Hello Everybody,

"War is politics by other means."
~ Carl Von Clausewitz, historian

"There is a winter, you know, in Russia. ... Hitler forgot about
this Russian winter. He must have been very loosely educated."
~ Winston Churchill, after the German army's 1941-1942 winter there

"Whenever avoidance of war has been the primary objective of a
group of powers, the international system has been at the mercy
of its most ruthless member."
~ Finnish President Sauli Niinisto, 1 January 2022

Neville Chamberlain remains almost as famous as Adolf Hitler.

"We have shown that we have learnt from the past. We will not let
go of our room for maneuver."
~ Finnish President Sauli Niinisto, 1 January 2022

Finland showed the invading Soviet army what it could do in the
1939-1940 Winter War. Perhaps Vladmimir Putin needed a reminder?

In 1975, in Finland, 35 nations (including the Soviet Union)
got together and signed the Helsinki Final Act. All 35 nations,
including the Soviet Union, affirmed "rights inherent in and
encompassed by (each nation's) sovereignty" - including "the
right to be ... party to treaties of alliance."

Oh well. So much for Vladimir Putin's complaint about NATO.

"This is the last territorial demand I have to make in Europe."
~ Adolf Hitler, 26 September 1938 (four days before the 30 September
1938 Munich conference ratified the dismemberment of Czechoslovakia)

And Italians had thought Pinocchio had a long nose.

"Do not believe those who want you to fear Russia, shouting that
other regions will follow Crimea. We do not want to divide Ukraine,
we do not need that."
~ Vladimir Putin, 18 March 2014

Seems like Vladimir Putin also has a very long nose. But then,
what his definition of "need" is may be very different from others,
as his own "needs" tend to mutate. And being king of the hill, he
feels entitled to seize whatever he needs.

The Brezhnev Doctrine stipulated that communism's advances must
be irreversible. But there is no more communism. And there is no
more Soviet Union. So what we have now is the Putin Doctrine -
that Russia is forever entitled to a sphere of influence over other
nations. Kind of like a modern updated version of the Soviet Union.

"We are no longer in Yalta times. Spheres of influence for two
big powers do not belong" in 2022.
~ Josep Borrell, the European Union's principal foreign policy
official, just prior to the US-Russia negotiations about Ukraine

At the Yalta Conference (February 1945) FDR, Stalin, and Churchill
negotiated the postwar settlement of Europe. Nobody else had a say
in the matter.

Today it is just Joe Biden and Vladimir Putin. They are the deciders
of Europe's future. Which side will get which settlements. That sort
of thing. Not even Boris Johnson was invited to play in this round.

I wonder which countries in Europe that Russia will be allowed
to have (or keep)? I wonder which countries in Europe that the USA
will be allow to have (or keep)?

We all know what countries Neville Chamberlain was allowed to have.
We all know what countries Joe Biden will be allowed to have.
But how many countries will Vladimir Putin allow himself to have?

Churchill's list for Stalin's Russia -
Romania 90%
Bulgaria 75%
Yugoslavia 50%
Hungary 50%
Greece 10%

Would FDR have repudiated Churchill's letter had it been sent?
Dead men tell no tales. But live ones most certainly do.

--Lee

--
Always in beta

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Hi, Lee Lofaso!
I read your message from 13.01.2022 18:34

LL> Today it is just Joe Biden and Vladimir Putin. They are the
LL> deciders of Europe's future. Which side will get which
LL> settlements. That sort of thing. Not even Boris Johnson was
LL> invited to play in this round. I wonder which countries in
LL> Europe that Russia will be allowed ??to have (or keep)? I
LL> wonder which countries in Europe that the USA will be allow to
LL> have (or keep)?

Putin wants Ukraine not to enter NATO because NATO will become closer to Russia. If Biden had a sence of humor he could demand Putin not to join
with Belarus -- because in this case Russia will become closer to NATO.
;-) It would be 1:1 after the talks. ;)

Bye, Lee!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
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* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hello, alexander!

Hi, Lee Lofaso!
I read your message from 13.01.2022 18:34

Today it is just Joe Biden and Vladimir Putin. They are the
deciders of Europe's future. Which side will get which
settlements. That sort of thing. Not even Boris Johnson was
invited to play in this round. I wonder which countries in
Europe that Russia will be allowed ??to have (or keep)? I
wonder which countries in Europe that the USA will be allow to
have (or keep)?

Putin wants Ukraine not to enter NATO because NATO will become closer
to Russia. If Biden had a sence of humor he could demand Putin not to
join with Belarus -- because in this case Russia will become closer to NATO. ;-) It would be 1:1 after the talks. ;)

Putin doesn't want to "lose" Ukraine. He thinks in the future there could be another Yanukovych appointed by a pro-russian friendly Ukraine like it already happened in 2010 (even after 2005 Orange revolution).

"Kharkov Accords": The agreement, signed on 21 April 2010 in Kharkiv, Ukraine, by Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych and Russian President Dimitry Medvedev was a treaty between Ukraine and Russia whereby the Russian lease on naval facilities in Crimea was extended beyond 2017 until 2042, with an additional five-year renewal option in exchange for a multiyear discounted contract to provide Ukraine with Russian natural gas.

Ghil.

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in exchange for a multiyear discounted contract to provide Ukraine with Russian natural gas.

Once again this destructive fossil fuel industry, that keep on causing so much harm to our planet, reared it's ugly head. :-(



..

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Putin doesn't want to "lose" Ukraine. He thinks in the future there could be another Yanukovych appointed by a pro-russian friendly Ukraine like it already happened in 2010 (even after 2005 Orange revolution).

I wonder if I'm the only to whom this sounds so ridiculous ... Leave the people alone ...

"Kharkov Accords": The agreement, signed on 21 April 2010 in Kharkiv, Ukraine, by Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych and Russian President Dimitry Medvedev was a treaty between Ukraine and Russia whereby the Russian lease on naval facilities in Crimea was extended beyond 2017
until 2042, with an additional five-year renewal option in exchange for a multiyear discounted contract to provide Ukraine with Russian natural
gas.

But Russia invaded Crimea, right? So the whole idea of Kharkov Accords becomes moot. No?

Why even require naval facilities in the Black Sea? It's not as if another seafaring power could invade it unnoticed ... No?

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 09 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello, Ward!

But Russia invaded Crimea, right? So the whole idea of Kharkov Accords becomes moot. No?

Why even require naval facilities in the Black Sea? It's not as if
another seafaring power could invade it unnoticed ... No?

The russian Black Sea Fleet is there since the end of 18th century. Russians didn't want to lose that "outpost" in case Ukraine decided to join NATO.

Ghil.
--- -� �� �� �����⢮� ���﫨��. �������, �� ��?
* Origin: ��ࠢ쨭� ᯨ�⮬ ᮢ���� ������ (2:5030/1081.117)

Ghil,

The russian Black Sea Fleet is there since the end of 18th century. Russians didn't want to lose that "outpost" in case Ukraine decided to
join NATO.

A fleet there serves no purpose ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 09 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello, alexander!

Friday January 14 2022 10:51, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

Putin wants Ukraine not to enter NATO because NATO will become closer
to Russia. If Biden had a sence of humor he could demand Putin not to

NATO is already at Russian borders - Latvia, Estonia, Norway.. They are very close.
Putin just wants to talk to someone, he is alone in his bunker.. ;)


Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, Ward!

The russian Black Sea Fleet is there since the end of 18th
century. Russians didn't want to lose that "outpost" in case
Ukraine decided to join NATO.

A fleet there serves no purpose ...

It's securing Russia's maritime access to the world.
Would you say the same thing about Russia's Baltic/Pacific/Northern Fleet?

Ghil.
--- -� �� �� �����⢮� ���﫨��. �������, �� ��?
* Origin: ��ࠢ쨭� ᯨ�⮬ ᮢ���� ������ (2:5030/1081.117)

Hello, Ghil!

Friday January 14 2022 17:33, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

The russian Black Sea Fleet is there since the end of 18th
century. Russians didn't want to lose that "outpost" in case
Ukraine decided to join NATO.

A fleet there serves no purpose ...

It's securing Russia's maritime access to the world.

Turkey could easy block Russian fleet in Black See.

Would you say the same thing about Russia's Baltic/Pacific/Northern
Fleet?

Russia is very famous for it's fleet - we always tried to sink our ships ourselves, without external help ;)

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Russia is very famous for it's fleet - we always tried to sink our ships ourselves, without external help ;)

ROTFL :)

Kursk...?



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Would you say the same thing about Russia's Baltic/Pacific/Northern Fleet?

Don't you worry about that. We'll take care of them in the narrow straits between Denmark and Sweden, like we've done since the Middle Ages.

Unless they do a Whiskey on the Rocks and go aground, outside a Swedish naval base, in the Bleking archipelago...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_submarine_S-363


..

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*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Bj�rn!

Friday January 14 2022 23:53, you wrote to me:

Russia is very famous for it's fleet - we always tried to sink
our ships ourselves, without external help ;)

ROTFL :)

Kursk...?

It was a very terrible disaster :( Better examples:

1. Crimean war (1853-1956). All Russian Black Sea fleet (more that 90 ships) was sunk by ourselves. Very proud about that, even got monument in Sevastopol.
2. Japan war (1904-1905). Ships "Varyag" and "Koreets" we sunk by their crew, got very famous song how heroic they were (very proud!).
3. World War I. We surrended to Germany and were forced to sunk all Black Sea fleet in 1918. About ~17 ships. We have monument for that event. Very proud!

A couple of similar events...

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, Dmitry!

A fleet there serves no purpose ...

It's securing Russia's maritime access to the world.

Turkey could easy block Russian fleet in Black See.

According to a convention signed a long time ago Turkey controls the Bosporus and Dardanelles Straits and regulates the transit of naval warships. The Convention guarantees the free passage of civilian vessels in peacetime, and restricts the passage of naval ships not belonging to Black Sea states. Russia is a Black Sea state. And always wanted a foothold in the Mediterranean Sea. Now because of Russia-Syria relations, Russian Navy is using the naval facility of the Syrian city of Tartus, officially known as "Operational formation of the Russian Navy in the Mediterranean Sea".

Ghil.
--- -� �� �� �����⢮� ���﫨��. �������, �� ��?
* Origin: ��ࠢ쨭� ᯨ�⮬ ᮢ���� ������ (2:5030/1081.117)

Ghil,

It's securing Russia's maritime access to the world.
Would you say the same thing about Russia's Baltic/Pacific/Northern
Fleet?

Certainly for the Baltic as well.

A Russian fleet in the Baltic and the Black Sea is by every definition in the book trapped by NATO should it ever get dirty ... no way to get out, commonly refered to as a turkey shoot.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 09 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello, Dmitry!

wanted a foothold in the Mediterranean Sea. Now because of
Russia-Syria relations, Russian Navy is using the naval facility
of the Syrian city of Tartus, officially known as "Operational
formation of the Russian Navy in the Mediterranean Sea".

