander!

Friday January 06 2023 11:53, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

The USSR and the US were like cowboys in the Wild West, with good
guns, and they forced to smile and respect each other to avoid
shootings. For some reason the US started to ignore Russia.

No one was ignoring Russia, just our "moth" (this is how he was called in FSB) Putin decicded that he needs to put his name into the schoolbooks.


Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Rhodesians Never Die (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Alan Ianson!
I read your message from 04.01.2023 12:00

ak>> Kennedy and Khrushev in 1963 conflict had done everything to
ak>> prevent the war. An idiot Zelenesky has done everything to start
ak>> the war.

AI> Zelensky never started or wanted a war.

It is not necessary for a person to start fighting to get a blue eye.
;=) Although avoiding provocations is a good idea.

AI> Ukraine never attacked, or threatened to attack anyone. Today they
AI> defend themselves from attacks by Russia.

Ukrainians troops killed ntens of thousand civilians in Donbass before Ferruary 2022. Probably you news media forgot to tell you about it.

AI> This war is Russian aggression, pure and simple.


Bye, Alan!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2023
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

It is not necessary for a person to start fighting to get a blue eye.
;=) Although avoiding provocations is a good idea.

;)

Ukraine never attacked, or threatened to attack anyone. Today they
defend themselves from attacks by Russia.

Ukrainians troops killed ntens of thousand civilians in Donbass before Ferruary 2022. Probably you news media forgot to tell you about it.

Our news did report it at the time. Accurately.

This war is Russian aggression, pure and simple.

I'll say it again, this war is Russian aggression, pure and simple.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hello, alexander!

Friday January 06 2023 12:18, you wrote to Alan Ianson:

Ukrainians troops killed ntens of thousand civilians in Donbass before
Ferruary 2022. Probably you news media forgot to tell you about it.

They never did it because it's a lie. You are taking your numbers from Putin's dreams? :)

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Rhodesians Never Die (2:5001/100.1)

Hello Dmitry,

1. There is no democracy on Russia.
2. No one cares about Russians even in Russia.
3. You are just repeating state propaganda.

You are so blinded by your thoughts that you cannot even get that I
was saying about Ukraine. As for Russia a have never said that there

You've never been to Ukraine. Please stop beeing a bullshit poster :)

Relax. Putin is opening things up for more tours to be made
available so everybody (except women of childbearing age) can
go. Just think of the sights that will be enjoyed - including
live action between Russians and Ukrainians - along with the
invitation to take part in those exercises ...

For Life,
Lee

--
Make 7-Up Yours

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello, Lee!

Friday January 06 2023 11:49, you wrote to me:

You've never been to Ukraine. Please stop beeing a bullshit
poster :)

Relax. Putin is opening things up for more tours to be made
available so everybody (except women of childbearing age) can

But he is not going there, I've asked him several times ;)

No one from Russian part of Fidonet went to this war!

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Rhodesians Never Die (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 06.01.2023 12:59

DP> Hello, alexander!
DP> Friday January 06 2023 12:18, you wrote to Alan Ianson:
ak>> Ukrainians troops killed ntens of thousand civilians in
ak>> Donbass before Ferruary 2022. Probably you news media
ak>> forgot to tell you about it.
DP> They never did it because it's a lie. You are taking your
DP> numbers from Putin's dreams? :)

And Donbass in ruins also a Kremlim fantasy, probably. How much are you
paid for such messages?


Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2023
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Alan Ianson!
I read your message from 06.01.2023 12:57

AI> I'll say it again, this war is Russian aggression, pure and
AI> simple.

Do you still think that people of Crimea are poor ones suffering under
Russian military? ;=)

Bye, Alan!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2023
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 07.01.2023 07:59

DP> But he is not going there, I've asked him several times ;)
DP> No one from Russian part of Fidonet went to this war!

And millions of Ukrainians, all who could, fled from it to the West.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2023
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hello, alexander!

Monday January 09 2023 09:32, you wrote to me:

Ukrainians troops killed ntens of thousand civilians in
Donbass before Ferruary 2022. Probably you news media
forgot to tell you about it.

