���ண� �६�窠, Alan Ianson.
�� ��ᠫ� 17.03.22 6:30:

Nothing is removed. The black and white is all there for your
perusal, all the pretty stuff along with the not so pretty stuff
as you can see in the case of the article you linked.

Try to search for yourself. I'm not going to state the obvious.

--
2:50/700 aka ex.2:5020/612
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Thursday March 17 2022 09:01, you wrote to me:

Peaceful resistance was very possible, but too many people
in Ukraine wanted to spill some blood.

In Russia.

And because of that Ukrainian troops came to Donbass? Who had entered

Ukrainian troops were in Donbass! It was part of their country. They were standing near the border with Russia.

Donbass first and started a bloody civil war?

No, it was Igor Strelkov and his fighters from Russia who where sent there to start the conflict.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 18.03.2022 00:15

ak>> And because of that Ukrainian troops came to Donbass? Who
ak>> had entered
DP> Ukrainian troops were in Donbass! It was part of their country.
DP> They were standing near the border with Russia.

It is not true. Ukrainian troops had been sent to crush Donbass a time
after the coup.

ak>> Donbass first and started a bloody civil war?
DP> No, it was Igor Strelkov and his fighters from Russia who where
DP> sent there to start the conflict.

The fighters that came from Russia would not have any sense without
local fighters.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

That's why you should be able to see the Russian version of the event.

The 'news' has only one version ... there is no such thing as 'alternative news' ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220222
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 18.03.2022 11:34

ak>> That's why you should be able to see the Russian version of
ak>> the event.
WD> The 'news' has only one version ... there is no such thing as
WD> 'alternative news' ...

May be in paradise. But on Earth it ridiculous to tell that one side of
the conflict always tells the truth. Or to tell the western media lies
never.

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Monday March 21 2022 15:30, you wrote to me:

without local fighters.

So you are admitting that Russia sent military units into
Ukraine, although we had local law which was signed by Putin
that Ukraine is our ally?

Ukraine was an ally when Yanukovich was in power. Sending fighters in

So we took territory from our ally?

Ukraine in the period 2014-2022 had only one purpose -- to prevent

No, the purpose was to take some territory and start major conflict in Ukraine.

cutting throats of the Russian population of Donbass who didn't accept

But no one was actaully killed before the arrival of Russia fighters.
The whole story about "cutting throats" was jus Putin's fakes.

the coup in Kiev. After the people burning in Odessa it was actual.

It was the only event which was a tradegy but not something planned in advance. We now have 1000x more civilians killed because of our invasion than people who died in single fire in Odessa.
At this single moment people are beeing killed in Mariupol because of our invasion.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Dale Shipp!
I read your message from 22.03.2022 00:51

AK>>> Responding to the Ukrainian accusations on Wednesday,
AK>>> the Russian military said none of its planes had
AK>>> carried out any ground attacks in Mariupol that day,
AK>>> and the theater had not in any case been on its list of
AK>>> targets.
DS>> I would not have expected them to say anything else.
AK>> Yes, it also can be so. Although Americans with their
AK>> sophisticated radar equipment and event surveillance could
AK>> say the truth.
DS> Except that the USA military is not there, nor would they be
DS> prone to publish what ever intelligence they might obtain if
DS> they had access.

Nevertheless their word would be important. Another confirmed story is
the missile night strike against the mall with hidden missiles launch
system.

You can not watch the video how they hide such systems in such places,
but just in case:

https://www.rt.com/russia/552408-kiev-mall-bombing-military/

Bye, Dale!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday March 22 2022 09:40, you wrote to me:

fake news from my story, they idea is not to bring news to
people, but to spread propaganda.

Do you think that Ukraine doesn't participate in propaganda war and doesn't make fake news? Take for instance the claim that Russian

I mean that if you post RT stories and you know that they are fake news company - why do you do that?
What's the reason?

troops in one mouth has lost more people than they lost in Afghanistan
for 10 years war. A funny propaganda news.

You don't know how much Russian troops were killed in Ukraine, that's the problem.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday March 22 2022 10:01, you wrote to me:

It was the only event which was a tradegy but not something
planned in advance. We now have 1000x more civilians killed
because of our invasion than people who died in single fire in
Odessa. At this single moment people are beeing killed in
Mariupol because of our invasion.

I also don't understand why Putin has thought that his "operation"
could make the situation better than it was. I only believe that this

Because he is delusional former KGB officer. Paranoid dictator who is even afraid of using internet.


Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday March 22 2022 10:04, you wrote to me:

And Russian propaganda will say "we don't believe Amricans".
It's like Russian embassy in Ukraine which was saying: "there
will be no war", but then just closed and even didn't tell to
Russian citizens to leave Ukraine ASAP.

The American statement on this account would be important not for the Russian auditory only.

Americans asked it's citizens to leave the country, Russian embassy was saying that they will be no war and just left.
This is how we are protecting our citizens.
That's why those stories about "protecting people of Donbass" are just empty slogans: our state just left our women ofter with children in Ukraine and stared a war without any plans for their evacuation.

It's so terrible!

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, alexander!

Wednesday March 23 2022 10:16, you wrote to me:

I mean that if you post RT stories and you know that they are
fake news company - why do you do that? What's the reason?

I've never claimed that RT news are all the holy truth. I just

RT was created to spread Russian propaganda abroad, you can check the real purpose of such organizations were " ideological subversion or active measures ... or psychological warfare" under control by KGB/FSB. Check what Yuri Bezmenov said about that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Bezmenov

You don't know how much Russian troops were killed in Ukraine,
that's the problem.

There are many bloggers in the Internet who easily tell you it, along
with other things, the Saddam Hussein's KGB rank including. But are
their numbers worth to be trust?

As long you don't know (at not supposed to know) the truth - you cannot be sure about anything.
Baiden was right about the Invasion, Putin was lying. Now we see that clearly. But number of killed Russians is a secret information, Russian State was never very happy to disclose any secret information and they can easily lie about casualties. I don't think Baiden will help us with that :(

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 23.03.2022 11:25

ak>> There are many bloggers in the Internet who easily tell you
ak>> it, along with other things, the Saddam Hussein's KGB rank
ak>> including. But are their numbers worth to be trust?
DP> As long you don't know (at not supposed to know) the truth -
DP> you cannot be sure about anything. Baiden was right about the
DP> Invasion, Putin was lying. Now we see that clearly. But number
DP> of killed Russians is a secret information, Russian State was
DP> never very happy to disclose any secret information and they can
easily
DP> lie about casualties. I don't think Baiden will help us with
DP> that:(

Say to me - if the truth/a lie == 50/50 - what is it? ;-)

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

I have already told you why Russian troops cannot enter the big cities.

They have tried.

And I repeat all victims and distraction coukd be avoided if Zelensky
would choose a peaceful scenario. Peaceful resistance to the Russian
troops could be more effective. No killed, no distruction. Another
matter that too many people in Ukraine really want to fight.

Do you actually believe that? Peaceful resistance to the Russian troops could be more effective?

It is not that too many people in Ukraine want to fight. Ukraine was invaded by Russia. There was no threat to Russia by Ukraine. The Ukrainian people are fighting for their lives and country. They are doing that heroically and with much success in spite of the superior numbers of the invaders.

You can believe that the number of Russian soldiers who have died is as reported. The Ukrainians didn't ask for the war and have asked Russia to end their invasion.

None of this would have happened had Russia not started this heinous act of aggression and committed it's various war crimes since the invation began.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hello, alexander!

Thursday March 24 2022 15:08, you wrote to Dale Shipp:

Well, you probably forgot the main slogan of the Putin's campaign -
the _liberation_ of Ukrainian people from fascists. ;) So, killing a

He was lying, again.

common Ukrainian people is certainly is not in the plan. But if the

You never saw the plan, thats the problem.

Ukrainian military sits in the cities quarters it is almost impossible
to done them without flattening the city into ruins. I don't know what

The same was with Soviet forces during WWII - they were located near civil areas. And Nazi troops were detroying Kharkiv the same way.
Ukranians are protecting their country from foreign invaders and Russian forces was never very accurate, so mass destruction of cities was almost inevitable.

I have already told you why Russian troops cannot enter the big
cities. And I repeat all victims and distraction coukd be avoided if Zelensky would choose a peaceful scenario. Peaceful resistance to the

You mean - surrender? This is treason, BTW.

Russian troops could be more effective. No killed, no distruction.

You mean - surrender? CHeck what's happening in Mariupol - Russian forces already banned Ukranian language in schools, many citizens were detained, torture is common.

Another matter that too many people in Ukraine really want to fight.

Putin says that Russians and Ukranians are the same nation, right? So why he thought that theywill surrender?
He is just crazy.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

And the west sits on their collective asses, condemns, demands ... but does nothing while the Ukrainian people get slaughtered and their cities destroyed ...

The west does nothing?

The war in Ukraine is a human catastrophy, we can all see that. If the west put boots on the ground now it would become a hot mess rather quickly and that would not help Ukraine.

There is a red line somewhere, I couldn't say exactly where it is since I am not a war planner and am not involved, but it is there.

Today Russia used white phosphorus in Ukraine, in Kyiv in a civilian area. That is a chemical weapon. It burns the target area including any people on the ground hit by it. Russia is getting closer to the red line although that gives me no comfort.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hello Alan,

Putin's vision is to eliminate Ukraine from the face of the earth.

That is clear from what he calls phase one of the successful invasion of Ukraine. Of course it was not successful. If you believe what he says (of course you cannot believe anything he says) he has now moved on to phase 2 in the Donbass region where he will kill and destroy the cities of largely Russian speaking areas of Ukraine as he did in Mariupol and other places.