Syria is a war zone for many players, it's actually doesn't exsists anymore as a single country. We've spent billions of dollars for that failed state since 50s at got nothing. One of our biggest mistakes :(
In USSR we were more happy to send tanks and planes to Syria than to produce toilet paper for our citizens. What a shame!

And if Ukraine is a war zone why would The United States and its allies in NATO carrying out exercises in the Black Sea? Or if arming Ukraine could transform it into a failed state? Do you think the americans care about that using Ukraine to provoke Russia could mean the end of Ukraine in case of russian invasion?

Ghil.
--- -� �� �� �����⢮� ���﫨��. �������, �� ��?
* Origin: ��ࠢ쨭� ᯨ�⮬ ᮢ���� ������ (2:5030/1081.117)

Hello, Ward!

It's securing Russia's maritime access to the world.
Would you say the same thing about Russia's
Baltic/Pacific/Northern Fleet?

Certainly for the Baltic as well.

A Russian fleet in the Baltic and the Black Sea is by every definition
in the book trapped by NATO should it ever get dirty ... no way to get out, commonly refered to as a turkey shoot.

If they would do that... but they know they can't emerge victorious from this World War III.

Ghil.
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* Origin: ��ࠢ쨭� ᯨ�⮬ ᮢ���� ������ (2:5030/1081.117)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Ghil!

Friday January 14 2022 18:48, you wrote to me:

Syria is a war zone for many players, it's actually doesn't
exsists anymore as a single country. We've spent billions of
dollars for that failed state since 50s at got nothing. One of
our biggest mistakes :( In USSR we were more happy to send tanks
and planes to Syria than to produce toilet paper for our
citizens. What a shame!

And if Ukraine is a war zone why would The United States and its
allies in NATO carrying out exercises in the Black Sea? Or if arming

NATO ships were in Black Sea since 50s at least. It's their right to be there. We've tried to get some Turkey's territory in 40s, this is a payback.

Ukraine could transform it into a failed state? Do you think the

Ukraine was mostly ok before Russian invasion. Syria collapsed without external help.

americans care about that using Ukraine to provoke Russia could mean
the end of Ukraine in case of russian invasion?

Our problem is that we think more about USA than about our own citizens. My pension will be about 10x less than Ward's (and I am very optimistic person!)
Why do you think I should be paid less? Because of Syria? I've been there 4 times, it's a shithole, we even have to pay for entry and exit visa! Unlike guys from Saudi Arabia, for example. It's just not fare.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
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Hello Alexander,

Today it is just Joe Biden and Vladimir Putin. They are the
deciders of Europe's future. Which side will get which
settlements. That sort of thing. Not even Boris Johnson was
invited to play in this round. I wonder which countries in
Europe that Russia will be allowed ??to have (or keep)? I
wonder which countries in Europe that the USA will be allow to
have (or keep)?

Putin wants Ukraine not to enter NATO because NATO will become closer to Russia. If Biden had a sence of humor he could demand Putin not to join with Belarus -- because in this case Russia will become closer to NATO. ;-) It would be 1:1 after the talks. ;)

The talks have concluded.
With nothing accomplished.
Now it is time for Russia to make a decision.
NATO claims membership is open to all countries that qualify.
This is an open invitation to Vladimir Putin to put up or shut up.
So how about it?
Does Vladimir Putin want in?
Or does Vladimir Putin want to remain on the sidelines?
Just think about what membership in NATO would mean for Russia.
No weak countries (such as Ukraine) would dare attack Russia,
as NATO would come down on them like a ton of bricks ...

--Lee

--
Food for the Fun of It

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Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 15.01.2022 01:35

ak>> Putin wants Ukraine not to enter NATO because NATO will
ak>> become closer to Russia. If Biden had a sence of humor he
ak>> could demand Putin not to
DP> NATO is already at Russian borders - Latvia, Estonia, Norway..
DP> They are very close. Putin just wants to talk to someone, he is
DP> alone in his bunker.. ;)

He probably forgot about Baltic states. ;)

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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Hi, Lee Lofaso!
I read your message from 15.01.2022 22:16

LL>>> Today it is just Joe Biden and Vladimir Putin. They are the
LL>>> deciders of Europe's future. Which side will get which
LL>>> settlements. That sort of thing. Not even Boris Johnson was
LL>>> invited to play in this round. I wonder which countries in Europe
LL>>> that Russia will be allowed?? to have (or keep)? I wonder which
LL>>> countries in Europe that the USA will be allow to have (or keep)?

ak>> Putin wants Ukraine not to enter NATO because NATO will become
ak>> closer to Russia. If Biden had a sence of humor he could demand
ak>> Putin not to join with Belarus -- because in this case Russia will
ak>> become closer to NATO. It would be 1:1 after the talks.

LL> The talks have concluded. With nothing accomplished. Now it is time
LL> for Russia to make a decision. NATO claims membership is open to
LL> all countries that qualify. This is an open invitation to Vladimir
LL> Putin to put up or shut up. So how about it? Does Vladimir Putin
LL> want in? Or does Vladimir Putin want to remain on the sidelines?
LL> Just think about what membership in NATO would mean for Russia. No
LL> weak countries (such as Ukraine) would dare attack Russia, as NATO
LL> would come down on them like a ton of bricks...

The Ukraine created a big problem, but the core of it is wild ultra-nationalists in Ukraine. Ukraine is a perfect twin of
Czechoslovakia, the country populated with two nations. Yes, they didn't
like each other, but they were civilized people, they had a few Nazi
groups. The two countries peacefully divorced and now Czech Republic and Slovakia both live in peace and prosperity. It could not happen in
Ukraine with its ultra-nationalists. Now Russian people in Ukraine is a conquered nation.

Bye, Lee!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hello, alexander!

Saturday January 15 2022 22:47, you wrote to me:

NATO is already at Russian borders - Latvia, Estonia, Norway..
They are very close. Putin just wants to talk to someone, he is
alone in his bunker.. ;)

He probably forgot about Baltic states. ;)

We are speding a lot of money for propaganda in Baltic states, he knows that :(

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello Alexander,

[..]

Just think about what membership in NATO would mean for Russia. No
weak countries (such as Ukraine) would dare attack Russia, as NATO
would come down on them like a ton of bricks...

The Ukraine created a big problem, but the core of it is wild ultra-nationalists in Ukraine. Ukraine is a perfect twin of Czechoslovakia, the country populated with two nations.

Home of two of the greatest personalities in the world - Havel,
and Lendl. One was loved for his use of words. The other, for his
use of a tennis racket.

Yes, they didn't like each other, but they were civilized people, they had a
few Nazi groups.

In today's world such groups exist everywhere.

The two countries peacefully divorced and now Czech Republic and
Slovakia both live in peace and prosperity.

After WWII all of Europe was in ruins. It was only after those
countries had recovered (with help from both the USA and the former
USSR) that real prosperity came to those countries.

It could not happen in Ukraine with its ultra-nationalists.

What a laughable statement that would have been up to a few
days ago. Today, it is more of a somber reality. You see, some
people in the USA are insane. Today insane. Such as Ted Cruz.
Hard to imagine he is a US Senator. Nobody likes him. Even his
own mother. Has a beard so nobody has to look at his ugly face.
Anyway, he is so insane that he introduced legislation to put
sanctions on Russia. For no other reason than just to do it.
It did not go anywhere, as nobody in their right mind would
even consider the measure. But we are not talking about people
who are sane.

Now Russian people in Ukraine is a conquered nation.

I am not sure any people can be truly subjugated. A land may
be conquered, but winning the hearts and minds of a people is
a totally different story.

Poland and Hungary have turned hard right. As well as other
countries in central and eastern Europe. Are the people in those
countries prisoners in their own land? What can they do, or be
expected to do, to change the situation?

One solution is dissolution. Refuse to play by dissolving the
state. Each region would revert to being its own independent state.

--Lee

--
More Doctors Smoke Camels than Any Other Cigarette

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello, Lee!

Today it is just Joe Biden and Vladimir Putin. They are the
deciders of Europe's future. Which side will get which
settlements. That sort of thing. Not even Boris Johnson was
invited to play in this round. I wonder which countries in
Europe that Russia will be allowed ??to have (or keep)? I
wonder which countries in Europe that the USA will be allow to
have (or keep)?

Putin wants Ukraine not to enter NATO because NATO will become
closer to Russia. If Biden had a sence of humor he could demand
Putin not to join with Belarus -- because in this case Russia
will become closer to NATO. ;-) It would be 1:1 after the talks.
;)

The talks have concluded.
With nothing accomplished.
Now it is time for Russia to make a decision.
NATO claims membership is open to all countries that qualify.
This is an open invitation to Vladimir Putin to put up or shut up.
So how about it?
Does Vladimir Putin want in?
Or does Vladimir Putin want to remain on the sidelines?
Just think about what membership in NATO would mean for Russia.
No weak countries (such as Ukraine) would dare attack Russia,
as NATO would come down on them like a ton of bricks ...

All interested sides want a war: Ukraine wants to re-establish control on those lands it de facto doesn't control. USA wants to use Ukraine to weaken Russia. Russia wants a rematch, maybe an excuse to invade Ukraine. There is no way to know the outcome of any war.

Ghil.
--- -� �� �� �����⢮� ���﫨��. �������, �� ��?
* Origin: ��ࠢ쨭� ᯨ�⮬ ᮢ���� ������ (2:5030/1081.117)

Hi, Lee Lofaso!
I read your message from 16.01.2022 09:19

ak>> ultra-nationalists in Ukraine. Ukraine is a perfect twin of
ak>> Czechoslovakia, the country populated with two nations.
<skipped>
ak>> The two countries peacefully divorced and now Czech Republic and
ak>> Slovakia both live in peace and prosperity.

LL> After WWII all of Europe was in ruins. It was only after those
LL> countries had recovered (with help from both the USA and the former
LL> USSR) that real prosperity came to those countries.

I speak about present days. People of Czechoslovakia became free after Perestroika in the USSR, and they decided their destiny without each
other humiliation. They are a good example of civilized people. In the
world vocabulary now there appeared a nice phase "Velvet revolution". It
tells us that problems can be solved peacefully.

ak>> It could not happen in Ukraine with its ultra-nationalists.

LL> What a laughable statement that would have been up to a few days
LL> ago. Today, it is more of a somber reality. You see, some people in
LL> the USA are insane. Today insane. Such as Ted Cruz. Hard to imagine
LL> he is a US Senator. Nobody likes him. Even his own mother. Has a
LL> beard so nobody has to look at his ugly face. Anyway, he is so
LL> insane that he introduced legislation to put sanctions on Russia.
LL> For no other reason than just to do it. It did not go anywhere, as
LL> nobody in their right mind would even consider the measure. But we
LL> are not talking about people who are sane.