They never did it because it's a lie. You are taking your
numbers from Putin's dreams? :)

And Donbass in ruins also a Kremlim fantasy, probably. How much are

Donbass is a battlefield for Russian and Ukranians armies for many years. What do you expect from war? It's always a distruction.

you paid for such messages?

1 million dollars per month.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Rhodesians Never Die (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, alexander!

Monday January 09 2023 10:00, you wrote to me:

But he is not going there, I've asked him several times ;)
No one from Russian part of Fidonet went to this war!

And millions of Ukrainians, all who could, fled from it to the West.

Tell this to brave Ukranians soldiers which are kicking criminal's asses near Bahmut ;) Most of those who fled where women and children.
And most of those who fled Russia were educated men in their 20-30s :)

Who's gonna create new industries in Russia? :) Everyone with skills is thinking about emigration.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Rhodesians Never Die (2:5001/100.1)

I'll say it again, this war is Russian aggression, pure and
simple.

Do you still think that people of Crimea are poor ones suffering under Russian military? ;=)

I never thought that.

I still think that this war is Russian aggression, pure and simple.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

And Donbass in ruins also a Kremlim fantasy, probably. How much are you
paid for such messages?

Why do you think Donbass is in ruins?

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hello alexander!

I'll say it again, this war is Russian aggression, pure and
simple.

Do you still think that people of Crimea are poor ones suffering under Russian military? ;=)

Maybe the Russian military isn't an oppression and cause of
suffering and limitations of free will in Crimea, but the Rus
govt most certainly can be.

--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: --> . <-- Oh look.. A point! (2:221/1.58)

Hi, Alan Ianson!
I read your message from 09.01.2023 20:36

AI>>> I'll say it again, this war is Russian aggression, pure and
AI>>> simple.
ak>> Do you still think that people of Crimea are poor ones suffering
ak>> under Russian military? ;=)
AI> I never thought that.
AI> I still think that this war is Russian aggression, pure and simple.

Your position should change like the position of politicians nowadays
who condemned recent violence in Brasilia. The events were strikingly
similar to the Kiev events in 2014. At last politicians began realize
how in is bad and dangerous to supports such unlawful revolts, and they realise that such revolt is a direct way to the country splitting and
civil war.

Bye, Alan!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2023
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Alan Ianson!
I read your message from 09.01.2023 20:37

ak>>> And Donbass in ruins also a Kremlim fantasy, probably.
ak>>> How much are you
ak>> >paid for such messages?
AI> Why do you think Donbass is in ruins?

If watched from Mars it looks OK, isn't it? ;-)

Bye, Alan!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2023
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Hello alexander,

Your position should change like the position of politicians nowadays
who condemned recent violence in Brasilia. The events were strikingly similar to the Kiev events in 2014. At last politicians began realize
how in is bad and dangerous to supports such unlawful revolts, and
they realise that such revolt is a direct way to the country splitting
and civil war.

My positon can't change given that facts behind them.

It is not a civil war in Ukraine. It is an unprovoked attack (war) by Russia.

Ttyl :-),
Al

... Warranty (n.): See Disclaimer.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20220504
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)

Hello alexander,

Why do you think Donbass is in ruins?

If watched from Mars it looks OK, isn't it? ;-)

It doesn't matter where you watch it from. The Donbass is in ruins from Russian attacks.

Ttyl :-),
Al

... Thesaurus: ancient reptile with an excellent vocabulary
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20220504
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday January 10 2023 13:01, you wrote to August Abolins:

As for "suffering and limitations" -- Crimea for last few years has
got money from Russia 20 times more that it got for all years when it
was in Ukraine.

So Japan should take some parts of Russian territory because it will invest more there? :)

Or probably your forgot about mass respressions in Crimea which started under Russian occupation? FSB is torturing people like it's 17th century around :(

Best regards,
dp.

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Hi, August Abolins!
I read your message from 09.01.2023 22:10

AI>>> I'll say it again, this war is Russian aggression, pure
AI>>> and simple.
ak>> Do you still think that people of Crimea are poor ones
ak>> suffering under Russian military? ;=)
AA> Maybe the Russian military isn't an oppression and cause of
AA> suffering and limitations of free will in Crimea, but the Rus
AA> govt most certainly can be.