Those two areas are largely uncontested, populated by Putin loyalists,
so its cities will not be destroyed. Except one industrial city just
outside that area populated by hundreds of thousands of civilians who
have not pledged loyalty to Putin.

It is essential for him to do so, as Ukraine is the lynchpin. He views
himself as Czar of Russia. Not in the sense you think of it. Or of
what most others might think of it.

Yes, he would be the Tsar of Russia.

Overseeing all the lands populated by the Orthodox faithful.

Putin is not interested in recreating or resurrecting the USSR.
What he wants is something far greater. Something all the world's
leaders and political commentators seem to have forgotten.

In times of old, the peoples around the world (those in Christendom)
looked upon three people:

* The Pope
* The King/Queen of England
* The Czar of Russia

We all know who those people represented. The world's Catholics
looked to the Pope. The world's Protestants looked to the King/Queen
of England. The world's Orthodox looked to the Czar of Russia.

The days of the Tsar are over now.

Not in Putin's mind.

In those days, there was no separation of church and state.
In Putin's Russia, there is no separation of church and state.

That is why he does not recognize Belarus or Ukraine as independent
or sovereign states. Both are part of Russia, with all his subjects.

This is a dream world of times past long ago.

This is Putin's dream of days to come.

This is a case of the bear reprimanding one of its cubs. Mama bear
will not stop until baby bear complies.

No, this is something different. Very different.

Putin views Mother Russia as the bear, and Ukraine as the cub that
needs to be taught a lesson.

All comedy is based on tragedy. Shakespeare said that. And what a
tragedy it is for Ukraine (and the world) to be going through this.
Yes, Zelensky has performed bravely, and heroicly. But we all know
how this ends.

All comedy is based on tragedy. An individual slips on a banana
peel and lands on his butt. We laugh. Even though it is a tragedy.

Putin finds it funny that a comedian would dare defy his rule.
And now Putin has found himself the one who has slipped on a banana
peel. What do you think will be his reaction?

Russia invaded Ukraine and will be expelled at great cost.

Putin is like a gorilla whose hand won't let go of a coconut
in the ground. He is incapable of escaping his own predicament.
But does his opposition have the will to finish what needs to
be done, or will it have mercy and free him to continue his ways?

Had Donald Trump won a second term there would have been no war in
Ukraine. Trump would have withdrawn the US from NATO, Putin would
have forced Ukraine to comply with his wishes (becoming a vassal
state), Zelensky would retire from politics and go on an extended
speaking tour, and all would be well.

When the Donald was elected I thought that was a bad idea but I didn't realize it would turn out so badly. I hope there will be no more such presidents in the USA.

He could return to haunt us. You know that.

Putin's best days are well behind him now.

He is just getting started. A young man, pushing 70 but still in
great shape, and ready for action. As long as he can find enough
young people to do it for him.

No, Putin is just about finished.

What a ridiculous thing to say. Just because Putin is pushing 70 does
not mean he is "just about finished." Donald Trump will be a young man
of 78 if he is re-elected POTUS in 2024. And Joe Biden will only be 82
years young if he wins a second consecutive term in 2024. And do keep
in mind that Putin has a six-year term rather than a short four-year
term. Plenty of time for him to prepare for the next election.

The population of Russia today is 145 million. That is down
by 10 million from what it was a decade ago. And Russians are
leaving by even greater numbers since the invasion of Ukraine
began ...

I don't blame the people of Russia although the events unfolding today are being done in the name of Russia. I hope that the people of Russia will solve their kleptocracy issues and rejoin the world community at some point.

The majority of Russians know and understand who and what Putin is.
Although they would prefer a more rational leader, they are unable to
freely express their views, much less vote for the candidate of their
choice. It is fantasy to believe Russia is still a democracy of any
kind. But people are not stupid. Not nearly as stupid as Putin would
like to believe.

That's a rather tall order but I hope they can do that somehow.

One day, like all men, Putin will die. And people everywhere around
the world (not just in Russia) will celebrate.

The real power is in the hands of the Russian people if they will exercize.
Maybe they don't know they have the power?

Il Duce ordered women to make babies for Fascist Italy. Offered them
bribes to do so. Lots of Italian lira. But Italian couples knew what
to do. Yes, they continued to do what men and women have always done
since the beginning of time. But just before reaching that magic
moment, they completely lost interest and nothing came of it. This
is real history, what was done before and during WWII.

Vladimir Putin has been offering the same bribe to Russian women,
only with Russian rubles rather than Italian lira. Not many Russian
women (if any) took him up on his offer.

--Lee

--
Make Sure Your Next Erection Is In Safe Hands

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Alan,

It was no surprise to anyone when Putin decided to invade Crimea,
and then annex it into Russia. It was also no surprise for any real
Ukrainian military resistance, as such military resistance was
virtually non-existent. All that US President Barack Obama could
do was protest and impose weak sanctions on Russia for its actions.
And of course, the UN condemned its actions, punishing Putin with
a wet noodle.

I don't recognize Putin's annexation of Crimea, does anyone?

Not me. Not the international community. Not anybody else I know of.

Obama did next to nothing. The world just shrugged its shoulders.
Putin got what he wanted, at very little cost. And that was just a
nibble of things to come.

Did Crimea ask for help?

Crimea is a part of Ukraine. Occupied by Russia at the moment.
Its people held against their will. Others being stateless. Or
being held in Russian gulags.

The people of Crimea are no better off today than they were before
Russia forcibly and illegally annexed that part of Ukraine as part
of Russia.

I wouldn't want to be a part of Russia but maybe the people of Crimea want that?

Crimea is not a part of Russia. Had the people of Russian-occupied
Crimea wanted to move to Russia, they would have done so voluntarily
long before Russia chose to invade and occupy their land.

A self-declared stable genius. Of course hindsight is always better
than foresight. But Trump always did speak warmly of Putin. Even before
he somehow managed to win the presidency.

Yes, he took the word of Putin over his own intelligence agencies.

He did travel to Moscow so he could pee on the bed that Bill Clinton
slept on. Not that impressed anybody (other than himself).

First he started by invading Crimea in 2014. Then he continued his war
by arming separatists in two more provinces of Ukraine. The day before
his full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Putin unilaterally recognized those
two areas as independent and separate states.

I'm not interested in the pronouncements of Putin.

In doing so, he voided the Minsk 2 Agreements. But then, he never
had any intention of keeping Russia's commitments to them in the first
place.

--Lee

--
Say it loud! Say it clear! / Refugees are welcome here!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello August,

Putin is a psychotic prick.

Is he? Or is it he simply likes little boys?

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna13743946


--Lee

--
Change Is Cumming

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

The days of the Tsar are over now.

Not in Putin's mind.

Yes, but nevertheless, The days of the Tsar are over.

This is a dream world of times past long ago.

This is Putin's dream of days to come.

Those days are over regardless of Putin's dreams.

Putin views Mother Russia as the bear, and Ukraine as the cub that
needs to be taught a lesson.

Symbolism. This is a war not a bear and her cubs.

All comedy is based on tragedy. An individual slips on a banana
peel and lands on his butt. We laugh. Even though it is a tragedy.

I have always thought the best comedy was based on truth.

Putin finds it funny that a comedian would dare defy his rule.
And now Putin has found himself the one who has slipped on a banana
peel. What do you think will be his reaction?

It must be disbelief. Putin has raised Zelensky to something of a hero. Something that wouldn't have happened if he had not blundered into this war.

Russia invaded Ukraine and will be expelled at great cost.

Putin is like a gorilla whose hand won't let go of a coconut
in the ground. He is incapable of escaping his own predicament.
But does his opposition have the will to finish what needs to
be done, or will it have mercy and free him to continue his ways?

Putin has demonstrated that he has the will. He hasn't faced much in the way of opposition. A few people quit and left Russia and a few others fired and imprisoned. The failure is not their fault but that is the way it works in Russia.

When the Donald was elected I thought that was a bad idea but I didn't
realize it would turn out so badly. I hope there will be no more such
presidents in the USA.

He could return to haunt us. You know that.

I don't think so. I was suprised it happened once, it could happen again but I doubt that very much. I worry more about Trump like sorts.

No, Putin is just about finished.

What a ridiculous thing to say. Just because Putin is pushing 70 does
not mean he is "just about finished."

Is it? I believe that is so. It's not about his age.

Donald Trump will be a young man of 78 if he is re-elected POTUS in 2024.
And Joe Biden will only be 82 years young if he wins a second consecutive term in 2024. And do keep in mind that Putin has a six-year term rather than a short four-year term. Plenty of time for him to prepare for the next election.

I don't think they are counting votes in Russia anymore than the are in Belarus.

When I say that Putin is done I am not talking about his presidency. I suppose he'll be there until he dies but he is done (or finished) now.

I don't blame the people of Russia although the events unfolding today are >> being done in the name of Russia. I hope that the people of Russia will
solve their kleptocracy issues and rejoin the world community at some
point.

The majority of Russians know and understand who and what Putin is.

Yes. It could be difficult, bloody in fact to affect any kind of change. It seems for now the status quo will have to do.

Although they would prefer a more rational leader, they are unable to
freely express their views, much less vote for the candidate of their
choice.

There is no choice of people or parties in Russia. There just isn't.

It is fantasy to believe Russia is still a democracy of any
kind. But people are not stupid. Not nearly as stupid as Putin would
like to believe.

Agreed.

That's a rather tall order but I hope they can do that somehow.