I can only say that the differences between the USSR and the USA were
much bigger, but the USA sanctions of the USSR were much smaller. ;-)

ak>> Now Russian people in Ukraine is a conquered nation.

LL> I am not sure any people can be truly subjugated. A land may be
LL> conquered, but winning the hearts and minds of a people is a
LL> totally different story.

The Ukraine nationalists decided assimilate millions of Russian people
living in Ukraine. They want them to consider themselves Ukrainians
rather than Russians. The new language law prohibits using the Russian language even in beer bars(!). Its shame, but the West likes it, because
it doesn't like Russians in general. And if somebody, even a criminal,
does anything against Russians he automatically becomes a West ally.
That is reality.

LL> Poland and Hungary have turned hard right. As well as other
LL> countries in central and eastern Europe. Are the people in those
LL> countries prisoners in their own land? What can they do, or be
LL> expected to do, to change the situation?

It is another matter -- they don't divide themselves by nationalistic principles.

LL> One solution is dissolution. Refuse to play by dissolving the
LL> state. Each region would revert to being its own independent state.

But suppose that a certain nation gets a swelled head in some country,
and it decided that it has a right to rule the country only by itself.
You will get an Ukrainian model.


Bye, Lee!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, alexander!

On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 09:39:13 +0300 alexander koryagin writes:

The Ukraine nationalists decided assimilate millions of Russian people living in Ukraine. They want them to consider themselves Ukrainians rather than Russians. The new language law prohibits using the Russian language even in beer bars(!). Its shame, but the West likes it, because it doesn't like Russians in general. And if somebody, even a criminal, does anything against Russians he automatically becomes a West ally. That is reality.

I know a bunch of Russian-speaking people in Ukraine, they do not have problems with Russian. No, they have no problems with Ukranian as well and they are not russian nationalists.

--- Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux)
* Origin: Somewhere in the North (2:4500/1.59)

Hello, Ghil!

Monday January 17 2022 00:08, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

All interested sides want a war: Ukraine wants to re-establish control
on those lands it de facto doesn't control. USA wants to use Ukraine
to weaken Russia. Russia wants a rematch, maybe an excuse to invade

USA wants weak Russia under Putin's control.
This situation suits them best.

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Zhenja Kaliuta!
I read your message from 17.01.2022 14:33


ak>> The Ukraine nationalists decided assimilate millions of Russian
people living in Ukraine. They want them to consider themselves
Ukrainians rather than Russians. The new language law prohibits using
the Russian language even in beer bars(!). Its shame, but the West likes
it, because it doesn't like Russians in general. And if somebody, even a criminal, does anything against Russians he automatically becomes a West
ally. That is reality.

ZK> I know a bunch of Russian-speaking people in Ukraine, they do not
have problems with Russian. No, they have no problems with Ukranian as
well and they are not russian nationalists.

May be. But there are millions of other Russian people in Ukraine who
don't feel so comfortable when somebody force them to be Ukrainians.

Bye, Zhenja!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday January 18 2022 09:08, you wrote to Zhenja Kaliuta:

the Russian language even in beer bars(!). Its shame, but the West

I've been in Kiev recently and had no problems with my Russian language at all. Even in bars :)

In Russia you cannot use any other language except Russian to pass state exams (EGE).
So people from Tatarstan will tell that Russia is also pushing down languages of ethnic minorities.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 18.01.2022 11:19

ak>> the Russian language even in beer bars(!). Its shame, but
ak>> the West
DP> I've been in Kiev recently and had no problems with my Russian
DP> language at all. Even in bars:)

The problems will have Russian bar workers if caught speaking Russian.
It will be according the law.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday January 18 2022 12:59, you wrote to me:

the Russian language even in beer bars(!). Its shame, but
the West

I've been in Kiev recently and had no problems with my Russian
language at all. Even in bars:)

The problems will have Russian bar workers if caught speaking Russian.

No, current law says nothing about restrictions for Russian language in bars. And you will be served while speaking Russian only.

It will be according the law.

No. According to the law it is required for barman to speak Ukranian. But if client will ask him in Russian - he can answer in Russian.
It's absolutely the same in Russia. You can expect barman in Osetia to know Russian language. He cannot say to you that he don't speak Russian and force you to switch to Osetian.



Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

May be. But there are millions of other Russian people in Ukraine who
don't feel so comfortable when somebody force them to be Ukrainians.

You know, I'm shocked to learn there are regimes that still think in terms of military conquering and invading other countries ....

This is the 21st century Nazism is gone, Communism is gone ... or so I thought.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello, Ward!

May be. But there are millions of other Russian people in Ukraine
who don't feel so comfortable when somebody force them to be
Ukrainians.

You know, I'm shocked to learn there are regimes that still think in
terms of military conquering and invading other countries ....

This is the 21st century Nazism is gone, Communism is gone ... or so I thought.

Nazism and Communism is gone. But:
21st century Afghanistan, Iraq
20th century: NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, Vietnam, Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?

Ghil.
--- -� �� �� �����⢮� ���﫨��. �������, �� ��?
* Origin: ��ࠢ쨭� ᯨ�⮬ ᮢ���� ������ (2:5030/1081.117)

Hello, Ghil!

Tuesday January 18 2022 08:27, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

Nazism and Communism is gone. But:
21st century Afghanistan, Iraq
20th century: NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, Vietnam, Atomic bombings of

NATO actually saves thounsands of human lives in Yugoslavia by stopping the war.
It was a terrible place in the 90s - do you know anything about Srebrenici?
Who was going to stop those massacres instead of NATO? Santa Claus?
Look at the Syria - civil war is still going on, millions of refugees abroad cannot return because they know that they will be prosecuted by Asad regime. And compare with Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia and Slovenia. No war, no fighting..

Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?

More people died during Battle for Berlin on German side than in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Do you think that we should be blamed for that?

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Ghil,

Nazism and Communism is gone. But:
21st century Afghanistan, Iraq
20th century: NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, Vietnam, Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?

If you want to decently discuss with me, you need to be intellectually honest .... How old are you?

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Dmitry,

Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?

More people died during Battle for Berlin on German side than in
Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

And Dresden ... when I passed there in the 1990-ies the damage still had not been repaired.

The fire-bombing of Tokyo also killed more people than Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

And I also believe Russia suffered more casualties than anybody else, a thing often overlooked in the west.

Do you think that we should be blamed for that?

Correct ... today's generations are not to be blamed for the past.

Take care,

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Ward!

Tuesday January 18 2022 15:42, you wrote to me:

And Dresden ... when I passed there in the 1990-ies the damage still
had not been repaired.

The fire-bombing of Tokyo also killed more people than Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

And I also believe Russia suffered more casualties than anybody else,
a thing often overlooked in the west.

We've lost about 80k soldiers during Battle for Berlin, it would be much better to just drop nuclear bomb and save their lives.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Dmitry,

We've lost about 80k soldiers during Battle for Berlin, it would be much better to just drop nuclear bomb and save their lives.

We must stay away from nuclears.

Even Hiroshima and Nagasaki were totally useless from a military point of view.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Dmitry,

WWII was a disaster even without nuclear bombs.

We know who caused it, not your country and certainly not mine.

Even Hiroshima and Nagasaki were totally useless from a military
point of view.

No, Japan surrended very soon after the bombing. They were shocked.

They were shocked but didn't need to be conquered. They were not an active military force anymore, hardly any navy, hardly any air force and as they were on an island an irrelevant land army as long as you didn't invade.

They could easily have been isolated from the rest of the world by a blockade with as good as no loss of troops ... They had no natural resources, no oil, no steel, no whatever ... and eventually would expire.

The US however still had to avenge Pearl Harbor and humiliate the Japanese ... and show Stalin the atom bomb ... which he was aware of ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Ward!

Tuesday January 18 2022 16:28, you wrote to me:

They were shocked but didn't need to be conquered. They were not an
active military force anymore, hardly any navy, hardly any air force
and as they were on an island an irrelevant land army as long as you didn't invade.

They had enough forces to kill million of american troops during months long battles.
Just look at the Berlin were most powerfull army in the world lost 80 000 soldiers.
Single city!

They could easily have been isolated from the rest of the world by a blockade with as good as no loss of troops ... They had no natural resources, no oil, no steel, no whatever ... and eventually would
expire.

It was impossible to block access to all Japan. It's really huge.

The US however still had to avenge Pearl Harbor and humiliate the
Japanese ... and show Stalin the atom bomb ... which he was aware of
...

Stalin also tried to take part from Iran and Turkey just after the war. Only invention of nuclear weapon stopped him.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello Dmitry,

All interested sides want a war: Ukraine wants to re-establish control
on those lands it de facto doesn't control. USA wants to use Ukraine
to weaken Russia. Russia wants a rematch, maybe an excuse to invade

USA wants weak Russia under Putin's control.
This situation suits them best.

With the alternative being a military coup d'etat it is no choice
at all. Which is what will happen if Putin does not get what he wants.

--Lee

--
Lock him up!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Dmitry,

the Russian language even in beer bars(!). Its shame, but
the West

I've been in Kiev recently and had no problems with my Russian
language at all. Even in bars:)

The problems will have Russian bar workers if caught speaking

Russian.

No, current law says nothing about restrictions for Russian language in bars. And you will be served while speaking Russian only.

It will be according the law.

No. According to the law it is required for barman to speak Ukranian. But if
client will ask him in Russian - he can answer in Russian.
It's absolutely the same in Russia. You can expect barman in Osetia to know
Russian language. He cannot say to you that he don't speak Russian and force you to switch to Osetian.

Everybody speaks English. So why speak any other language?
The USA has no official language. Even though Benjamin Franklin
thought it would be a great idea for everybody to speak German.

In Louisiana, many people speak French as their native tongue.
In the southwestern part of the USA, many people speak Spanish.
The majority of people in New Mexico speak Spanish rather than
English. And in Hawai'i the natives speak their own creation.

--Lee

--
If it doesn't get all over the place, it doesn't belong in your face.

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Ward,

May be. But there are millions of other Russian people in Ukraine who
don't feel so comfortable when somebody force them to be Ukrainians.

You know, I'm shocked to learn there are regimes that still think in terms of military conquering and invading other countries ....

This is the 21st century Nazism is gone, Communism is gone ... or so I thought.

Laos, Cuba, North Korea. The Big Three who rule the world.

--Lee

--
As Good As It Looks

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Ghil,

May be. But there are millions of other Russian people in Ukraine
who don't feel so comfortable when somebody force them to be
Ukrainians.

You know, I'm shocked to learn there are regimes that still think in
terms of military conquering and invading other countries ....

This is the 21st century Nazism is gone, Communism is gone ... or so

I

thought.

Nazism and Communism is gone. But:
21st century Afghanistan, Iraq
20th century: NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, Vietnam, Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?