New Kiev authorities held so an idiotic ultra-nationalistic policy
towards Russian population which removed the question concerning which
way of going was worse. The situation exacerbated for Kiev quickly
especially because Crimea was always pro-Russia area. So has been
Donbass, too BTW.

As for "suffering and limitations" -- Crimea for last few years has got
money from Russia 20 times more that it got for all years when it was in Ukraine.

Bye, August!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2023
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Nah, it was to pay for the broken bridge.

On Jan 10, 2023 01:13pm, Dmitry Protasoff wrote to alexander koryagin:

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday January 10 2023 13:01, you wrote to August Abolins:

As for "suffering and limitations" -- Crimea for last few years has
got money from Russia 20 times more that it got for all years when it
was in Ukraine.

So Japan should take some parts of Russian territory because it will invest more there? :)

Or probably your forgot about mass respressions in Crimea which started under Russian occupation? FSB is torturing people like it's 17th
century around :(

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
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... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
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Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 10.01.2023 13:16

ak>> As for "suffering and limitations" -- Crimea for last few
ak>> years has got money from Russia 20 times more that it got
ak>> for all years when it was in Ukraine.
DP> So Japan should take some parts of Russian territory because it
DP> will invest more there? :) Or probably your forgot about mass
DP> respressions in Crimea which started under Russian occupation?
DP> FSB is torturing people like it's 17th century around :(

When I looking at Assange and Snowden, when I see mass repressions for
those who had come to protest to the Capitol, how the yellow vests
protests are ignored in France I don't see democracy examples.

IMHO, the main criteria of freedom for is simple -- if I live and nobody orders me what I must to do -- I am free. It is the case in Russia (at
least until this war), but it is not the case for so called democratic
Ukraine after 2014.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
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Hello, alexander!

Wednesday January 11 2023 10:10, you wrote to me:

So Japan should take some parts of Russian territory because it
will invest more there? :) Or probably your forgot about mass
respressions in Crimea which started under Russian occupation?
FSB is torturing people like it's 17th century around :(

When I looking at Assange and Snowden, when I see mass repressions for

Assange and Snowden according to Russian laws are just traitors, up to 25 years in jail.
But for Putin they are "usefull idiots".

those who had come to protest to the Capitol, how the yellow vests

In Russia it also means up to 25 years in jail. Sounds like you don't know our local laws ;)

protests are ignored in France I don't see democracy examples.

You can't even freely elect your own muncipical deputy, so you have zero access to democracy. How you can be an expert in such thing that is completely unavailable to you?

IMHO, the main criteria of freedom for is simple -- if I live and
nobody orders me what I must to do -- I am free. It is the case in

In Russia even local police officer could fuck in the ass during interrogation (very comon thing in modern Russia) - if it's ok for you, than you are free ;)


Best regards,
dp.

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Alexander,

IMHO, the main criteria of freedom for is simple -- if I live and nobody orders me what I must to do -- I am free. It is the case in Russia (at least until this war), but it is not the case for so called democratic Ukraine after 2014.

I will not pretend I'm the greatest mind about Russian things, I've been to Russia only once in 2009 for 2 weeks in St.Petersburg (which I definitely need to visit again, the Hermitage alone is worth it).

But I could not help to wonder about the Russians ... there's something odd about them ... they don't look you straight in the eyes ... when you look at them ... when you try to strike-up a talk, it's difficult ... when you bump into someone at the St.Petersburg (excellent ... I think) subway and say "I'm sorry" you will not be acknowledged ... people look away, walk away, try not to become noticed.

Probably for the everyday Russian it is not noticed, but the visitor not being part of that society notices.

The reason is that Russians n-e-v-e-r have had the kind of freedoms that I for example here in Belgium have, there always has been a ruler of some kind ... a tsar ... a tsarina ... a rebelious committee ... the communist party ... a despot seeking absolute power ... Yeltsin ... Putin ....

But you never got to decide about your own future ... you don't get to decide about your leadership ... you don't get to decide, as a result, where your country is headed to ... in the whole of Russia you mean nothing. You have no voice ... you can't even stand with a blank sheet of paper on the corner of the street.