One day, like all men, Putin will die. And people everywhere around
the world (not just in Russia) will celebrate.

That is so.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

On 03-26-22 19:05, Alexander Koryagin <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Ukraine National Ant <=-

You are actually say that Putin wants to kill innocent civilian people
and wipe out Ukraine off the face of the earth. It is a not funny marasmus, and it is totally incorrect.

It is exactly what he is doing.

It difficult to say what is more insane - to build a military
fortified area inside big cities or storming them. But one thing is
clear -- Mariupol is a Russian speaking city, so the live of its
citizens are not important to nationalists who has made their houses
and flats into firing points.

So what that some people are Russian speaking. It does not make them
any less important to Ukraine, which is a multilingal country.

Occupation of Ukraine is not the Putin's aim. His aims are rather political.

You could fool me -- and the rest of the free world. His actions speak differently.

The main problem in this conflict, IMHO, is that Putin is so disliked
by so many people in the world that even if he does good things these things would be perceived negatively anyway.

And just what good things are he doing?

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)



... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:36:10, 27 Mar 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

It is a usual thing
when some radical idiots create havoc in a multinational country -- separatism is inevitable. Russia had a very modest role in this conflict.

I call that hogwash. We (Belgium) have our radicals too, there have been historical language and economic differences and the international press will jump on it come election time, but no people get killed, some name calling ... a bit like a football game.

Then last summer when torrential rains devastated one region killing hundreds and leaving tens of thousands homeless, the other language community was the first to respond in such a way that relief organisations asked not to send anything anymore because they couldn't handle the volume of aid (clothing, food...). For months construction workers on their week-ends off went to work there for free to help rebuild ... so where are the Russians helping to rebuild Ukraine? Where are the relief funds? The food? Clothing? The only thing Russia has sent is violence, death, destruction, rape, thieving, wiping out entire cities...

A small post-office just across the border in Belarus was used to send 2-3 tonnes of looted objects (computers, TVs, household appliances, clothing, ...) a day to somewhere Russia ... stolen by Russian soldiers ... And Belarus is not distrubiting Zelenski-propaganda ... just locals complaining they could not get inside their post-office anymore.

First of all Ukraine refused to do amnesty for the rebels, make an
autonomy for the Donbass region. Russia was Donbass people defender but
it incorrect to say that Russian troops for 8 years have defended
Donbass. Russian troops entered Donbass this spring.

On July 17 2014 it was a Russian weapons system operated by a Russian military crew that shot down Malaysia Airlines flight 17. Please do not insult people here by denying, it's an established fact, even the names of the Russian individuals are known. Russian communication systems were (and probably still are) so primative they could be picked-up and recorded ...

There were already Russian troops in that area and they were taking part in hostilities ...

Ukrainian nationalist have no pity for Mariupol just because there are
too many pro Russian people have always lived there. The "defence" of Mariupol in reality is a revenge to its citizens.

Oh dear ... there's definitely a mall connect in your brain if you truly believe that. Do you make a living distributing this nonsense?

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220222
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

There isn't much difference. Russia is the nazi regime of today.

Nazi == ultra-nationalistic. Look for Ukraine.

Bzzt. Russia is on a nationalistic tac now.

Russia's invasion of Ukraine is unjust. There is no way to get
justice from injustice.

You see only one side of the scene. All the one-side reports are useless
in this case.

Oh? What have I missed?

There is nothing noble or heroic about Russia's invasion of
Ukraine. There may be parades in Russia but there will be no heroes
in Russia.

Russia has already lost.

What do you mean by it?

I mean just what I said. There is no justice or anything noble about the invasion. There never was and never will be. When the war is over there will be no heroes heading back to Russia.

When I say that Russia has already lost I mean simply that. In 60 or so days of war they have not accomplished any of their objectives.

They have accomplished death and destruction (of civilians and civil infrastructure) on a major scale. Was that the objective?

All of the propaganda coming out of the kremlin and Russia
generally. It is a fascist trait.

It's not a place for freedom I agree. But I repeat that a strong
propaganda is always based on the true facts and notions.

The propaganda that comes from the kremlin today is all lies, it's baseless.

Only in this case it has success. I see in Russia cars wearing "Z".

I have seen that too. It's shameful.

I see children with "Z" cut in their haircuts.

What a mindless attitude. Do you think children know waht "Z" means?

Why do the civilians in Mariupol need to be defended? Because
Russia invaded Ukraine?

I doubt that they needed to be defended at all.

The young lady we talked about previously would disagree, if she could.

https://youtu.b/C66mAkS1ZfM?list=PL7dQWce1VEocye4PFXY64yZEgdn7HBdF3

The time of 2015 is incomparable with the present situation. But at
least one thing is clear -- Ukraine at that time held a military
operation in Donbass similar to Russian one today. Well, it was at a
smaller scale, but it has been continued 8 years.

In 2015 it is clear to see Russian involvment in the Donbass region and that is why the Ukraine military had to have a military operation there as they do taoday.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Well, Taiwan is also a breakaway state. So what?

More fiction, or perhaps delusion.

Peacekeepers? Hardly. In the final stages of the Transnistrain war
the Russian military fired on Moldova. Transnistria is still today
occupied by Russia.

It is also a historical problem. Moldova changed its borders many times,
and it so happened historically that on the left side of the Dniester
live Russian speakers. The plans of Moldova nationalists, when they came
to power, were similar to those of the Ukrainian ones, and they caused
the similar havoc, which could perfectly be avoided in case of a sober, balanced policy to all the nations of Moldova.

Here's a clue for you, Transnistria does not, never did and never will exist.

The most ugly thing in this conflict that the blame are put on Russia
only, but those fucking idiots who actually started the havoc are now
shown as martyrs and poor ones.

No, Russia is blamed simply for the invasion of Ukraine, and the aftermath.

It's not rocket science.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hello, alexander!

Thursday April 21 2022 09:28, you wrote to me:

The opened it when they were ready. It's a stupid thing to start
a war when you are not ready.

And the dirty work has not yet done by the USSR. ;) Not telling about

USSR already did a lot of dirt work when invaded and annexed countries in Eastern Europe.
Like killing a lot of people there.

"readiness" of the USSR to fight Germany.

USSR decided to start war alone. It was Stalin's decision, not something done by US.

Well, although all this we can do now. ;) The main task Russia to make
its own powerful electronic industry. Russia lags behind in this

Impossible. Just impossible. Too difficult for our country. Not enough smart people.
It's not about telling lies, it's about using brains.

I still remember soviet modems, it was something very ugly and years behind the West.

area, its chips, processors are slower, bigger, but they exist and
work, judging by our missile industry. Who can say that Russian
military rockets use American chips?

Xilinx is widely used in our rocket equipment.

Do Ukrainian troops shell the cities which captured by Russian
troops?

Give me names fo the cities to be more specific?

Well, tell me about ill-fated Bucha, for instance. Russian troops are there -- what are doing Ukrainan troops in this case? Will they throw

Russians troops that did the most terrible crimes in Europe since Yugoslavian wars?

bottles of vodka to Russian troops? No, they had used the Grad
multiple launch systems, and they didn't bother about Russian speaking civilians at all.

Most of people in Bucha spoke Ukranian. And they didn't use Grad there, just another lie.

Why civilian victims are ascribed to Russian troops only?

Because without Russia those people will be still alive.

The same I can say about fucking Ukraine defenders who "defended"

And what about fucking soldiers who raped women in Ukraine? Do you like how they behave there?

those unhappy people from the windows of their flats, without
necessity at all.

So you also whant to call Soviet soldiers during WWII who were defending their cities also "fucking"?

It was Putin who pushed Yanukovich to stop EU integration.

He hadn't stopped it but only suspended the process, because the conditions of the agreement were non-lucrative for Ukraine. At least

Conditions were ok, Armenia got the same status, BTW. Puting tried to bribe him again but failed.


Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Oleg,

You're going to overstep. Nazism will be disposed of completely this
time. Along with Western armaments.

So .... how is it going with the uprooting of neo-Nazism in Ukraine? Everything going as planned with the war?

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

So .... how is it going with the uprooting of neo-Nazism in Ukraine? Everything going as planned with the war?

The older I get, the more I can see how history repeats itself, and the more sorry I become when I see how few people don't even see it.

In 2014 it was obvious to me that Putin was using the playbook from a certain Austrian corporal, whose name we are not allowed to mention, because of Godwin. Even if it happened ten years before I was even born, we actually study history here in Sweden. So, the 1938 Austrian Anschluss referendum, with all it's 99+% results...

Well, now Putin once again is playing the same card that he played in Crimea, this time to Anschluss even more territory. Go figure...



--
United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Well, now Putin once again is playing the same card that he played in Crimea, this time to Anschluss even more territory. Go figure...

What I cannot wrap my mind around is that he can fool a complete population with it ... we have all these modern communication tools.

I'm very worried about the lack of comments, supportive or rejective, from inside R50 and R45 though the links seem to work ... Is everybody really that scared for reprisals?

Does anyone overthere really believe the Putin rethoric? I mean the average Russian is not any more brainless than the average European I would suspect...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Hi, Bj?rn Felten!
I read your message from 22.09.2022 08:00

BF> In 2014 it was obvious to me that Putin was using the playbook from
BF> a certain Austrian corporal, whose name we are not allowed to
BF> mention, because of Godwin. Even if it happened ten years before I
BF> was even born, we actually study history here in Sweden. So, the
BF> 1938 Austrian Anschluss referendum, with all it's 99+% results...