NATO did not bomb Yugoslavia, as that country had ceased to exist.
But it did bomb Serbia. NATO also did not bomb Vietnam. But it did
bomb Afghanistan. Even though it did stay out of Iraq. And NATO had
not yet been created when two cities in Japan went radioactive.

--Lee

--
As Good As It Looks

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Dmitry,

Nazism and Communism is gone. But:
21st century Afghanistan, Iraq
20th century: NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, Vietnam, Atomic bombings of

NATO actually saves thounsands of human lives in Yugoslavia by stopping the
war.

NATO was created to contain Germany. And yet NATO was involved
in the invasion/occupation of Afghanistan. With the blessing of
Vladimir Putin. And what was the end result? The Taliban is still
there, and rules Afghanistan as if NATO had never been there in
the first place.

It was a terrible place in the 90s - do you know anything about Srebrenici?
Who was going to stop those massacres instead of NATO? Santa Claus?

If you want peace, work for justice. At least two popes said that,
but it is a phrase that is not limited to those who call themselves
Christian. War is not the answer. And neither is any other form of
destruction.

Look at the Syria - civil war is still going on, millions of refugees abroad
cannot return because they know that they will be prosecuted by Asad regime. And compare with Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia and Slovenia. No war, no fighting..

The former Yugoslavia was at war with itself for quite some time.
Until the various factions decided to get a divorce - from each other.
Violence was not the answer then. And violence is not the answer now.
In any place in the world.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?

More people died during Battle for Berlin on German side than in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Do you think that we should be blamed for that?

Dresdin. Kurt Vonnegut was there. Wrote about his experiences.
Slaughterhouse Five. Billy Pilgrim, RIP.

--Lee

--
No Trump! No KKK! No fascist USA!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Lee!

Tuesday January 18 2022 18:28, you wrote to me:

USA wants weak Russia under Putin's control.
This situation suits them best.

With the alternative being a military coup d'etat it is no choice

Weak Russia with anarchy and nuclear weapons is the most terrible dream of all American presidents.

at all. Which is what will happen if Putin does not get what he wants.

Russian military is completely under control, Generals are corrupt and FSB (our Federal Security Service) got all required "Kompromat" to put anyone from the Army to jail.

Just 2 days ago another General who was responsible for our radars tracking incoming missiles and planes was arrested and charged with corruption.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Lee!

Tuesday January 18 2022 18:28, you wrote to me:

Everybody speaks English. So why speak any other language?

Everybody?! :) Probably everybody in Sweden.

The USA has no official language. Even though Benjamin Franklin
thought it would be a great idea for everybody to speak German.

I don't want to speak German :)

In Louisiana, many people speak French as their native tongue.
In the southwestern part of the USA, many people speak Spanish.
The majority of people in New Mexico speak Spanish rather than
English. And in Hawai'i the natives speak their own creation.

But Russia wants to make Russian language as official language of Ukraine. That's the problem.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Lee!

Tuesday January 18 2022 18:28, you wrote to me:

NATO was created to contain Germany. And yet NATO was involved

NATO was created to fight with Soviet Union ;)

in the invasion/occupation of Afghanistan. With the blessing of
Vladimir Putin. And what was the end result? The Taliban is still
there, and rules Afghanistan as if NATO had never been there in
the first place.

You cannot destroy Taliban without invading Pakistan.. But it has nuclear bombs.

If you want peace, work for justice. At least two popes said that,
but it is a phrase that is not limited to those who call themselves Christian. War is not the answer. And neither is any other form of destruction.

War is the answer, we are humans after all. It's just a bad answer.

The former Yugoslavia was at war with itself for quite some time.
Until the various factions decided to get a divorce - from each other. Violence was not the answer then. And violence is not the answer now.
In any place in the world.

Without NATO it was impossible to stop the war..



Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello Ward,

Nazism and Communism is gone. But:
21st century Afghanistan, Iraq
20th century: NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, Vietnam, Atomic bombings of
Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?

If you want to decently discuss with me, you need to be intellectually honest .... How old are you?

Old enough to know better?

OTOH, some people never grow up ...

--Lee

--
Donald Trump! Go away! Racist, sexist, anti-gay!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Ward,

We've lost about 80k soldiers during Battle for Berlin, it would be much
better to just drop nuclear bomb and save their lives.

We must stay away from nuclears.

Even Hiroshima and Nagasaki were totally useless from a military point of view.

Stalin got the picture. Curtis LeMay wanted Truman to drop a whole
bunch of them on cities in the USSR. Fortunately for us all, Truman
had a somewhat saner mind than the general.

--Lee

--
Our Nuts, Your Mouth

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Dmitry,

We've lost about 80k soldiers during Battle for Berlin, it would
be much better to just drop nuclear bomb and save their lives.

We must stay away from nuclears.

WWII was a disaster even without nuclear bombs.

"Politics is war by other means." ~Clausewitz

What we had in WWII was a breakdown in diplomacy. A disaster
in the making turned into a hard reality.

Even Hiroshima and Nagasaki were totally useless from a military point
of view.

No, Japan surrended very soon after the bombing. They were shocked.

Why did Japan surrender?

The Japanese military had offered to surrender long before Hiroshima
and Nagasaki were atomised. Truman rejected the offer, insisting on unconditional surrender. Of course, the Japanese military leadership
would never go for that, as doing so would mean their own deaths.

So Truman dropped an atomic bomb on Hiroshima.

After a few days, when no word came from Japan, Truman chose to drop
another atomic bomb. On Nagasaki.

After a few days, Truman finally received word from Japan.

The Emperor cried "Uncle!" and crowned Douglas MacArthur as god.

This was all part of Truman's "unconditional surrender" terms.
The Emperor himself had to bow, and relinquish his own claim as god.

This was most insulting to the Emperor, and to all Japanese.

To bow before gaijin ...

--Lee

--
I won't fan the flames of hate, ~Joe Biden

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Ward,

WWII was a disaster even without nuclear bombs.

We know who caused it, not your country and certainly not mine.

Could it have been avoided? Some historians claim it was an
extension of WWI. The sides of that conflict merely taking a
break before continuing hostilities.

Even Hiroshima and Nagasaki were totally useless from a military
point of view.

No, Japan surrended very soon after the bombing. They were shocked.

They were shocked but didn't need to be conquered. They were not an active military force anymore, hardly any navy, hardly any air force and as they were on an island an irrelevant land army as long as you didn't invade.

Then why did Truman drop two atomic bombs on Japanese cities?
Japan was already a defeated entity. With no more military or
military capability to speak of.

They could easily have been isolated from the rest of the world by a blockade with as good as no loss of troops ... They had no natural resources, no oil, no steel, no whatever ... and eventually would expire.

Truman was aware of that. So was Stalin. Which begs the question -
Why did Truman drop two atomic bombs on Japanese cities?

The US however still had to avenge Pearl Harbor and humiliate the Japanese ... and show Stalin the atom bomb ... which he was aware of ...

FDR, Stalin, and Churchill had several meetings. Each was aware
of progress made towards development of atomic bombs. Not only in
the USA, but also in Germany and Japan.

FDR wanted to share the technology with Stalin, but unexpectedly
died of a stroke. Truman chose to keep the technology rather than
share it with others. However, Truman was more than happy to give
Stalin a demonstration as to what those bombs could do ...

--Lee

--
When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Dmitry,

They could easily have been isolated from the rest of the world by a
blockade with as good as no loss of troops ... They had no natural
resources, no oil, no steel, no whatever ... and eventually would
expire.

It was impossible to block access to all Japan. It's really huge.

Japan was a defeated entity before two cities were atomized.

The US however still had to avenge Pearl Harbor and humiliate the
Japanese ... and show Stalin the atom bomb ... which he was aware of
...

The Atlantic theater was about defense. German and Italian POWs
were treated well, and allowed privileges. The Pacific theater was
far different, as it was about revenge, with what few Japanese POWs
that had been taken treated very poorly.

Would Truman had used atomic bombs on Germany or Italy? I doubt it.
But using them on Japan was a no-brainer. Very popular decision when
those two cities were vaporized.

Stalin also tried to take part from Iran and Turkey just after the war. Only
invention of nuclear weapon stopped him.

FDR wanted to share the technology with Stalin. His unexpected
death (of a stroke) prevented that from happening. And then Stalin
had to deal with Truman.

--Lee

--
Pork. The One You Love.

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello, Lee!

Tuesday January 18 2022 22:42, you wrote to me:

What we had in WWII was a breakdown in diplomacy. A disaster
in the making turned into a hard reality.

I don't think that it was possible to spot WWII ny diplomacy..

No, Japan surrended very soon after the bombing. They were
shocked.

Why did Japan surrender?

Because they were shocked by US actions.

The Japanese military had offered to surrender long before Hiroshima
and Nagasaki were atomised. Truman rejected the offer, insisting on unconditional surrender. Of course, the Japanese military leadership
would never go for that, as doing so would mean their own deaths.

No, Jaoan was going to resist!

The Emperor cried "Uncle!" and crowned Douglas MacArthur as god.

God?! Are you ok?


Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, Lee!

Tuesday January 18 2022 22:42, you wrote to me:

Japan was a defeated entity before two cities were atomized.

No, we had to fight Kwantung Army with a lot of ressitance.

The Atlantic theater was about defense. German and Italian POWs
were treated well, and allowed privileges. The Pacific theater was
far different, as it was about revenge, with what few Japanese POWs
that had been taken treated very poorly.

We had tens of thousands of Japanese POWs working in Siberia in USSR, BTW.

Stalin also tried to take part from Iran and Turkey just after
the war. Only invention of nuclear weapon stopped him.

FDR wanted to share the technology with Stalin. His unexpected
death (of a stroke) prevented that from happening. And then Stalin
had to deal with Truman.

I don't think that transfer of technology to USSR was an idea of any US president.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello Dmitry,

USA wants weak Russia under Putin's control.
This situation suits them best.

With the alternative being a military coup d'etat it is no choice

Weak Russia with anarchy and nuclear weapons is the most terrible dream of all American presidents.

Weak Libya with anarchy and nuclear weapons was Qaddafi's worst
nightmare. Until he ended his nuclear weapons program to make GWB
happy.

Weak Iraq with anarchy and nuclear weapons was Saddam Hussein's
worst nightmare. Until he never could figure out how to make those
things work, which made GWB very happy.

at all. Which is what will happen if Putin does not get what he wants.

Russian military is completely under control, Generals are corrupt and FSB (our Federal Security Service) got all required "Kompromat" to put anyone from the Army to jail.

Countries in Central and South America go through periods of
military dictatorships and democracies. Argentina has a very long
history of this. As well as Chile, and other countries. Could the
same happen in the USA? Or Canada? In Europe, or Australia? It
can happen anywhere, given the right conditions.

Just 2 days ago another General who was responsible for our radars tracking
incoming missiles and planes was arrested and charged with corruption.