When will your next presidential elections be? Here the maximum term for the next election is laid down by law, laws which are a tedious process, not something Putin invents overnight. Your Putin comes up with laws faster than he changes underwear (which I assume he does daily).

I can tell a policeman/-women "Where's the mail? Ooops, I thought you were the mailman". I can hold a press conference stating that my government is fake and corrupt and nothing will happen ... not to the government and not to me.

"Freedom"? In a matter of speech, I don't think you even can spell the word ... figuratively of course.

Don't forget to enlist to go fight in the special military operation.

\%/@rd

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Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 11.01.2023 12:47

ak>> IMHO, the main criteria of freedom for is simple -- if I live and
ak>> nobody orders me what I must to do -- I am free. It is the case in
ak>> Russia (at least until this war), but it is not the case for so
ak>> called democratic Ukraine after 2014.

<skipped>
WD> The reason is that Russians n-e-v-e-r have had the kind of freedoms
WD> that I for example here in Belgium have, there always has been a
WD> ruler of some kind... a tsar... a tsarina... a rebelious
WD> committee... the communist party... a despot seeking absolute
WD> power... Yeltsin... Putin....

WD> But you never got to decide about your own future... you don't get
WD> to decide about your leadership... you don't get to decide, as a
WD> result, where your country is headed to... in the whole of Russia
WD> you mean nothing. You have no voice... you can't even stand with a
WD> blank sheet of paper on the corner of the street.

You mix up the freedom of personality and democracy. Democracy is
another way to impose your will on other people. To make the world to be
as you see it better. And very frequently the opinion of democratically elected majority is against the opposition minority, and the majority shamelessly orders the minority what it must do, and by this it violates freedom.

WD> When will your next presidential elections be? Here the maximum
WD> term for the next election is laid down by law, laws which are a
WD> tedious process, not something Putin invents overnight. Your Putin
WD> comes up with laws faster than he changes underwear (which I assume
WD> he does daily).

You believe that your "free" elections influence on something. It is a
great illusion and a fairy-tale. Your protest, if your don't agree on something, also does nothing. The "democratic" countries are ruled by
small group of people, who have a real power.

WD> I can tell a policeman/- women "Where's the mail? Ooops, I thought
WD> you were the mailman". I can hold a press conference stating that
WD> my government is fake and corrupt and nothing will happen... not to
WD> the government and not to me.

Yeah, nothing will happen. At all. ;-)

WD> Don't forget to enlist to go fight in the special military
WD> operation.

Russian people in the same position as Ukrainians -- they cannot
influence on the process.

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2023
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Hello, alexander!

Friday January 13 2023 09:52, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

You believe that your "free" elections influence on something. It is a
great illusion and a fairy-tale. Your protest, if your don't agree on
something, also does nothing. The "democratic" countries are ruled by
small group of people, who have a real power.

This is very "Russian" idea that if you are slave in your own country then all people around are also slaves.
It's not true.

Even in Russia the situation was different, in your region you have zero control over "elected" people, in my part of Moscow we really elected politicians who were very easily accessible for anyone and their demands.

It's a shame for our nation that Putin decided to destroy this small island on normality in Moscow. And now feudal system is everywhere.

Best regards,
dp.

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Hello August,

I'll say it again, this war is Russian aggression, pure and
simple.

Do you still think that people of Crimea are poor ones suffering under
Russian military? ;=)

Maybe the Russian military isn't an oppression and cause of
suffering and limitations of free will in Crimea, but the Rus
govt most certainly can be.

It is an impossibility for Russia to successfully defend Crimea
from being retaken by Ukraine.

Just look on a geographical map of the area. No way for Russia to
supply its troops, or to move troops around to better positions.

The only positive for Russia is its ability to withdraw its troops
from Crimea by sea. But then those troops would still be hemmed into
the Black Sea, due to Turkiye's blockade of the straits.

For Life,
Lee

--
More Doctors Smoke Camels than Any Other Cigarette

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Hello Alexander,

I'll say it again, this war is Russian aggression, pure and
simple.