If we speak of was that Anschluss referendum result false or true - we
should say it had been perfectlty true. People got what they wanted.

BF> Well, now Putin once again is playing the same card that he played
BF> in Crimea, this time to Anschluss even more territory. Go figure...

The mainspring of the conflict was in Kiev in 2014. Ukrainian
nationalists planed and planing to make Ukrainians from Russians living
in Ukraine, make them forgot their language, to cut ties with Russia and Russian culture. Such a policy is cynically correct and workable when
they deal with thousands of people, like Russians in Estonia, for
instance. But it creates a critical atomic mass when millions of people
are targeted.

The doctrine that all people living in Ukraine are Ukrainians is false
as saying that all people in Estonia are Estonians. Thr west should
admit it long ago and treat Ukraine as a country of two nations.

Bye, Bj?rn!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 22.09.2022 08:57

BF>> Well, now Putin once again is playing the same card that he
BF>> played in Crimea, this time to Anschluss even more
BF>> territory. Go figure...
WD> What I cannot wrap my mind around is that he can fool a
WD> complete population with it ... we have all these modern
WD> communication tools. I'm very worried about the lack of
WD> comments, supportive or rejective, from inside R50 and R45
WD> though the links seem to work ... Is everybody really that scared for
WD> reprisals? Does anyone overthere really believe the Putin rethoric? I
WD> mean the average Russian is not any more brainless than the average
WD> European I would suspect...

I repeat you should not mix up Putin and other issues, especially the nationalistic conflict in Ukraine. Putin is a tyrant, OK, but the
conflict in Ukraine gives him great points and trust in Russia because
he positions himself as a defender of the Russian people who is under
attack in Donbass. He has actually hid himself behind this noble shield.

The main issue now is that everything that Putin touches becomes
discredited in the West. No matter what it is. Putin has become a
bugaboo, and parents scare children with him.

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

I mean the average Russian is not any more brainless than the average European I would suspect...

It's called indoctrination. I think that after more than a century of that, many of then actually believe the bullshit they are being fed.

Take for instance the "fact" that they are fed: The Russian army has lost less than 6000 troops while eliminating half of the Ukrainian forces. So, why do they now need more than 300 thousand new troops? Do the fucking maths, Ivan!


--
United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

The mainspring of the conflict was in Kiev in 2014. Ukrainian
nationalists planed and planing to make Ukrainians from Russians living
in Ukraine, make them forgot their language, to cut ties with Russia and Russian culture. Such a policy is cynically correct and workable when
they deal with thousands of people, like Russians in Estonia, for instance. But it creates a critical atomic mass when millions of people are targeted.

Surely you do not believe that crap? Do you even know what happened in Ukraine during Stalin's reign? First he stole all the food from Ukraine and shipped it to Moscow, leaving tens of millions of Ukrainians to starve to death.

Then he made it illegal, punishable by death or deportation to Siberia (the same end result), to speak Ukrainian, only Russian was allowed at school.

So now, thanks only to a bunch of hard core old-timer's resistance, the Ukrainian culture has been able to slowly be restored.

So yes, Russian is still the first language for the vast majority of the Ukrainian people. But just as some former English colonies (USA, Canada and Australia) who even went so far as to kidnap indigenous children and put them in so called boarding schools (USA) where thousands of them died, and those that survived were forced to forget all of their indigenous culture, Stalin also failed in his attempt to totally eradicate the original Ukrainian people's culture and language.

And now, Putin is making a new attempt, picking up where Stalin left.

And of course, you are not taught at school or later, that Ukraine existed 1000 years before Russia? In fact, Russia is part of Ukraine, historically. I happen to know, because the Swedish Vikings actually founded Kiev and made it one of Europe's biggest cities 1500 years ago, when they used it as a steadily growing trading station on their way to Miklag�rd (today's Istanbul) via the rivers that ended with the Dnjepr.


--
United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Alexander,

The main issue now is that everything that Putin touches becomes discredited in the West. No matter what it is.

What do you expect? Threatening with nuclear weapons and insisting it is no idle threat ....

The Ukrainian armed forces have pushed the totality of Russian ground forces back and in places have them running, the Russian air force does not really fly sorties anymore as too many planes and helicopters are shot down, Russia has lost its flagship plus some other vessels ... When Ukrainians are able to do that, don't you think they could have overrun the Donbas separatists with their fingers in their nose if they really wanted to?

When are you leaving for the front?

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Hi Bj?rn Felten!
I read your message on 22-Sep-2022

WD>> I mean the average Russian is not any more brainless than the
WD>> average European I would suspect...

BF> It's called indoctrination. I think that after more than a century
BF> of that, many of then actually believe the bullshit they are being
BF> fed.

BF> Take for instance the "fact" that they are fed: The Russian army
BF> has lost less than 6000 troops while eliminating half of the
BF> Ukrainian forces. So, why do they now need more than 300 thousand
BF> new troops? Do the fucking maths, Ivan!

Both sides are lying shamelessly -- a naive youth. You just choose which
side does it more sweetly for you, and which side you are a fan.
However, I suspect that Swedes have not been Russian fans since the time
of Peter the Great. ;)

Bye Bj?rn!
Alexander
English_tutor 2022
-=<{Linux Astra - Thunderbird 78.6.1 - akReformator_lx}>=-
--- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.6.1
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hello Alexander,

Well, now Putin once again is playing the same card that he
played in Crimea, this time to Anschluss even more
territory. Go figure...

What I cannot wrap my mind around is that he can fool a
complete population with it ... we have all these modern
communication tools. I'm very worried about the lack of
comments, supportive or rejective, from inside R50 and R45
though the links seem to work ... Is everybody really that scared for
reprisals? Does anyone overthere really believe the Putin rethoric? I
mean the average Russian is not any more brainless than the average
European I would suspect...

I repeat you should not mix up Putin and other issues, especially the nationalistic conflict in Ukraine. Putin is a tyrant, OK, but the
conflict in Ukraine gives him great points and trust in Russia because
he positions himself as a defender of the Russian people who is under attack in Donbass. He has actually hid himself behind this noble shield.

The question has been asked -

When are you leaving for the front?

Hundreds of thousands of Russians are fleeing Russia. Any which
way they can. There is a reason why. And that reason is fear. Not
just any kind of fear, but total fear.

The main issue now is that everything that Putin touches becomes discredited in the West.

Russians are being sent to Ukraine. Those Russians are not coming
back, except in body bags. Putin can no longer hide this from his own
people because too many Russians are already dead.

No matter what it is.

You are being told the "special military operation" is going well
in Russia. This has been going on for over seven months, with no end
in sight. Now your leader wants to send an additional 300,000 people,
most of whom who have had little or no military training, to Ukraine.
With the possibility of sending up to a million conscripts as cannon
fodder.

How many dead Russians will it take for you to realize there is a
very real possibility you could also be sent to the front?

Putin has become a bugaboo, and parents scare children with him.

'PUTIN, THE HAGUE IS WAITING FOR YOU'

Large banner taped to a tall building in Vilnius, Lithuania

It is not just Lithuanians who hold Putin to blame for the mess
in Ukraine. He has been ostracized in the United Nations the past
few days, and for good reason.

So many Russians are fleeing Russia that Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia,
and Poland have all banned Russian tourists. And Finland threatening
to do the same, due to the number of Russians with visas.

It is strange to ban people from Russia. Especially those trying
to flee from a madman intent on sending whoever he can find to Ukraine.

Escaping enlistment is not grounds for asylum. Protest and get sent
to the front, total fear. Russia today is one giant prison.

The prime minister of Lithuania explained the situation quite
clearly the other day, saying it was "not the duty of other countries
to save Russia fleeing mobilisation."

So please. Do not blame everything on the West for discrediting
everything that Putin says or does.

After all, Canada and New Zealand came to the rescue for Americans
who fled the draft during the Vietnam War.

For Life,
Lee

--
Donald Trump! Go away! Racist, sexist, anti-gay!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Alexander,

[..]

I repeat you should not mix up Putin and other issues, especially the nationalistic conflict in Ukraine. Putin is a tyrant, OK, but the
conflict in Ukraine gives him great points and trust in Russia because
he positions himself as a defender of the Russian people who is under attack in Donbass. He has actually hid himself behind this noble shield.

Why are so many Russians leaving Russia? Hundreds of thousands have
left just in the past few months, with no intent of returning to Russia. Certainly there has to be a reason.

The main issue now is that everything that Putin touches becomes discredited in the West. No matter what it is. Putin has become a
bugaboo, and parents scare children with him.

Russians leaving Russia are not blaming the West, but their own
president. None of them want to be sent to the front to fight a
senseless war that benefits no one. So why stay?

For Life,
Lee

--
I won't fan the flames of hate, ~Joe Biden

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Ward,

The main issue now is that everything that Putin touches becomes
discredited in the West. No matter what it is.

What do you expect? Threatening with nuclear weapons and insisting it is no
idle threat ....

US President Harry Truman atomized two Japanese cities, showing
the world using such weapons was no idle threat. General Curtis LeMay
wanted Truman to go further by atomizing cities in the USSR.

The Ukrainian armed forces have pushed the totality of Russian ground forces
back and in places have them running, the Russian air force does not really
fly sorties anymore as too many planes and helicopters are shot down, Russia has lost its flagship plus some other vessels ... When Ukrainians are able to do that, don't you think they could have overrun the Donbas separatists with their fingers in their nose if they really wanted to?

A nuclear-armed Ukraine would have put an end to Putin's misrule.
And also millions of innocent lives in Russia. And maybe that was
why Putin ordered his "special military operation" - to rid Ukraine
of its nuclear weapons program (before it had developed real nukes).