The same happens in all dictatorships, whether military or civilian.
Also happens in democratic countries. But nobody talks about that.

--Lee

--
Hey hey! Ho ho! Donald Trump has got to go!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Dmitry,

Everybody speaks English. So why speak any other language?

Everybody?! :) Probably everybody in Sweden.

I'm not so sure there is a national language anywhere, or even
if that is possible. The closest I can think of is American Sign
Language (ASL) which is the same from coast to coast in the USA.
But that was before I learned about BASL - Black American Sign
Language. If you like rap music, try rapping with your hands.

The USA has no official language. Even though Benjamin Franklin
thought it would be a great idea for everybody to speak German.

I don't want to speak German :)

I speak Cajun French far better than German.

In Louisiana, many people speak French as their native tongue.
In the southwestern part of the USA, many people speak Spanish.
The majority of people in New Mexico speak Spanish rather than
English. And in Hawai'i the natives speak their own creation.

But Russia wants to make Russian language as official language of Ukraine. That's the problem.

The state of Louisiana has two official languages - French and
English. The USA has no official language.

There are some politicians in the USA who want to make English
the one and only official language. This would be a nightmare for
many, especially for those who speak no English at all.

A country can have several official languages, or none at all.
Either way is a protection. But to have only one official language
is a very bad idea. We have experienced what happens when teachers
try to impose their own "English only" rules on children ...

--Lee

--
When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Dmitry,

NATO was created to contain Germany. And yet NATO was involved

NATO was created to fight with Soviet Union ;)

With NATO on one side and the Warsaw Pact on the other,
Germany was all boxed in. Times have changed since then.

in the invasion/occupation of Afghanistan. With the blessing of
Vladimir Putin. And what was the end result? The Taliban is still
there, and rules Afghanistan as if NATO had never been there in
the first place.

You cannot destroy Taliban without invading Pakistan.. But it has nuclear bombs.

So does India. One side uses planes to drop the bombs.
The other side uses missiles. But bombs from both sides
have a very big boom.

If you want peace, work for justice. At least two popes said that,
but it is a phrase that is not limited to those who call themselves
Christian. War is not the answer. And neither is any other form of
destruction.

War is the answer, we are humans after all. It's just a bad answer.

The only winners in that game are ants and cockroaches.

The former Yugoslavia was at war with itself for quite some time.
Until the various factions decided to get a divorce - from each other.
Violence was not the answer then. And violence is not the answer now.
In any place in the world.

Without NATO it was impossible to stop the war..

Not even NATO could stop the Taliban, who never bothered with
nukes or any other weapons of mass destruction.

--Lee

--
If it doesn't get all over the place, it doesn't belong in your face.

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

A country can have several official languages, or none at all.
Either way is a protection. But to have only one official language
is a very bad idea. We have experienced what happens when teachers
try to impose their own "English only" rules on children ...

Did you know that Malaysia decided to make Bahasa (Malay) the offical language thinking it would empower the Malay population. If I remember rightly they had to invent or convert around 30,000 English words to Bahasa as they didn't
exist especially in the legal and technical fields.

Why did they do this, because around 40% of the population is not Malay but it didn't work out very well, in schools the Malays did very poorly because they spoke what was known as Kampong (Village) Malay and were confused while the
non Malays learnt it easily and topped the classes and continued to do well.

Long term it will probably work out ok but with a fair bit of the population not able to speak English which is really not good for their future.

IMHO, computers made English the default language of the world.

Terry

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 18.01.2022 13:12

ak>> The problems will have Russian bar workers if caught
ak>> speaking Russian.
DP> No, current law says nothing about restrictions for Russian
DP> language in bars. And you will be served while speaking Russian
DP> only.
ak>> It will be according the law.
DP> No. According to the law it is required for barman to speak
DP> Ukranian. But if client will ask him in Russian - he can answer
DP> in Russian.

This law is a humiliation of the Russian speaking people in the Russian speaking areas of Ukraine. It is like some crazy politicians say that
since tomorrow all the bars in Canadian Quebec should serve people in
English. ;-)

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Ghil Zvidgzul!
I read your message from 18.01.2022 16:27

ak>>> May be. But there are millions of other Russian people
ak>>> in Ukraine who don't feel so comfortable when somebody
ak>>> force them to be Ukrainians.
WD>> You know, I'm shocked to learn there are regimes that still
WD>> think in terms of military conquering and invading other
WD>> countries .... This is the 21st century Nazism is gone,
WD>> Communism is gone ... or so I thought.
GZ> Nazism and Communism is gone. But:
GZ> 21st century Afghanistan, Iraq
GZ> 20th century: NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, Vietnam, Atomic
GZ> bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?

You forgot NATO intervention in Lybia. Exactly after that fucking
adventure Europe got its flow of fugitives and eternal pain in its ass. ;=)

Bye, Ghil!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 18.01.2022 16:40

GZ>> Nazism and Communism is gone. But:
GZ>> 21st century Afghanistan, Iraq
GZ>> 20th century: NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, Vietnam, Atomic
GZ>> bombings of
DP> NATO actually saves thounsands of human lives in Yugoslavia by
DP> stopping the war. It was a terrible place in the 90s - do you
DP> know anything about Srebrenici?

A Russian NATO's advocate. ;=)

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 18.01.2022 22:59

DP> But Russia wants to make Russian language as official language
DP> of Ukraine. That's the problem.

A lie is a bad thing. Russia supports the right of the Russian people
in eastern Ukraine live as Russian people, as they did for hundreds of
years before.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Wednesday January 19 2022 09:15, you wrote to me:

No. According to the law it is required for barman to speak
Ukranian. But if client will ask him in Russian - he can answer
in Russian.

This law is a humiliation of the Russian speaking people in the
Russian speaking areas of Ukraine. It is like some crazy politicians
say that since tomorrow all the bars in Canadian Quebec should serve people in English. ;-)

I already told you that we have exactly the same law in Russia.
So we are humilating people who speak Osetian language?

And as I already told you - it's possible to visit bars in Ukraine without using Ukrainan language.
I did it myself.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Wednesday January 19 2022 10:44, you wrote to me:

NATO actually saves thounsands of human lives in Yugoslavia by
stopping the war. It was a terrible place in the 90s - do you
know anything about Srebrenici?

A Russian NATO's advocate. ;=)

So who was going to stop that war? Name someone, please.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Wednesday January 19 2022 10:52, you wrote to me:

But Russia wants to make Russian language as official language
of Ukraine. That's the problem.

A lie is a bad thing. Russia supports the right of the Russian people
in eastern Ukraine live as Russian people, as they did for hundreds
of years before.

"Russia" means Putin? Because I don't want our country to invade our own neighbors.
And I don't understand what do you mean by saying "live as Russian people".

I have friends in USA who live there as Russian people. So problem so far.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Lee!

Wednesday January 19 2022 01:28, you wrote to me:

Weak Russia with anarchy and nuclear weapons is the most terrible
dream of all American presidents.

Weak Libya with anarchy and nuclear weapons was Qaddafi's worst
nightmare. Until he ended his nuclear weapons program to make GWB
happy.

Qaddafy spent millions of dollars to pay for killing christians in Middle East. He was a terrible guy.

Weak Iraq with anarchy and nuclear weapons was Saddam Hussein's
worst nightmare. Until he never could figure out how to make those
things work, which made GWB very happy.

He also killed tens of thousands shia and kurds in process.

Countries in Central and South America go through periods of
military dictatorships and democracies. Argentina has a very long
history of this. As well as Chile, and other countries. Could the
same happen in the USA? Or Canada? In Europe, or Australia? It
can happen anywhere, given the right conditions.

We have "secret service" dictatorship here. Not like in South America.
Military has almost no political power.


Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, alexander!

Wednesday January 19 2022 10:43, you wrote to Ghil Zvidgzul:

You forgot NATO intervention in Lybia. Exactly after that fucking adventure Europe got its flow of fugitives and eternal pain in its
ass. ;=)

I personally know people who's relatives where killed in Lebanon in 80s because Gaddafi was paying to palestinian terrorist for each killed christian.
And they are very happy that he got what he deserves.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, Terry!

Wednesday January 19 2022 10:49, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

IMHO, computers made English the default language of the world.

Only 5% of our citizens speak some English.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hi Dmitry,

Only 5% of our citizens speak some English.

Might help explain why 95% are not doing so well :)

Years ago there was a dream for a universal language but when PC's came it seemed to die a death. Maybe I am wrong but I would say English is the most common language used for business after working in many countries in the past.

Terry

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)

Hello, Dmitry!

And Dresden ... when I passed there in the 1990-ies the damage
still had not been repaired.

The fire-bombing of Tokyo also killed more people than Nagasaki
and Hiroshima.

And I also believe Russia suffered more casualties than anybody
else, a thing often overlooked in the west.

We've lost about 80k soldiers during Battle for Berlin, it would be
much better to just drop nuclear bomb and save their lives.

It's wrong way of thinking. If a war is about to start (Ukraine , Syria etc.) wouldn't be better to drop nuclear bombs from your point of view to prevent the war? And who's going to decide? Whom do we entrust such power to drop atomic bombs?

Ghil.
--- -� �� �� �����⢮� ���﫨��. �������, �� ��?
* Origin: ��ࠢ쨭� ᯨ�⮬ ᮢ���� ������ (2:5030/1081.117)

Hello, Ward!

Ghil,

Nazism and Communism is gone. But:
21st century Afghanistan, Iraq
20th century: NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, Vietnam, Atomic bombings
of Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?

If you want to decently discuss with me, you need to be intellectually honest .... How old are you?

My point is: even in the 19th century people in the Western World though they were civilized and still we had slavery, colonialism, murder and enslavement of the local inhabitants, conquering wars etc.
This will never end.

BTW: I'm 40. Why is this important?

Ghil.
--- -� �� �� �����⢮� ���﫨��. �������, �� ��?
* Origin: ��ࠢ쨭� ᯨ�⮬ ᮢ���� ������ (2:5030/1081.117)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Ghil!

Wednesday January 19 2022 05:31, you wrote to me:

We've lost about 80k soldiers during Battle for Berlin, it would
be much better to just drop nuclear bomb and save their lives.

It's wrong way of thinking. If a war is about to start (Ukraine ,
Syria etc.) wouldn't be better to drop nuclear bombs from your point
of view to prevent the war? And who's going to decide? Whom do we

I don't see how situation in Ukraine could be compared with Battle for Berlin. Russian just should stop invading neighboring countries and care more about it's own citizens.

entrust such power to drop atomic bombs?

Do you remember our politicians who publicly announced ideas to nuke Turkey and USA?
It's became a new normality in Russia to say such thing.

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Ghil,

BTW: I'm 40. Why is this important?