Do you still think that people of Crimea are poor ones suffering
under Russian military? ;=)

I never thought that.
I still think that this war is Russian aggression, pure and simple.

Your position should change like the position of politicians nowadays
who condemned recent violence in Brasilia.

The elected president of Brazil remained in Brazil.
The defeated candidate (who was the incumbent) fled to Miami.

The elected president of Ukraine remained in Kyiv.
The defeated candidate (who was the incumbent) fled to Moscow.

The events were strikingly similar to the Kiev events in 2014.

There was no election in 2014. Russian troops simply occupied Crimea
and never left. Kyiv remained firmly a part of Ukraine.

At last politicians began realize how in is bad and dangerous to supports such unlawful revolts, and they realise that such revolt is a direct way to
the country splitting and civil war.

There was never any civil war anywhere in Ukraine. Parts of Ukraine
were invaded, and remain occupied, by outside forces (mostly Russian).
But there is no civil war.

For Life,
Lee

--
Your Hole Is Our Goal

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Hello Dmitry,

As for "suffering and limitations" -- Crimea for last few years has
got money from Russia 20 times more that it got for all years when it
was in Ukraine.

So Japan should take some parts of Russian territory because it will invest
more there? :)

Japan has never relinquished any part of the Kiril Islands to Russia,
as the two sides remain in a state of war having never signed a peace
treaty.

Or probably your forgot about mass respressions in Crimea which started under Russian occupation? FSB is torturing people like it's 17th century around :(

Turkiye has never relinquished any part of Crimea ...

For Life,
Lee

--
Coronovirus doesn't effect rats n snakes so most of u are safe.

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Hi, Lee Lofaso!
I read your message from 13.01.2023 18:59

ak>> At last politicians began realize how in is bad and
ak>> dangerous to supports such unlawful revolts, and they
ak>> realise that such revolt is a direct way to the country
ak>> splitting and civil war.
LL> There was never any civil war anywhere in Ukraine. Parts of
LL> Ukraine were invaded, and remain occupied, by outside forces
LL> (mostly Russian). But there is no civil war.

The hatred to Putin blinds many in the West. But I repeat again -- don't
mix up the conflict inside Ukraine and Putin. Zelensky is not President
from the comedy serial. As for Russians who support the Putin's
operation -- Putin doesn't need to propagandize his stance about
Ukrainian and Baltic states fascism. Demolitions of memorials to the
Soviet soldiers fallen in fighting fascism is the best ans strongest
pro-Putin propaganda possible, and it makes the majority of Russians
support this war, a liberation one.

You have blinded by your media also. It always says about Russian rocket fallen in Ukraine city, but never tells about Ukrainian rockets in the civilian areas of Donetsk. Shame.

Bye, Lee!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2023
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Hello, alexander!

Sunday January 15 2023 19:29, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

about Ukrainian and Baltic states fascism. Demolitions of memorials to
the Soviet soldiers fallen in fighting fascism is the best ans
strongest pro-Putin propaganda possible, and it makes the majority of Russians support this war, a liberation one.

1 million of Russian went to abroad to escape this war, so you are just telling here some Putin's dreams about "major support".
For me as a Russian it's sounds totally weird.

You are just lying to our Europian friends - most of Russians are just scared and confused. Nothing more.

We have almost a totalitarian state already so it's difficult to be openly against the war when police will just rape you in case of open protest (now very common thing in Russia!).

Best regards,
dp.

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Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 15.01.2023 23:03

ak>> about Ukrainian and Baltic states fascism. Demolitions of
ak>> memorials to the Soviet soldiers fallen in fighting fascism is the
ak>> best ans strongest pro-Putin propaganda possible, and it makes the
ak>> majority of Russians support this war, a liberation one.

DP> 1 million of Russian went to abroad to escape this war, so you are
DP> just telling here some Putin's dreams about "major support". For me
DP> as a Russian it's sounds totally weird.

There are different Russians and red lines which they have. Some have
any. I like democracy and freedom, I sympathize with Navalny. But if,
for instance, some bastards desecrate memorials to the our soldiers
falling fighting Nazy Germany, such bastards can be called only as
bastards and cannot cause any sympathy.