When are you leaving for the front?

Over 300,000 Russians have fled Russia, many of them using their
visas to make Finland their new home. Others have continued onward
to Sweden, and beyond. Maybe some have become your new neigbbors
in Belgium ...

For Life,
Lee

--
Sleep With Someone New

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

The mainspring of the conflict was in Kiev in 2014. Ukrainian

That was a popular uprising.

https://tinyurl.com/2a7nw9mz

In all your verbiage you didn't mention the invasion by Russia on Feb. 24th. That is the mainspring of where we are today.

nationalists planed and planing to make Ukrainians from Russians living
in Ukraine, make them forgot their language, to cut ties with Russia and Russian culture.

That is not true, it is yet another talking point.

The doctrine that all people living in Ukraine are Ukrainians is false
as saying that all people in Estonia are Estonians. Thr west should
admit it long ago and treat Ukraine as a country of two nations.

The people of Ukraine are free to be who/what they want to be. I don't think they want to be Ruzzian.


--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hello Bj�rn,

So .... how is it going with the uprooting of neo-Nazism in Ukraine?
Everything going as planned with the war?

The older I get, the more I can see how history repeats itself, and the more
sorry I become when I see how few people don't even see it.

Europe is turning to the right. Not just a little bit, but full tilt.
Spain, France, Austria, Switzerland, Hungary, Poland, England, Denmark,
and many others. Finland almost joined the ranks, and Sweden just made
the list a week ago.

On Sunday there will be elections in Italy. And the favorite to become
prime minister is Giorgia Meloni, a 45-year-old woman representing a
far-right party that is expected to win an outright majority of seats.

Imagine that. Italy's 70th government since 1946, being led by a woman,
the female version of Il Duce. Maybe she will call herself La Douche.

In any event, this is getting to be just like old times. The only
thing left is for Germany to find its new Fuehrer ...

In 2014 it was obvious to me that Putin was using the playbook from a certain Austrian corporal, whose name we are not allowed to mention, because of Godwin.

You don't understand. In 2014, Putin carved out his own version of
Kuwait and annexed it as part of Russia.

More recently, Putin borrowed an idea from the GWB playbook, using
a pre-emptive first strike in order to bring about regime change in
Iraq.

It took the USA ten years to learn that Iraq was not worth the effort.
And twenty years to learn that Afghanistan was not worth the effort.

I wonder how long it will take Putin to figure things out?

Even if it happened ten years before I was even born, we actually study history here in Sweden. So, the 1938 Austrian Anschluss referendum, with all it's 99+% results...

The one redeeming quality the Austrian corporal had was bringing
Russians and Ukrainians together ...

Well, now Putin once again is playing the same card that he played in Crimea, this time to Anschluss even more territory. Go figure...

Well, he is bringing both sides to the same field of battle ...

For Life,
Lee

--
Say it loud! Say it clear! / Refugees are welcome here!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Bj�rn,

I mean the average Russian is not any more brainless than the average
European I would suspect...

It's called indoctrination. I think that after more than a century of that,
many of then actually believe the bullshit they are being fed.

Poland ceased to exist for 400 years. And yet Poles have managed to
retain their own language, religion, and culture, as well as recreate
their own country.

Take for instance the "fact" that they are fed: The Russian army has lost less than 6000 troops while eliminating half of the Ukrainian forces. So, why do they now need more than 300 thousand new troops? Do the fucking maths, Ivan!

"All comedy is based on tragedy." ~William Shakespeare

Perhaps Putin forgot that Zelensky is a professional comedian?

For Life,
Lee

--
Pork. The One You Love.

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hi, Lee Lofaso!
I read your message from 23.09.2022 22:01

ak>> I repeat you should not mix up Putin and other issues, especially
ak>> the nationalistic conflict in Ukraine. Putin is a tyrant, OK, but
ak>> the conflict in Ukraine gives him great points and trust in Russia
ak>> because he positions himself as a defender of the Russian people
ak>> who is under attack in Donbass. He has actually hid himself behind
ak>> this noble shield.

LL> The question has been asked -
LL> When are you leaving for the front?

When Ukrainian students, women and pensioners will be drafted -- you
probably get the answer on your question. ;=)

LL> Hundreds of thousands of Russians are fleeing Russia. Any which way
LL> they can. There is a reason why. And that reason is fear. Not just
LL> any kind of fear, but total fear.

Well, IMHO its a lie in general - first, Russians are now prohibited to
get in Europe, second Baltic states and Finland have already refused to
accept those who run from the draft. They are afraid of Russians in
general, it is a mental illness, probably.

LL> Russians are being sent to Ukraine. Those Russians are not coming
LL> back, except in body bags. Putin can no longer hide this from his
LL> own people because too many Russians are already dead.

The only reason why so many Russians support Putin today is that Ukraine
holds Nazi policy in eastern Ukraine since 2014. Nazism and Russians are incompatible, and many Russians are ready to fight to the end. Putin
uses the situation as a shield.

LL> You are being told the "special military operation" is going well
LL> in Russia. This has been going on for over seven months, with no
LL> end in sight. Now your leader wants to send an additional 300,000
LL> people, most of whom who have had little or no military training,
LL> to Ukraine. With the possibility of sending up to a million
LL> conscripts as cannon fodder.

This situations has no other options after Zelensky declared
mobilization in Ukraine. He could solve the problem without it, but he preferred to throw into the war furnace millions of Ukrainians and he
feels himself Napoleon. Whereas there is no reason for such a war at
all. Zelensky and nationalists are stubborn as rams.

Bye, Lee!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Alan Ianson!
I read your message from 23.09.2022 22:37

??>>> The mainspring of the conflict was in Kiev in 2014.
??>>> Ukrainian
AI> That was a popular uprising.

So was the storm of Capitol? Why does the US law persecute them?

Bye, Alan!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

That was a popular uprising.

So was the storm of Capitol? Why does the US law persecute them?

That was not a poular uprising. They are not persecuted they are prosecuted.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hi, Dale Shipp!
I read your message from 24.09.2022 02:28

AK>> Nationality is not a gene or place factor. Nationality is how a
AK>> person thinks, speaks, what books he reads, what songs he sings.
AK>> To reformat forcefully people to new nationality is a crime.
AK>> People in a free country should choose themselves, without fines
AK>> and repression.

DS> You are confusing Nationality and culture. Nationality is based on
DS> the nation in which you live.

If a person moved to another country - he changed his nationality? ;-)
If a Jew moves to Finland he becomes a Finn?

Bye, Dale!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Russians are now prohibited to
get in Europe, second Baltic states and Finland have already refused to accept those who run from the draft. They are afraid of Russians in general, it is a mental illness, probably.

That is slightly incorrect, to use an understatement.

Several EU-countries, mine too, have declared that draft-dodgers are not welcome, will not get visa, not even for humanitarian reasons.

The reasons are simple:

1) None of these people lifted a finger against the illegal invasion and the war in Ukraine until they felt the heat themselves. Clean up your own mess at home. If all the disgusted flee, only the disgusting remain.

2) Russians fleeing Russia to dodge the draft do not constitute a humanitarian crisis. Ukrainians whom fled Ukraine to run from a war and to save themselves "do" constitute a humanitarian crisis. They are true refugees and are helped here. Millions have fled and are warmly welcomed, they are helped, sheltered, fed, they take part in local social life, are helped to find a job to support themselves until they can return ... if they so wish. Complete emergency villages with all utilities have been built ... children are learning the language and go to school here.

3) Taking in Russian draft dodgers would be an insult towards the Ukrainian refugess. Russian draft-dodgers are not refugees according to the UN Convention. The European budget is not going to pay for millions of draft dodgers.

Russians can still apply for visa.

Zelensky and nationalists are stubborn as rams.

Russia invaded a peaceful member of the international society and in doing so violated the UN Charter of which it is a subscriber bound to its wording.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Hi, Alan Ianson!
I read your message from 26.09.2022 09:37

AI>>> That was a popular uprising.
ak>> So was the storm of the Capitol? Why does the US law persecute them?
AI> That was not a poular uprising. They are not persecuted they are
AI> prosecuted.

What the difference between the storm of the Capital and Kiev events in
2014?

Bye, Alan!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

On 09-26-22 09:41, Alexander Koryagin <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Ukraine National Ant <=-

You are confusing Nationality and culture. Nationality is based on
the nation in which you live.

If a person moved to another country - he changed his nationality? ;-)

Only if he declares that new country to be his permanent residence and
loyalty. If an American moves to England for a job for a few years,
they do not become British but remain as American. But if they move to
England and declare that to be their new loyalty, then they become
British.

If a Jew moves to Finland he becomes a Finn?

You have again confused nationality and culture. Being a Jew is not a nationality. The best answer to your question is yes, they become a
Finn but they are also still a Jew.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:50:04, 27 Sep 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 26.09.2022 15:12

ak>> Russians are now prohibited to get in Europe, second Baltic states
ak>> and Finland have already refused to accept those who run from the
ak>> draft. They are afraid of Russians in general, it is a mental
ak>> illness, probably.

WD> That is slightly incorrect, to use an understatement.

WD> Several EU-countries, mine too, have declared that draft-dodgers
WD> are not welcome, will not get visa, not even for humanitarian
WD> reasons.

WD> The reasons are simple:

WD> 1) None of these people lifted a finger against the illegal
WD> invasion and the war in Ukraine until they felt the heat
WD> themselves. Clean up your own mess at home. If all the disgusted
WD> flee, only the disgusting remain.