Just curious in the renewal of ideas ... I figured you were one of the younger ones. You made some interesting points ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello Dmitry,

What we had in WWII was a breakdown in diplomacy. A disaster
in the making turned into a hard reality.

I don't think that it was possible to spot WWII ny diplomacy..

There was WWI. When all the sides ran out of young people
(due to the Spanish Flu), all who were left was a bunch of
old men. And a few broken-hearted ladies who had lost their
sons. So they all had to wait twenty years when a new crop
of young people became available.

No, Japan surrended very soon after the bombing. They were
shocked.

Why did Japan surrender?

Because they were shocked by US actions.

You are talking about a country that had given up guns.
Then was invaded. Then having to take up guns again.
So nothing could shock them by US actions, or actions
by any other country.

The Japanese military had offered to surrender long before Hiroshima
and Nagasaki were atomised. Truman rejected the offer, insisting on
unconditional surrender. Of course, the Japanese military leadership
would never go for that, as doing so would mean their own deaths.

No, Jaoan was going to resist!

The Japanese military had offered to surrender. That means no
resistance. So why did US President Truman reject the Japanese
offer to surrender?

The Emperor cried "Uncle!" and crowned Douglas MacArthur as god.

God?! Are you ok?

Little "g", not big "G".

US President Truman insisted on "unconditional surrender". What he
meant by that was Emperor Hirohito had to renounce his claim as a
living god. It took two atomic bombs, and a few days more, to convince
the Emperor to give in to Truman's demand.

That is why the Japanese people revered General Douglas MacArthur
as a living god, as he had the blessing of the Emperor.

Did he make the right decision? For the rest of his life, Emperor
Hirohito wondered. And never found the answer he was seeking.

His grandson is now Emperor. To date, he has never renounced his
own claim as a living god. And why should he? He is an advocate for
peace.

--Lee

--
Travel should take you places

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Dmitry,

Japan was a defeated entity before two cities were atomized.

No, we had to fight Kwantung Army with a lot of ressitance.

FDR, Churchill, and Stalin had worked out a plan on how to
conduct the war. However, FDR died unexpectedly in April 1945,
and the war was still raging in the Far East. The plan called
for Stalin to wait until April to begin activities in that
area.

Truman wanted to go in a different direction. But Stalin chose
to stay the course, and stuck with the plan devised.

The activities in the Far East are only given scant attention
by historians. Almost as if such events never happened. One can
only imagine how much longer the war in the Pacific would have
continued had no action been taken.

The Atlantic theater was about defense. German and Italian POWs
were treated well, and allowed privileges. The Pacific theater was
far different, as it was about revenge, with what few Japanese POWs
that had been taken treated very poorly.

We had tens of thousands of Japanese POWs working in Siberia in USSR, BTW.

The USA put its own citizens in such detention camps. Anybody who
even looked Japanese qualified. Except in Hawai'i.

Stalin also tried to take part from Iran and Turkey just after
the war. Only invention of nuclear weapon stopped him.

FDR wanted to share the technology with Stalin. His unexpected
death (of a stroke) prevented that from happening. And then Stalin
had to deal with Truman.

I don't think that transfer of technology to USSR was an idea of any US president.

We will never know what FDR would have done had he not died
in office before the end of the war. FDR and Stalin regarded
each other as friends, and historians have noted how well
the two of them got along. Churchill was a different story,
as nobody really got along with him.

--Lee

--
In solidarity - RIP George Floyd - Black Lives Matter

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Dmitry,

Weak Russia with anarchy and nuclear weapons is the most terrible
dream of all American presidents.

Weak Libya with anarchy and nuclear weapons was Qaddafi's worst
nightmare. Until he ended his nuclear weapons program to make GWB
happy.

Qaddafy spent millions of dollars to pay for killing christians in Middle East.
He was a terrible guy.

Yes, he was a terrible guy. But he had oil. Lots of oil. And with
all that oil in his pocket, he could make many friends. Of his own
choosing.

Weak Iraq with anarchy and nuclear weapons was Saddam Hussein's
worst nightmare. Until he never could figure out how to make those
things work, which made GWB very happy.

He also killed tens of thousands shia and kurds in process.

Not to worry. GWB turned him over to a Shia hit squad. They
knew what to do with him.

Countries in Central and South America go through periods of
military dictatorships and democracies. Argentina has a very long
history of this. As well as Chile, and other countries. Could the
same happen in the USA? Or Canada? In Europe, or Australia? It
can happen anywhere, given the right conditions.

We have "secret service" dictatorship here. Not like in South America. Military has almost no political power.

Lemme see if I got this right. The USA has 500,000 personnel
in over 800 foreign bases surrounding both China and Russia.
Russia has 14 foreign bases surrounding no one.

But Russia is the aggressor, and wants to invade Ukraine.

Please tell me that makes sense.

--Lee

--
The people! Unite! Will never be defeated!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Dmitry,

You forgot NATO intervention in Lybia. Exactly after that fucking
adventure Europe got its flow of fugitives and eternal pain in its
ass. ;=)

I personally know people who's relatives where killed in Lebanon in 80s because Gaddafi was paying to palestinian terrorist for each killed christian.
And they are very happy that he got what he deserves.

"We came, we saw, he died."
~ Hillary Clinton, in regards to Gaddafi, 20 October 2011

--Lee

--
Food for the Fun of It

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Lee!

Wednesday January 19 2022 14:33, you wrote to me:

"We came, we saw, he died."
~ Hillary Clinton, in regards to Gaddafi, 20 October 2011

Let him rot in hell!

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, Lee!

Wednesday January 19 2022 14:33, you wrote to me:

Qaddafy spent millions of dollars to pay for killing christians
in Middle East. He was a terrible guy.

Yes, he was a terrible guy. But he had oil. Lots of oil. And with
all that oil in his pocket, he could make many friends. Of his own choosing.

His "friends" betrayed him, you cannot buy real friendship with money.

He also killed tens of thousands shia and kurds in process.

Not to worry. GWB turned him over to a Shia hit squad. They
knew what to do with him.

Sure, his execution was a consequence of his actions.

We have "secret service" dictatorship here. Not like in South
America. Military has almost no political power.

Lemme see if I got this right. The USA has 500,000 personnel
in over 800 foreign bases surrounding both China and Russia.
Russia has 14 foreign bases surrounding no one.

But Russia is the aggressor, and wants to invade Ukraine.

We've already invaded Ukraine and cut part of it's territory. Now comes act #2.

Please tell me that makes sense.

I don't see any intention from USA to start any war with us. Not now, not in nearest future.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, Lee!

Wednesday January 19 2022 14:33, you wrote to me:

There was WWI. When all the sides ran out of young people
(due to the Spanish Flu), all who were left was a bunch of
old men. And a few broken-hearted ladies who had lost their
sons. So they all had to wait twenty years when a new crop
of young people became available.

We've actually lost WWI and Germany got big part of our country. We were lucky that Entente won.

Because they were shocked by US actions.

You are talking about a country that had given up guns.
Then was invaded. Then having to take up guns again.
So nothing could shock them by US actions, or actions
by any other country.

Destruction of the whole city with just 1 bomb wasn't something seen before.

The Japanese military had offered to surrender. That means no
resistance. So why did US President Truman reject the Japanese
offer to surrender?

The same reason why contacts from German army with Allies were unsuccessful.

That is why the Japanese people revered General Douglas MacArthur
as a living god, as he had the blessing of the Emperor.

I've talked to many Japanese in my life and no one was reffering to any american as "god" ;)

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, Dmitry!

I don't see any intention from USA to start any war with us. Not now,
not in nearest future.

But US could use Ukraine as its "ally" to establish NATO bases. And, with bases in place, they could host missles, even nuclear ones that would directly threaten Russia and its defense capabilities. Shouldn't Russia feel threatened?

Ghil.
--- -� �� �� �����⢮� ���﫨��. �������, �� ��?
* Origin: ��ࠢ쨭� ᯨ�⮬ ᮢ���� ������ (2:5030/1081.117)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Ghil!

Wednesday January 19 2022 09:24, you wrote to me:

But US could use Ukraine as its "ally" to establish NATO bases. And,

Ukraine had Russian base in Crimea which was used for invasion back in 2014. Sounds like Ukraine is a bit scared about Russia :)

with bases in place, they could host missles, even nuclear ones that
would directly threaten Russia and its defense capabilities. Shouldn't Russia feel threatened?

Distance from Moscow to Latvian border is almost the same as distance to Ukrainan border. And actually no one was really worried about that for many years (Latvia joined NATO in 2003).


Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello Terry,

Only 5% of our citizens speak some English.

Might help explain why 95% are not doing so well :)

Years ago there was a dream for a universal language but when PC's came it seemed to die a death. Maybe I am wrong but I would say English is the most
common language used for business after working in many countries in the past.

And commercial airplane pilots.

Today, computers can talk with other computers. In so doing,
computers are inventing their own language. Which over time, none
of us will be able to understand. What happens then?

Their language will be a universal language. But only among
computers. Granted, this universal language can also be used
by robots. After all, it is artificial intelligence.

Meanwhile, the less sentient will have to do with their own
very limited language capabilities ...

--Lee

--
Love trumps hate!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Ghil,

It's wrong way of thinking. If a war is about to start (Ukraine , Syria etc.) wouldn't be better to drop nuclear bombs from your point of view to prevent the war? And who's going to decide?

GWB summed it all up in three simple words - "I'm the decider."

Whom do we entrust such power to drop atomic bombs?

The US President has all the power in the world to do whatever
he wants to drop nuclear bombs. All he has to do is push the button.
The big red one, that not even he can miss.

The US President has sole discretion to do so. I know of no other
leader in the world who has such authority. Not even Vladimir Putin
has the right to do so.

That makes the US President the most powerful person in the world.
Nobody can tell him what to do. Or not to do. He can do whatever he
wants, whenever he wants. And nobody can stop him.

All it takes is one finger. Pressing the right button.

--Lee

--
Pussy grabs back!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Ghil!

Wednesday January 19 2022 10:45, you wrote to me:

Latvia is a lost cause from russian point of view, but they didn't
give up on Ukraine. The pro-russian electorate in Eastern and Southern Ukraine could be decisive in the future.
https://tinyurl.com/28vb6yp3

Eastern Ukraine de-facto is not Ukranian territory anymore.
It's on Russia's payroll and will be our problem for many years to come.

And I think Putin can't deal with the fact that Ukraine is going to
join NATO. Ukraine being what it is (east slavic, common roots) for
Putin it's like a betrayal. Odessa being founded by Russian empress

Poland is also east slavic.

Catherine the Great. Still, too many resentments. And it's more like a

Catherine was not even Russian ;)

matter of russian national pride "not to lose Ukraine". Putin doesn't

So "our pride" is to invade our neighbor and to kill it's soldiers?!

have a vassal in Ukraine like he has in Belarus in the person of Lukashenko. And the mere fact that Ukraine choose americans and NATO instead of russians makes this "betrayal" more bitter.