DP> You are just lying to our Europian friends - most of Russians are
DP> just scared and confused. Nothing more.

It is you who tells a lie here. There is no fear in Russia, although, of course, any normal people don't want to go to war, as it is in any country.
If Ukraine, other Baltic states want to be respected by Russian people
they should respect their holy things and rights. In other way, there is
no a smallest pity for Nazy Ukraine in Russia. And some Ukrainians had
made all possible to make things as they are now.

If somebody wants to rise more protests in Russia against this war they
should do what I had said in the paragraph above.

DP> We have almost a totalitarian state already so it's difficult to be
DP> openly against the war when police will just rape you in case of
DP> open protest (now very common thing in Russia!).

American cops prefer to electrocute their victims or choke them. ;-)

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2023
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Hello, alexander!

Friday January 20 2023 08:34, you wrote to me:

1 million of Russian went to abroad to escape this war, so you
are just telling here some Putin's dreams about "major support".
For me as a Russian it's sounds totally weird.

There are different Russians and red lines which they have. Some have

But everyone know that they will be prosecuted in case of any open opposition to putin's regime.
It could be anything, from large fine to long jail time.

for instance, some bastards desecrate memorials to the our soldiers falling fighting Nazy Germany, such bastards can be called only as bastards and cannot cause any sympathy.

So you should call bolsheviks "bastards" because they destroyed most of war memorials for WWI?
Not moved them to other place, like it happened in former Soviet countries, but just destoryed.
And also destroyed mass graves of our soldiers killed in WWI.

So they were bastards?

You are just lying to our Europian friends - most of Russians
are just scared and confused. Nothing more.

It is you who tells a lie here. There is no fear in Russia, although,

Yes, it is. Our local minucipal deputy got 7 year in jail because he was against the war.
Everyone scared.

Any (!) open protest is prohibited. Police will detain anyone with anti-war slogan.

country. If Ukraine, other Baltic states want to be respected by
Russian people they should respect their holy things and rights. In

I spent 2 months this year in Latvia and saw nothing wrong with Russian people's rights.
And they got EU passports, btw :) And I am not.

other way, there is no a smallest pity for Nazy Ukraine in Russia. And some Ukrainians had made all possible to make things as they are now.

In Ukraine a lot of Russians are fighting agains Russia! My Russians friends in Ukraine always telling me that they really hate Putin.
Putin lied to us that they will be no war, he lied that it wasn't Russian forces that invaded Crimea, lied that "there is no Russian army in Donbass".

And his idea that killing people in neighboring country because he doesn't like their laws - is just a madness.

We have almost a totalitarian state already so it's difficult to
be openly against the war when police will just rape you in case
of open protest (now very common thing in Russia!).

American cops prefer to electrocute their victims or choke them. ;-)

Not for peacefull protests. In Russia if you killed someone you can get a chance to go and kill even more people and then return home.
And now rich people are buying their freedom because Russia is corrupt from bottom to top :) Someone goes to war, someone goes to Dubai :)

Dubai is much better than Donbass and it's now full of rich Russians :)

Best regards,
dp.

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I spent 2 months this year in Latvia ...

""""""""" """""""""

Hmmm ... that's rather difficult, I think ... 8-)

Dubai is much better than Donbass and it's now full of rich Russians :)

Dubai, the Emirates, Saudi-Arabia, Qatar ... they are all corrupt and totalitarian.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - MidniteSpecial
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Hello, Ward!

Friday January 20 2023 10:45, you wrote to me:

I spent 2 months this year in Latvia ...

""""""""" """""""""

Hmmm ... that's rather difficult, I think ... 8-)

Ah, I am still in 2022 :) Thanks, now switching to 2023 mode :)

Dubai is much better than Donbass and it's now full of rich
Russians :)

Dubai, the Emirates, Saudi-Arabia, Qatar ... they are all corrupt and totalitarian.

Yes, exactly.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Rhodesians Never Die (2:5001/100.1)

Hello Kurt,

[..]

Next time you run into a paywall ...

Paywall? What paywall?

Many thanks. Saved for future use.

For Life,
Lee

--
No Trump! No KKK! No fascist USA!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
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Hello, alexander!