WD> 2) Russians fleeing Russia to dodge the draft do not constitute a
WD> humanitarian crisis. Ukrainians whom fled Ukraine to run from a war
WD> and to save themselves "do" constitute a humanitarian crisis. They
WD> are true refugees and are helped here. Millions have fled and are
WD> warmly welcomed, they are helped, sheltered, fed, they take part in
WD> local social life, are helped to find a job to support themselves
WD> until they can return... if they so wish. Complete emergency
WD> villages with all utilities have been built... children are
WD> learning the language and go to school here.

WD> 3) Taking in Russian draft dodgers would be an insult towards the
WD> Ukrainian refugess. Russian draft-dodgers are not refugees
WD> according to the UN Convention. The European budget is not going to
WD> pay for millions of draft dodgers.

WD> Russians can still apply for visa.

Are you a counsel for the defence? ;-)

ak>> Zelensky and nationalists are stubborn as rams.

WD> Russia invaded a peaceful member of the international society and
WD> in doing so violated the UN Charter of which it is a subscriber
WD> bound to its wording.

A peaceful state doesn't fight with its citizens for 8 years.

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Dale Shipp!
I read your message from 27.09.2022 00:45

DS>> You are confusing Nationality and culture. Nationality is based on
DS>> the nation in which you live.

AK>> If a person moved to another country - he changed his
AK>> nationality? ;-)

DS> Only if he declares that new country to be his permanent residence
DS> and loyalty. If an American moves to England for a job for a few
DS> years, they do not become British but remain as American. But if
DS> they move to England and declare that to be their new loyalty, then
DS> they become British.

Who are Scotts and the the Welsh in the UK?

AK>> If a Jew moves to Finland he becomes a Finn?

DS> You have again confused nationality and culture. Being a Jew is not
DS> a nationality. The best answer to your question is yes, they become
DS> a Finn but they are also still a Jew.

Jew is not nationality! A new word in horsed aviation, as we put it in
Russia.


Bye, Dale!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

What the difference between the storm of the Capital and Kiev events in
2014?

In Kyiv in 2014 the people of Ukraine spoke, they did what they wanted/needed to do.

It was not the people speaking at the capitol on Jan 6, 2021, it was a group of MAGA trumpists supported by right wing groups like the proud boys trying to
overturn the results of the election. They were acting against the people.

Big difference.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Alexander,

Russians can still apply for visa.

Are you a counsel for the defence? ;-)

Next year April I'm co-organiser of a world-cup acrobatic gymnastics. We'll see how many visas will be issued. If that works, then try to get here with overland borders closed and the only flights are via Istanbul, Abu Dhabi, Doha and Dubai.

A peaceful state doesn't fight with its citizens for 8 years.

Russia/USSR has been fighting its citizens since 'forever'.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Alexander,

Who are Scotts and the the Welsh in the UK?

The Scotts and the Welsh in the European Union felt that they should be given a greater voice in European decision-making. That is why the European Committee of the Regions was established under the Maastricht Treaty, and Member States were allowed to be represented in the Council of the EU by ministers from their regional governments.

Scotland and Wales in recent years have not started separatist wars nor have they shot down innocent civilian airliners.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Alan Ianson wrote to alexander koryagin <=-

What the difference between the storm of the Capital and Kiev events in 2014?

In Kyiv in 2014 the people of Ukraine spoke, they did what they wanted/needed to do.

It was not the people speaking at the capitol on Jan 6, 2021, it
was a group of MAGA trumpists supported by right wing groups like
the proud boys trying to overturn the results of the election.
They were acting against the people.

Spoken like a good little liberal dog.

Your masters have trained you well, and you've memorized the mandatory
talking points (and can regurgitate them on command). Good job.



... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

What the difference between the storm of the Capital and Kiev events in
2014?

In Kyiv in 2014 the people of Ukraine spoke, they did what they
wanted/needed to do.

It was not the people speaking at the capitol on Jan 6, 2021, it
was a group of MAGA trumpists supported by right wing groups like
the proud boys trying to overturn the results of the election.
They were acting against the people.

Spoken like a good little liberal dog.

Please don't get emotional, Dan.

Your masters have trained you well, and you've memorized the mandatory talking points (and can regurgitate them on command). Good job.

I have no master. I am free to speak my thoughts and opinions, can you?

What do you think happened on Jan 6?

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

I actually starting typing a response to Alan's question, but then realized..... it would just be more time wasted. Not worth the effort.

Your original reply was just as worthless.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

On 27 Sep 22 11:06:54, Alan Ianson said the following to Dan Clough:

What do you think happened on Jan 6?

You first went to the bathroom to change your feminine protection before returning to the keyboard to whine loudly in the Politics echo once again about how Trump affects your daily life as a Canadian.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

What do you think happened on Jan 6?

You first went to the bathroom to change your feminine protection before returning to the keyboard to whine loudly in the Politics echo once again about how Trump affects your daily life as a Canadian.

More emotional blah blah blah.

That was a simple/serious question. What do you think happened on Jan 6?

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Nick Andre wrote to Alan Ianson <=-

On 27 Sep 22 11:06:54, Alan Ianson said the following to Dan
Clough:

What do you think happened on Jan 6?

You first went to the bathroom to change your feminine protection
before returning to the keyboard to whine loudly in the Politics
echo once again about how Trump affects your daily life as a
Canadian.

<cleaning coffee from keyboard>

HAR! Spot on, perfect.

I actually starting typing a response to Alan's question, but then realized..... it would just be more time wasted. Not worth the effort.



... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Hello Alexander,

You are confusing Nationality and culture. Nationality is based on
the nation in which you live.

If a person moved to another country - he changed his
nationality? ;-)

The USA does not recognize dual citizenship (except for those
from Vatican City and Israel).

Edward Snowden moved to Russia. And was granted full Russian
citizen by Vladimir Putin. Edward Snowden claims he has not, and
will not, relinquish his US citizenship. So what nationality is
Edward Snowden?

Only if he declares that new country to be his permanent residence
and loyalty. If an American moves to England for a job for a few
years, they do not become British but remain as American. But if
they move to England and declare that to be their new loyalty, then
they become British.

Who are Scotts and the the Welsh in the UK?

Scots are rulers of Scotland. Welsh are the real rulers of Wales,
as even Charles III knows from having to recite his oath in Welsh
in order to become king.

If a Jew moves to Finland he becomes a Finn?

You have again confused nationality and culture. Being a Jew is not
a nationality. The best answer to your question is yes, they become
a Finn but they are also still a Jew.

Jew is not nationality! A new word in horsed aviation, as we put it in Russia.

The Wandering Jew can be whatever nationality he/she wants ...

For Life,
Lee

--
Say it loud! Say it clear! / Refugees are welcome here!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Ward,

Who are Scotts and the the Welsh in the UK?

The Scotts and the Welsh in the European Union felt that they should be given a greater voice in European decision-making. That is why the European
Committee of the Regions was established under the Maastricht Treaty, and Member States were allowed to be represented in the Council of the EU by ministers from their regional governments.

Scots were the reason why Roman soldiers were never able to occupy
Scotland. Hence the need to build Hadrian's Wall, which still stands
today.

Scotland and Wales in recent years have not started separatist wars nor have
they shot down innocent civilian airliners.

Scotland will go its own way when Charles III abdicates.
So will Wales, as the real Prince of Wales claims his rightful
title as King.

For Life,
Lee

--
They say `Yes, Trump'! / We say `No, Trump!'

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

On 09-27-22 09:20, Alexander Koryagin <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Ukraine National Ant <=-

Who are Scotts and the the Welsh in the UK?

Their nationality is British, their culture is Scotish and Welsh.

If a Jew moves to Finland he becomes a Finn?

You have again confused nationality and culture. Being a Jew is not
a nationality. The best answer to your question is yes, they become
a Finn but they are also still a Jew.

Jew is not nationality!

DUH -- that is what I said.

A new word in horsed aviation, as we put it in Russia.

That makes no sense to me. Try again.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:26:50, 28 Sep 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

Hi Alan Ianson!
I read your message on 28-Sep-2022

ak>> What the difference between the storm of the Capitol and Kiev
ak>> events in 2014?

AI> In Kyiv in 2014 the people of Ukraine spoke, they did what they
AI> wanted/needed to do.

What what did Americans? �-)

AI> It was not the people speaking at the capitol on Jan 6, 2021, it
AI> was a group of MAGA trumpists supported by right wing groups like
AI> the proud boys trying to overturn the results of the election. They
AI> were acting against the people.
AI> Big difference.

So it was an extremest "group" in Kiev in 2014. The difference was that Yanukovich allowed them to do havoc hoping to get peace by negotiations.

Bye Alan!
Alexander
fidonews 2022

--- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.6.1
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi Ward Dossche!
I read your message on 28-Sep-2022

WD> Scotland and Wales in recent years have not started separatist wars
WD> nor have they shot down innocent civilian airliners.

You pretend not to see obvious things -- the war in Ukraine had been
started when Ukraininan troops moved to eastern, Russian speaking part
of Ukraine. No peaceful solution had been taken, because those who
captured power in Kiev had only one way of acting - violence. As for the plane, Ukraine had much more gains from it. Rebels had no reason to shot
down the plane which flew to the Russian border.

Bye Ward!
Alexander
fidonews 2022
-=<{Linux Astra - Thunderbird 78.6.1 - akReformator_lx}>=-

--- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.6.1
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi Lee Lofaso!
I read your message on 28-Sep-2022

AK>>>> If a person moved to another country - he changed his
AK>>>> nationality? ;-)

LL> The USA does not recognize dual citizenship (except for those from
LL> Vatican City and Israel).