They've lost Crimea and Donbass, it's like they are going to trust Putin anymore.

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, Dmitry!

with bases in place, they could host missles, even nuclear ones
that would directly threaten Russia and its defense capabilities.
Shouldn't Russia feel threatened?

Distance from Moscow to Latvian border is almost the same as distance
to Ukrainan border. And actually no one was really worried about that
for many years (Latvia joined NATO in 2003).

Latvia is a lost cause from russian point of view, but they didn't give up on Ukraine. The pro-russian electorate in Eastern and Southern Ukraine could be decisive in the future.
https://tinyurl.com/28vb6yp3
And I think Putin can't deal with the fact that Ukraine is going to join NATO. Ukraine being what it is (east slavic, common roots) for Putin it's like a betrayal. Odessa being founded by Russian empress Catherine the Great. Still, too many resentments. And it's more like a matter of russian national pride "not to lose Ukraine". Putin doesn't have a vassal in Ukraine like he has in Belarus in the person of Lukashenko. And the mere fact that Ukraine choose americans and NATO instead of russians makes this "betrayal" more bitter.

Ghil.
--- -� �� �� �����⢮� ���﫨��. �������, �� ��?
* Origin: ��ࠢ쨭� ᯨ�⮬ ᮢ���� ������ (2:5030/1081.117)

Hi Lee,

On Jan 19, 2022 04:05pm, Lee Lofaso wrote to Terry Roati:

And commercial airplane pilots.

Bingo.

Today, computers can talk with other computers. In so doing,
computers are inventing their own language. Which over time, none
of us will be able to understand. What happens then?

Pull the power plug?

Terry

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 19.01.2022 12:05

DP> I already told you that we have exactly the same law in Russia.
DP> So we are humilating people who speak Osetian language?

They learned to speak Russian hundreds years ago, while joining
voluntarily to Russia. And even in this case the czarist Russia also
violated their rights. But it is incompatible by the scale with the
situation in Ukraine.

DP> And as I already told you - it's possible to visit bars in
DP> Ukraine without using Ukrainan language. I did it myself.

I didn't speak about tourists. I told of the Russian people workers in
Russian speaking areas. It is their land. The earlier Ukrainian
nationalists understand it the sooner two nations will be able live
peacefully together.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 19.01.2022 12:08

DP>>> NATO actually saves thounsands of human lives in
DP>>> Yugoslavia by stopping the war. It was a terrible place
DP>>> in the 90s - do you know anything about Srebrenici?
ak>> A Russian NATO's advocate. ;=)
DP> So who was going to stop that war? Name someone, please.

So why they condemn Russia who stops fighting in Ukraine Russian
speaking areas? ;-)

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
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Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 19.01.2022 12:09

ak>> A lie is a bad thing. Russia supports the right of the
ak>> Russian people in eastern Ukraine live as Russian people,
ak>> as they did for hundreds of years before.
DP> "Russia" means Putin? Because I don't want our country to
DP> invade our own neighbors.

You are young. It was one country, the USSR. And the division of its
territory after the divorce was very chaotic, unlawful and unjust. So
millions of Russian people who suddenly appeared in neighbour countries
should be heard.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Thursday January 20 2022 16:46, you wrote to me:

I already told you that we have exactly the same law in Russia.
So we are humilating people who speak Osetian language?

They learned to speak Russian hundreds years ago, while joining voluntarily to Russia. And even in this case the czarist Russia also violated their rights. But it is incompatible by the scale with the situation in Ukraine.

So they have to speak Russian, right? And why do think that Russians in Ukraine can't learn Ukranian?

And as I already told you - it's possible to visit bars in
Ukraine without using Ukrainan language. I did it myself.

I didn't speak about tourists. I told of the Russian people workers in
Russian speaking areas. It is their land. The earlier Ukrainian

Osetia is also land of local people. But they have to speak Russian. And people in all regions of Russia have to use Russian as main language.
You can't even have exams in school in any other language.

nationalists understand it the sooner two nations will be able live
peacefully together.

I think we were living quite peacefully for many years. Until Crimea annexation.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 19.01.2022 12:43

ak>> You forgot NATO intervention in Lybia. Exactly after that
ak>> fucking adventure Europe got its flow of fugitives and
ak>> eternal pain in its ass. ;=)
DP> I personally know people who's relatives where killed in
DP> Lebanon in 80s because Gaddafi was paying to palestinian
DP> terrorist for each killed christian. And they are very happy
DP> that he got what he deserves.

Just read about the Sabra and Shatila massacre to learn more about
cristians in Lebanon.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
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*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Thursday January 20 2022 16:50, you wrote to me:

A Russian NATO's advocate. ;=)

So who was going to stop that war? Name someone, please.

So why they condemn Russia who stops fighting in Ukraine Russian
speaking areas? ;-)

How it stopped fighting, hm?

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Thursday January 20 2022 16:54, you wrote to me:

"Russia" means Putin? Because I don't want our country to
invade our own neighbors.

You are young. It was one country, the USSR. And the division of its

USSR was a pretty nasty place, I am very happy that it doesn't exists anymore. It was bad everyone.

territory after the divorce was very chaotic, unlawful and unjust. So

Even the creation on USSR was bloody, unlawful and unjust.

millions of Russian people who suddenly appeared in neighbour
countries should be heard.

Yeah, like french people in Algeria? :)

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello Terry,

And commercial airplane pilots.

Bingo.

I wonder if that British-Belgian gal who flew solo around the world
spoke in English or in Belgian during her flight. Youngest gal to do
it. Took her 150 days, but still one heck of an accomplishment.

Today, computers can talk with other computers. In so doing,
computers are inventing their own language. Which over time, none
of us will be able to understand. What happens then?

Pull the power plug?

Facebook did, after two of its bots went berserk. You can do the same,
as the code is freely available for download. Kind of fun. As long as
you do not let the bots play too long.

https://towardsdatascience.com/the-truth-behind-facebook-ai -inventing-a-new-language-37c5d680e5a7


--Lee

--
I think they bought a Jeep

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* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Thursday January 20 2022 16:59, you wrote to me:

I personally know people who's relatives where killed in
Lebanon in 80s because Gaddafi was paying to palestinian
terrorist for each killed christian. And they are very happy
that he got what he deserves.

Just read about the Sabra and Shatila massacre to learn more about cristians in Lebanon.

That happened after 7 years of war against Palestinian Liberation Organization, armed by Soviet Union and trained at Perevalnoe Training Center-165 in Crimea.
They actually took Lebanon as a hostage in their war against the Israel.


Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
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Hello Alexander,

I already told you that we have exactly the same law in Russia.
So we are humilating people who speak Osetian language?

They learned to speak Russian hundreds years ago, while joining voluntarily to Russia. And even in this case the czarist Russia also violated their rights. But it is incompatible by the scale with the situation in Ukraine.

The origins of Russia began in Ukraine. This was before there
ever was a Ukraine. History is never one event, or place. If one
does not understand the past, it would be impossible to know the
present, and the future would be nothing more than just a blur.

And as I already told you - it's possible to visit bars in
Ukraine without using Ukrainan language. I did it myself.

I didn't speak about tourists. I told of the Russian people workers in Russian speaking areas. It is their land. The earlier Ukrainian nationalists understand it the sooner two nations will be able live peacefully together.

Here in Louisiana many people speak both English and Cajun French.
Some speak only Cajun French, not wishing to learn English at all.

It used to be a majority of people in south Louisiana who could
speak Cajun French, but today it is a small minority. But the
numbers are growing again in some areas. Organizations such
as Sur la Table were formed so people could get together and
speak only Cajun French at social events, or dining. No English
allowed to be spoken by anyone. Including the waiter/waitress.

How did an area that the majority of the population that spoke
Cajun French become a minority? Americanization. Over a long period
of time, the use of English became the dominant language, as most
of the USA (almost all) spoke English rather than French.

In Ukraine, a large number of people speak Russian. But they
are discouraged from speaking Russian, and over a long period
of time would wind up in the same situation as Cajuns.

Cajuns refer to themselves as Cajuns, and are proud of their
French heritage, as well as their own language.

Why would those who speak Russian not be proud of their own
heritage, and language?

There are people of many languages in every country in the world.
But patriotism is not defined by language alone. Far from it.

Europe is odd in the sense that geographical boundaries and
language seem to be same. Those who speak French live in France.
Those who speak German live in Germany. Those who speak Italian
live in Italy. But how does anybody define Switzerland? The best
I can figure is the Swiss are more like Swiss cheese.

--Lee

--
Black lives matter!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Alexander,

A lie is a bad thing. Russia supports the right of the
Russian people in eastern Ukraine live as Russian people,
as they did for hundreds of years before.

"Russia" means Putin? Because I don't want our country to
invade our own neighbors.

You are young. It was one country, the USSR. And the division of its territory after the divorce was very chaotic, unlawful and unjust.

What was Gorbachev to do? Three republics split from the USSR,
with the rest ready to follow suit, is not exactly what one would
call an endorsement. And what about all those nukes no longer in
control by one central power? I wonder what would have happened
had Ukraine held on to its share ...

So millions of Russian people who suddenly appeared in neighbour countries should be heard.

I heard tourism is up in Belarus. Syrians, perhaps?

--Lee

--
Pay your taxes!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

I wonder if that British-Belgian gal who flew solo around the world
spoke in English or in Belgian during her flight. Youngest gal to do
it. Took her 150 days, but still one heck of an accomplishment.

1/ English. What else?

2/ There is no language called "Belgian"

3/ Way more than half of that time she was stuck in Alaska and Siberia due to weather. She flew an ultra-light with extra fueltanks, no pressuriwation.

4/ Rich parents allow you to do such things, or circumnavigate the globe in a sailboat

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 20.01.2022 16:50

ak>> nationalists understand it the sooner two nations will be
ak>> able live peacefully together.
DP> I think we were living quite peacefully for many years. Until
DP> Crimea annexation.

No -- until the Ukrainian ultra-natinalists came to power in Kiev. Until
then there was a sober policy which respected all nations living in the country. Nationalism is an ugliest thing possible.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 20.01.2022 16:58

ak>>>> A Russian NATO's advocate. ;=)
DP>>> So who was going to stop that war? Name someone, please.
ak>> So why they condemn Russia who stops fighting in Ukraine
ak>> Russian speaking areas?;-)
DP> How it stopped fighting, hm?

It is correct that Russia didn't drop a single bomb on Ukraine and no
Russian planes ever bombed Ukrainian troops. Explanation is simple -- Ukrainian troops and nationalist units can fight only with people
without weapon. We just helped them with weapon and some our volunteers
also participated.