Monday January 30 2023 09:18, you wrote to me:

But everyone know that they will be prosecuted in case of any
open opposition to putin's regime. It could be anything, from
large fine to long jail time.

Problems that inside Russia are not connected with Ukraine crisis.

They are directly connected. Russians now are acting like flock of sheep, headed my dictator to miserable future.
Their inability to stop Putin led to this crisis.

More of that -- Ukrainian nationalists have led so outrageous and
violent policy toward Crimea and Donbass that the people there have preferred a totalitarian Russia to Ukrainian Nazi.

It was not violent - no one was killed before the Russian invasion to Ukraine in Crimea. The idea about "violent policy" is just a stupid propaganda from Russian TV.
And 2021 was the most peacefull year in Donbass before the current invasion.

How could you trust Putin when he even lied that "it's not Russin forces that invaded Crimea". He lied about current war ("we are not going to invade!"), lied about mobilization ("there will be no mobilization!"), the whole current Russia policy is very simple: "Lie as much as possible".

Lie is a core idea of putinism.

As for position of Russian people to the war -- it seems to me, it can
be compared with the conflict Jews/Arabs. They are relatives by

No, nothing in common.

blood, but Jews proclaimed for no reason that the territory is their

Jews and Arabs don't have common language and religion, Palestine was just a part of Ottoman empire where Arabs and Jews had very little power.

Jewish and Ukrainian nationalism are very similar. I don't say that

Not at all. The whole idea of zionism was about mass emigration of Jews from contries where they were treated like second class citizens to Israel. Nothing like this happened in Ukraine. USSR heavily prosecuted anyone with ideas about independent Ukraine, they were sent to Siberia.

The First World war had nothing to do with Russia. It was probably an adventure of Tsar. Russian soldiers did not defend Russia. Russians
never knew why they fought in the WWI.

For sure Russians knew why they were fighting - "to protect slavs". Read some books about our history how WWI was very popular in Russia in 1914.
Before the heavy losses :)

In Ukraine a lot of Russians are fighting agains Russia! My
Russians friends in Ukraine always telling me that they really
hate Putin. Putin lied to us that they will be no war, he lied
that it wasn't Russian forces that invaded Crimea, lied that
"there is no Russian army in Donbass".

Post Soviet people always follow orders. So Russian people are not

Not always and not all post-soviet people.

able to refuse to fight at East front. They will be prosecuted.

They lost their country to dictator and they cannot even talk freely.

The Mask's idea about new fair referendums to end this war has met negatively by Kiev by a simple reason -- they knew how Russians feel towards Russia in reality. Zelensky is afraid of these referendums.

Russians in Ukraine are fighting against Russian army if you forgot. You cannot speak for all Russians, it's just lame.
I am also Russian and for me Putin is just a fascist dictator.

Not for peacefull protests. In Russia if you killed someone you
can

Last days world TV showed good examples how good are American cops.

Probobly they are not showing how Russian cops fucking someone in the ass as they like to do with political detainees and no mass protests were seen after that :)

People in any country could act brutally, the problem is that in USA you can do something about that, in Russia you just shut up and thank God that its not you.

So, I forgot to add "beating to death right on the street" to electrocution and choking. ;-)

Killing people with sledgehammer without any trial it's a new normality for modern Russia, if you forgot :) Are you ok with that?
Ah, I forgot that if you will say publicly anything against that - you ass is in trouble. And you'll be happy that it't not a sledgehammer.

----
A defendant in a controversial Russian extremism case has accused the police of beating and sexually assaulting him in order to obtain a confession, the latest accusation of police torture in a high-profile trial in the country.

In a courtroom statement on Friday, Ruslan Kostylenkov accused five police officers of tying him to a chair, beating him in the kidneys, and then sodomising him with the handle of a kitchen mallet so that he would confess on camera to belonging to an anarchist organisation.

After the incident, a police officer "sat with me during my interrogation and virtually dictated my testimony to the investigator", Kostylenkov said in the statement, which was provided to the Guardian before Friday's hearing.

The alleged torture left him defecating and urinating blood for days, he said. ----

Feeling ok about such cases? :)

Best regards,
dp.

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