LL> Edward Snowden moved to Russia. And was granted full Russian
LL> citizen by Vladimir Putin. Edward Snowden claims he has not, and
LL> will not, relinquish his US citizenship. So what nationality is
LL> Edward Snowden?

I strogly believe that a person should define his nationality himself.
Paper or other documents mean little. And vice versa, if a person
doesn't recognize that he is, for instance, a Russian -- it means he is
not a Russian.

Bye Lee!
Alexander
fidonews 2022
-=<{Linux Astra - Thunderbird 78.6.1 - akReformator_lx}>=-

--- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.6.1
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

In Kyiv in 2014 the people of Ukraine spoke, they did what they
wanted/needed to do.

What what did Americans? �-)

Those at the capital that day were extremists led the by Donald Trump.

It was not the people speaking at the capitol on Jan 6, 2021, it
was a group of MAGA trumpists supported by right wing groups like
the proud boys trying to overturn the results of the election. They
were acting against the people.
Big difference.

So it was an extremest "group" in Kiev in 2014. The difference was that Yanukovich allowed them to do havoc hoping to get peace by negotiations.

No, it was not an extremist group in Kyiv. It was the people. Yanukovich knew his position was not popular with the people but he went forward with it anyway and look where it got him.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hi Dale Shipp!
I read your message on 28-Sep-2022

AK>> Who are Scotts and the the Welsh in the UK?
DS> Their nationality is British, their culture is Scotish and Welsh.

British nationality IMHO is artificial, as was "Soviet people". And in
the world too, a person from London is rather an Englishman from England
than a Briton.

Bye Dale!
Alexander
fidonews 2022
-=<{Linux Astra - Thunderbird 78.6.1 - akReformator_lx}>=-

--- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.6.1
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Who are Scotts and the the Welsh in the UK?

Scots are rulers of Scotland. Welsh are the real rulers of Wales,
as even Charles III knows from having to recite his oath in Welsh
in order to become king.

Charles recited it in Welsh because he speaks the language fluent, he did so because he could, not because he "had to". He was, up until that point, the Prince of Wales.

Lilybet never spoke Welsh, never recited the oath in Welsh ... she even never went to school.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Scots were the reason why Roman soldiers were never able to occupy Scotland. Hence the need to build Hadrian's Wall, which still stands
today.

That is a misconception, just as the Chinese wall is.

Only portions remain with large gaps in between and it doesn't exactly "stand" ... here and there section remain in the hills ... A lot of it was recycled in construction. The average height originally being just 12 feet, 4 meters.

Hadrian's wall was not an impregnable fortification. the Scotts just walked past it as they saw fit. It served as toll gates and military was only useful to slow down an attacking force .... As the Scotts were a tribal people without unified structure in those days, they never could assemble a real army.

The same with the Chinese wall which is not one continuous big construction but only has sections where it was expected that an attacking force could move.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Alexander,

As for the
plane, Ukraine had much more gains from it. Rebels had no reason to shot down the plane which flew to the Russian border.

The shrapnel taken from the bodies of the cockpit crew removes all doubt of "what" it is that brought the plane down ... and Ukraine did not possess that weapon.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

What the difference between the storm of the Capitol and Kiev
events in 2014?

In Kyiv in 2014 the people of Ukraine spoke, they did what they
wanted/needed to do.

What what did Americans? �-)

I think you need to understand the American electoral system to fully understand the intended meaning of the events on Jan.6th 2021 in Washington DC... and I call upon my American friends here to correct me where I'm wrong.

The American electoral system is timed by law ...

An election for president of the United States happens every four years on the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November. That is to say, that day the electoral college is elected.

That electoral college then votes. Since the mid-20th century, Congress has met in a Joint Session every four years on January 6 at 1:00 p.m. to tally votes in the Electoral College. The sitting Vice President presides over the meeting and opens the votes from each state in alphabetical order.

Odd occasions sometimes happen on that January 6th as in 2001 Al Gore, who was a presidential candidate, announced the election of his opponent.

Back to 2021 ... there was a carefully planned strategy by groups of citizens (the Proud Boys, the Oath Keepers, ...) to converge on Washington on January 6th. I have Republican friends in Montana and in group they booked airplane trips to Washington DC. They sent around videos and photos while in flight Jan.5th and I think no-one realised this was going to be just more than some banner waving and shouting of slogans.

Steve Bannon had previously said on January 5th that "all hell is going to break loose tomorrow". It did.

At the time of the storming of the Capitol, Trump was holding a speech at the Elipse, some 2.5km away and ordered his driver to take him to the Cqpitol. The driver refused explaining he had no authority upon which Trump attacked the driver.

The intention clearly was to arrive by the Capitol, by 1pm, when the mob of thousands were storming it. The Capitol police were already overwhelmed and now suddenly would have to protect the President. Trump could climb the stairs, address the crowd, most likely intending to enter the House of Representatives' chambers or the Senate and declare himself to be the winner of the presidential election ... it was intended to be no less than a violent overthrow of a democratic process and planned at the White House evidence suggests Dec.18th...

It did not work because of 2 people:

1. A very courageous driver of the Presidential limousine
2. Vice-president Pence who refused to cooperate ... Trump had said he should be hanged and the mob that stormed the Capitol actually planned that.

The rest is history.

Now, please, in as much detail, please explain to me what happened in 2014 and how this in any way compares to January 6th 2021...

Have a nice day trying.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Hi Ward Dossche!
I read your message on 28-Sep-2022

ak>> As for the plane, Ukraine had much more gains from it. Rebels had
ak>> no reason to shot down the plane which flew to the Russian border.

WD> The shrapnel taken from the bodies of the cockpit crew removes all
WD> doubt of "what" it is that brought the plane down... and Ukraine
WD> did not possess that weapon.

In reality, Ukraine has had the same anti-aircraft BUK missles as Russia
has (made in the USSR, BTW). And there are many facts that Ukrainian
BUKs were in Donbass at that time -- because Ukrainians publicly claimed
that Russian planes violated their airspace.

Bye Ward!
Alexander
fidonews 2022
-=<{Linux Astra - Thunderbird 78.6.1 - akReformator_lx}>=-

--- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.6.1
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Alexander,

The shrapnel taken from the bodies of the cockpit crew removes all ak>WD> doubt of "what" it is that brought the plane down... and Ukraine
did not possess that weapon.

In reality, Ukraine has had the same anti-aircraft BUK missles as Russia has (made in the USSR, BTW). And there are many facts that Ukrainian
BUKs were in Donbass at that time -- because Ukrainians publicly claimed that Russian planes violated their airspace.

Bollocks.

The downing of MH17 has been scientifically attributed to a Russian BUK operated from within the Russian controlled space of the Donbas, incl. radar tracking of the missile, satellite photos, intercepted radio-communications, wreckage fragments, autopsies, ...

Russia's denial is as sickening as the whole Ukrainian events since Feb of this year...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Hi Ward Dossche!
I read your message on 29-Sep-2022

WD>>> The shrapnel taken from the bodies of the cockpit crew removes
WD>>> all doubt of "what" it is that brought the plane down... and
WD>>> Ukraine did not possess that weapon.
ak>> In reality, Ukraine has had the same anti-aircraft BUK missles as
ak>> Russia has (made in the USSR, BTW). And there are many facts that
ak>> Ukrainian BUKs were in Donbass at that time -- because Ukrainians
ak>> publicly claimed that Russian planes violated their airspace.

WD> Bollocks.

WD> The downing of MH17 has been scientifically attributed to a Russian
WD> BUK operated from within the Russian controlled space of the
WD> Donbas, incl. radar tracking of the missile, satellite photos,
WD> intercepted radio-communications, wreckage fragments, autopsies,...

Whose radars did track that missile? It looks like a fairy tale.
Ukrainian side didn't have such recordings, Russia provided its own
radar data which was ignored by the court. Whose radars do constanly
observe Russia? Aliens? Satellite photos were not presented in court.
As for the radio-communications they belonged to those people who could
not have a reliable information. They heard that some plane was downed
and very gladly boasted to each other that another fucking Ukrainian
military plane had been downed.

Bye Ward!
Alexander
fidonews 2022
-=<{Linux Astra - Thunderbird 78.6.1 - akReformator_lx}>=-

--- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.6.1
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi Ward Dossche!
I read your message on 29-Sep-2022

ak>>>> What the difference between the storm of the Capitol and Kiev
ak>>>> events in 2014?
AI>>> In Kyiv in 2014 the people of Ukraine spoke, they did what they
AI>>> wanted/needed to do.
ak>> What what did Americans? �-)

WD> I think you need to understand the American electoral system to
WD> fully understand the intended meaning of the events on Jan.6th 2021
WD> in Washington DC... and I call upon my American friends here to
WD> correct me where I'm wrong.

WD> The American electoral system is timed by law...

WD> An election for president of the United States happens every four
WD> years on the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November. That
WD> is to say, that day the electoral college is elected.

WD> That electoral college then votes. Since the mid-20th century,
WD> Congress has met in a Joint Session every four years on January 6
WD> at 1:00 p.m. to tally votes in the Electoral College. The sitting
WD> Vice President presides over the meeting and opens the votes from
WD> each state in alphabetical order.

WD> Odd occasions sometimes happen on that January 6th as in 2001 Al
WD> Gore, who was a presidential candidate, announced the election of
WD> his opponent.

WD> Back to 2021... there was a carefully planned strategy by groups of
WD> citizens (the Proud Boys, the Oath Keepers,...) to converge on
WD> Washington on January 6th. I have Republican friends in Montana and
WD> in group they booked airplane trips to Washington DC. They sent
WD> around videos and photos while in flight Jan.5th and I think no-one
WD> realised this was going to be just more than some banner waving and
WD> shouting of slogans.

WD> Steve Bannon had previously said on January 5th that "all hell is
WD> going to break loose tomorrow". It did.

WD> At the time of the storming of the Capitol, Trump was holding a
WD> speech at the Elipse, some 2.5km away and ordered his driver to
WD> take him to the Cqpitol. The driver refused explaining he had no
WD> authority upon which Trump attacked the driver.

WD> The intention clearly was to arrive by the Capitol, by 1pm, when
WD> the mob of thousands were storming it. The Capitol police were
WD> already overwhelmed and now suddenly would have to protect the
WD> President. Trump could climb the stairs, address the crowd, most
WD> likely intending to enter the House of Representatives' chambers or
WD> the Senate and declare himself to be the winner of the presidential
WD> election... it was intended to be no less than a violent overthrow
WD> of a democratic process and planned at the White House evidence
WD> suggests Dec.18th...

WD> It did not work because of 2 people:
WD> 1. A very courageous driver of the Presidential limousine 2. Vice-
WD> president Pence who refused to cooperate... Trump had said he
WD> should be hanged and the mob that stormed the Capitol actually
WD> planned that.

WD> Now, please, in as much detail, please explain to me what happened
WD> in 2014 and how this in any way compares to January 6th 2021...
WD> Have a nice day trying.

What did they do? They built a military camp in Kiev center, blocked the Ukrainian parliament and allowed to get in only those people who
supported their claims to oust Yanukovuch. There was fierce fighting
with the police. In the US, in such a case, the police for sure would
have used automatic weapon to disperse the crowd. That's why the US
position was cynical form the start. The US threated Yanikovich with
sanctions if he dare to disperse the crowd by force.

In the day when a peaceful agreement (to stop violence) had been
achieved (with the western and Russia mediation) this crowd had stormed
the Ukrainian president palace and forced Yanukovich to flee. It was a classical unlawful coup, Then, those who were allowed in parliament
issued a law to oust Yanukovich as President.

You probably know that Yanukovich won elections supported in (then)
Ukrainian Crimea, southern and eastern areas -- all these areas had not accepted the coup and refused to obey the new Kiev authority. That was a
start of the present day havoc.

Bye Ward!
Alexander
fidonews 2022
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Alexander,

It was a classical unlawful coup,

Any coup is declared unlawful by the ones being removed from power.

Do not forget, one side's terrorists are the other side's freedom fighters.

You probably know that Yanukovich won elections supported in (then) Ukrainian Crimea, southern and eastern areas -- all these areas had not accepted the coup and refused to obey the new Kiev authority. That was a start of the present day havoc.

I know that Yanukovich won the 2010 elections ... that's 12 years ago.

If I read up on events there was a desire by Ukrainians, also the ones that voted for him, to position Ukraine closer to the EU. The shit started hitting the fan when Yanukovich turned to Moscow instead.

The Ukrainians knew very well what a regime under the wing of the Kremlin, as a vassal state like Belarus, would be and made it clear that they did not want that, not even those who voted for the man.

Yanukovich fled the country for Moscow on February 21, 2014.

One day later, on the 22nd, the Ukrainian parliament voted to remove him from his post on the grounds that he "has restrained himself from performing his constitutional duties" and effectively as such resigned .

On June 18th 2015, Yanukovich was officially deprived of the title of president by the parliament.

In polls conducted since his departure from office he is regarded
as one of the worst presidents in Ukrainian history

All that is "historical fact" and widely documented and I don't understand how the minds of people in Russia could have become infested and dominated by the vile propaganda without any possibility for another opinion ...

Take care,

\%/@rd

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Hi Ward Dossche!
I read your message on 30-Sep-2022

WD> If I read up on events there was a desire by Ukrainians, also the
WD> ones that voted for him, to position Ukraine closer to the EU. The
WD> shit started hitting the fan when Yanukovich turned to Moscow
WD> instead.

Yanukovich held a balanced policy, as towards West/Russia, as towards west/east in his own country. It was he, BTW, the initiator to associate Ukraine with the EU. He hadn't refused from it but postponed the
association when he decided that the agreement was unprofitable for Ukraine.
As for relations with Moscow -- Ukraine and Russia have always been
close partners. Ukrainian ultra-nationalists (mainly from western
Ukraine regions) have always hated this situation. They wanted to impose
their will and ideas on all Ukraine.

WD> The Ukrainians knew very well what a regime under the wing of the
WD> Kremlin, as a vassal state like Belarus, would be and made it clear
WD> that they did not want that, not even those who voted for the man.

You think it as you wish to think. But I repeat, that southern and
eastern Ukraine have always attracted to Russia and Russian culture. So,
don't tell on behalf all Ukrainian people -- it is totally wrong. A good Fidonet phrase "don't speak for all".

WD> Yanukovich fled the country for Moscow on February 21, 2014.

Indeed he ran saving his life. He knew that extremists would not give
him a fair treatment.

WD> One day later, on the 22nd, the Ukrainian parliament voted to
WD> remove him from his post on the grounds that he "has restrained
WD> himself from performing his constitutional duties" and effectively
WD> as such resigned.

WD> On June 18th 2015, Yanukovich was officially deprived of the title
WD> of president by the parliament.

You know perfectly well that if a totalitarian authority wants to pass a
law via the parliament -- it will success. The parliamentarians were
also filtered, many didn't want to be expelled speaking against.

WD> In polls conducted since his departure from office he is regarded
WD> as one of the worst presidents in Ukrainian history.

It could be for different reasons, but the main reason was that
Yanukovich had given up his country to bastards without any resistance.
For this very reason many Russians still hate Gorbachev. Level of
corruption was also high in Ukraine. But they could not even expect what
they are going to get instead.

WD> All that is "historical fact" and widely documented and I don't
WD> understand how the minds of people in Russia could have become
WD> infested and dominated by the vile propaganda without any
WD> possibility for another opinion...

History is written by winners. ;=)

Bye Ward!
Alexander
fidonews 2022
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History is written by winners. ;=)

"History is written by those who have hanged heroes" ... Robert the Bruce in the movie "Braveheart".

\%/@rd

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Hello alexander!

30 Sep 22 10:32, alexander koryagin wrote to Ward Dossche:

Yanukovich fled the country for Moscow on February 21, 2014.

Indeed he ran saving his life. He knew that extremists would not give
him a fair treatment.

Ah, fair treatment is certainly something one might expect in Russia...


Regards,
Gerrit

... 12:14PM up 191 days, 17:20, 8 users, load averages: 1.19, 0.91, 0.70

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Hi, Gerrit Kuehn!
I read your message from 30.09.2022 13:14

WD>>> Yanukovich fled the country for Moscow on February 21,
WD>>> 2014.
ak>> Indeed he ran saving his life. He knew that extremists
ak>> would not give him a fair treatment.
GK> Ah, fair treatment is certainly something one might expect in
GK> Russia...

Certainly Snowen was clever than poor Assange ;=)

Bye, Gerrit!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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Hi, Michiel Van Der Vlist!
I read your message from 30.09.2022 14:38

MV> Red ants and black ants do not fight.
MV> Until you start shaking the glass jar they are locked in.
MV> Putin shakes the jar. And he shakes and shakes and shakes...

Ukraine had a lot ways and time to prevent the war. But unfortunately it
has been led by a clown-idiot who thinks that he is Napoleon and Russian people don't deserve any concessions.
A poor mistake, he is not worth a single farthing as a politician.
Actually it framed Ukraine under the war instead of making what he must
do - prevent the escalation politically.

Bye, Michiel!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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Hi, all!
I read your message from 03.10.2022 10:53

WD>>>> Yanukovich fled the country for Moscow on February
WD>>>> 21, 2014.
ak>>> Indeed he ran saving his life. He knew that extremists
ak>>> would not give him a fair treatment.
GK>> Ah, fair treatment is certainly something one might expect
GK>> in Russia...
ak> Certainly Snowen was clever than poor Assange ;=)

Snowden, I meant, of course. :)

Bye, all!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
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Hello alexander!

03 Oct 22 10:53, alexander koryagin wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:

Certainly Snowen was clever than poor Assange ;=)

Who knows? Ever talked to one of them privately?


Regards,
Gerrit

... 11:16AM up 194 days, 16:22, 8 users, load averages: 0.35, 0.57, 0.66

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Hello Alexander,

Red ants and black ants do not fight.
Until you start shaking the glass jar they are locked in.
Putin shakes the jar. And he shakes and shakes and shakes...

Ukraine had a lot ways and time to prevent the war. But unfortunately it has
been led by a clown-idiot who thinks that he is Napoleon and Russian people
don't deserve any concessions.

Both sides are to blame. Not one side or the other, but both.
Along with others who encouraged their own favorite side to start
or continue the violence. There are no innocents in this war, or
whatever you want to call it. As Professor Chomsky explains -

https://chomsky.info/20220414/

A poor mistake, he is not worth a single farthing as a politician. Actually it framed Ukraine under the war instead of making what he must do -
prevent the escalation politically.

Again, read Professor Chomsky's remarks. Although he sides with
Ukraine in regards to which is the aggressor, the points he makes
are valid.

And then ask yourself, has anything really changed since he made
those comments?

For Life,
Lee

--
Not my president!

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