It it correct that Russian troops are now near Ukrainan border at the
Russian side. It is a lie that we are now occuping Dombass region, and
we are the only force that prevents Kiev from capturing the territories
back.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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Hi, Lee Lofaso!
I read your message from 20.01.2022 21:12

DP>>> I already told you that we have exactly the same law in Russia.
DP>>> So we are humilating people who speak Osetian language?

ak>> They learned to speak Russian hundreds years ago, while joining
ak>> voluntarily to Russia. And even in this case the czarist Russia
ak>> also violated their rights. But it is incompatible by the scale
ak>> with the situation in Ukraine.

IG> The origins of Russia began in Ukraine. This was before there ever
IG> was a Ukraine. History is never one event, or place. If one does
IG> not understand the past, it would be impossible to know the
IG> present, and the future would be nothing more than just a blur.

Old history is useless. For instance, Ukraine was a part of Poland. So what?

DP>>> And as I already told you - it's possible to visit bars in
DP>>> Ukraine without using Ukrainan language. I did it myself.

ak>> I didn't speak about tourists. I told of the Russian people
ak>> workers in Russian speaking areas. It is their land. The earlier
ak>> Ukrainian nationalists understand it the sooner two nations will
ak>> be able live peacefully together.

IG> Here in Louisiana many people speak both English and Cajun French.
IG> Some speak only Cajun French, not wishing to learn English at all.

They are not dull-witted nationalists.

IG> It used to be a majority of people in south Louisiana who could
IG> speak Cajun French, but today it is a small minority. But the
IG> numbers are growing again in some areas. Organizations such as Sur
IG> la Table were formed so people could get together and speak only
IG> Cajun French at social events, or dining. No English allowed to be
IG> spoken by anyone. Including the waiter/waitress.

IG> How did an area that the majority of the population that spoke
IG> Cajun French become a minority? Americanization. Over a long period
IG> of time, the use of English became the dominant language, as most
IG> of the USA (almost all) spoke English rather than French.

This process was also in Ukraine (in the USSR) -- most people started
prefer to speak Russian. But it was their personal free choice because
they could speak Ukrainian, they learned it at local schools.
Another matter that eastern and south parts of Ukraine was always
populated by Russian people.

IG> In Ukraine, a large number of people speak Russian. But they are
IG> discouraged from speaking Russian, and over a long period of time
IG> would wind up in the same situation as Cajuns.

In any case the process of language defence should not be a violence
over the people who spoke their different language for centuries. The
Ukraine was divided roughly speaking by half. Those who want to develop
the Ukrainian language can do it in the Ukrainian speaking areas.

Bye, Lee!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Friday January 21 2022 09:08, you wrote to me:

nationalists understand it the sooner two nations will be
able live peacefully together.

I think we were living quite peacefully for many years. Until
Crimea annexation.

No -- until the Ukrainian ultra-natinalists came to power in Kiev.

As I already told you - I had no problems in Kiev with my Russian language. So I don't see why ultra-nationalists in fact did nothing to prevent me and other people speak most of the time :)
Have you been to Ukraine youself in recent year?

Until then there was a sober policy which respected all nations living
in the country. Nationalism is an ugliest thing possible.

Nationalism is a just a normal policy for multiple conutries.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
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*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Friday January 21 2022 09:18, you wrote to me:

How it stopped fighting, hm?

It is correct that Russia didn't drop a single bomb on Ukraine and no Russian planes ever bombed Ukrainian troops. Explanation is simple --

Russian invaded Crimea officially! Using it's base as a tool.

Ukrainian troops and nationalist units can fight only with people
without weapon. We just helped them with weapon and some our
volunteers also participated.

Now they are getting quite modern weapons from the US and UK. Situation changed.
Do you remember that partisans in Ukraine stopped fighting only in 1957?

It it correct that Russian troops are now near Ukrainan border at the Russian side. It is a lie that we are now occuping Dombass region, and
we are the only force that prevents Kiev from capturing the
territories back.

We are sending people and military equipment to Donbass.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

It is correct that Russia didn't drop a single bomb on Ukraine and no Russian planes ever bombed Ukrainian troops. Explanation is simple -- Ukrainian troops and nationalist units can fight only with people
without weapon. We just helped them with weapon and some our volunteers also participated.

As with the shootdown of Malaysian Airlines MH17 ... July 17 2014 ... neither had surface-to-air missiles and NATO did "not" provide them.

I'm amazed that Russia keeps denying its involvement. It places itself among other rogue nations such as USA, China, Turkey, Myanmar, 80% of Africa, Saudi-Arabia, etc ... that do as they please under the guise of national interest.

It it correct that Russian troops are now near Ukrainan border at the Russian side. It is a lie that we are now occuping Dombass region, and
we are the only force that prevents Kiev from capturing the territories back.

I find it strange that an autonomous country, which Ukraine is, even has to "capture" its own territory.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello, alexander!

��⭨� 21 ������ 2022 09:18, �� ��ᠫ(�) Dmitry Protasoff, � ᮮ�饭�� �� ��뫪� area://fidonews?msgid=2:5075/128.130+860951ad:

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 20.01.2022 16:58

A Russian NATO's advocate. ;=)

So who was going to stop that war? Name someone, please.

So why they condemn Russia who stops fighting in Ukraine
Russian speaking areas?;-)

How it stopped fighting, hm?

we are the only force that prevents Kiev from capturing the
territories back.

Ukraine holds sovereignty over all the territory of Ukraine. According to international law Ukraine has all the rights to "recapture" the territories back.

Ghil.
--- -� �� �� �����⢮� ���﫨��. �������, �� ��?
* Origin: ��ࠢ쨭� ᯨ�⮬ ᮢ���� ������ (2:5030/1081.117)

Hello Alexander,

nationalists understand it the sooner two nations will be
able live peacefully together.

I think we were living quite peacefully for many years. Until
Crimea annexation.

No -- until the Ukrainian ultra-natinalists came to power in Kiev. Until then there was a sober policy which respected all nations living in the country. Nationalism is an ugliest thing possible.

Two different things - society and culture.

A people define themselves by language. Not by geographical boundaries,
which are nothing but abstract lines. Hispanics speak Spanish, and do
not define themselves by where they live, or by race, or any other
criteria but the language they have in common (Spanish). Cajuns are
the same, but it is French rather than Spanish.

The question is, is society part of a culture, or is culture a part
of society? I think the answer to that question can easily be shown.

The Cajun people were here before there ever was a USA. And yet the
USA wants to regard Cajuns as being a part of society rather than the
other way around.

The problem with that view is that Cajun culture will continue
long after the society of the USA (or the country) ceases to exist.

The same traditions that Cajuns had before there ever was a USA,
during its existence, and after its demise, will continue.

The same can be said of the people residing in Ukraine, regardless
of language spoken.

Do you think the people of Crimea are any different today than
they were a few years ago? They are exactly the same people, and
continue in their own ways.

Mardi Gras is upon us here in Louisiana. And Jazz Fest is near.
This is a time when Cajuns like to party, and celebrate all there
is and can be.

Now if only the New Orleans Saints football team can find a way
to start winning games again ...

--Lee

--
Impossible is nothing

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Alexander,

I already told you that we have exactly the same law in Russia.
So we are humilating people who speak Osetian language?

They learned to speak Russian hundreds years ago, while joining
voluntarily to Russia. And even in this case the czarist Russia
also violated their rights. But it is incompatible by the scale
with the situation in Ukraine.

The origins of Russia began in Ukraine. This was before there ever
was a Ukraine. History is never one event, or place. If one does
not understand the past, it would be impossible to know the
present, and the future would be nothing more than just a blur.

Old history is useless. For instance, Ukraine was a part of Poland. So what?

Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

And as I already told you - it's possible to visit bars in
Ukraine without using Ukrainan language. I did it myself.

I didn't speak about tourists. I told of the Russian people
workers in Russian speaking areas. It is their land. The earlier
Ukrainian nationalists understand it the sooner two nations will
be able live peacefully together.

Here in Louisiana many people speak both English and Cajun French.
Some speak only Cajun French, not wishing to learn English at all.

They are not dull-witted nationalists.

Brilliant people, whether they speak English, Cajun, or both.
When a people are seen or treated as second-rate citizens, it is
a loss for an entire country.

It used to be a majority of people in south Louisiana who could
speak Cajun French, but today it is a small minority. But the
numbers are growing again in some areas. Organizations such as Sur
la Table were formed so people could get together and speak only
Cajun French at social events, or dining. No English allowed to be
spoken by anyone. Including the waiter/waitress.

How did an area that the majority of the population that spoke
Cajun French become a minority? Americanization. Over a long period
of time, the use of English became the dominant language, as most
of the USA (almost all) spoke English rather than French.

This process was also in Ukraine (in the USSR) -- most people started prefer to speak Russian. But it was their personal free choice because they could speak Ukrainian, they learned it at local schools.
Another matter that eastern and south parts of Ukraine was always populated by Russian people.

The previous administration in Ukraine treated all people equally,
regardless of region or language spoken. I should say all previous administrations.

That probably explains why the current president has lost his
majority, and may be on his way out later this year to whoever
runs against him.

In Ukraine, a large number of people speak Russian. But they are
discouraged from speaking Russian, and over a long period of time
would wind up in the same situation as Cajuns.

In any case the process of language defence should not be a violence
over the people who spoke their different language for centuries. The Ukraine was divided roughly speaking by half. Those who want to develop the Ukrainian language can do it in the Ukrainian speaking areas.

Why should Ukrainians limit themselves to where they can speak
their own language inside their own country? Cajuns do not limit
themselves to speaking Cajun French anywhere in Louisiana, or in
the USA, or in any other place in the world.

But try to order mashed potatoes in Cajun French in Montreal.
I love the food, as it is really good. But Cajuns have no word
for "mashed". Had to use hand gestures, which the Quebe�ois
found very amusing.

--Lee

--
There's no split in Cremo.

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Ward,

I wonder if that British-Belgian gal who flew solo around the world
spoke in English or in Belgian during her flight. Youngest gal to do
it. Took her 150 days, but still one heck of an accomplishment.

1/ English. What else?

Hispanics speak Spanglish. Does that qualify?

2/ There is no language called "Belgian"

Grecians speak Greek.
But what kind of language do Americans speak?

3/ Way more than half of that time she was stuck in Alaska and Siberia due to weather. She flew an ultra-light with extra fueltanks, no pressuriwation.

She says the most dangerous time during her journey was when she
was over Russia, with nothing but ice below her, with no trees around.
Had she had any problem with her plane, she would have been stranded
with no possibility of being rescued before becoming a popsicle.

4/ Rich parents allow you to do such things, or circumnavigate the globe in
a sailboat

You do have to give her credit for being a better navigator than
her hero, Amelia Earhardt.

--Lee

--
Melts in your mouth, not in your hands

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

You do have to give her credit for being a better navigator than
her hero, Amelia Earhardt.

Fred Noonan was Earhardt's navigator. Amelia handled the plane. Noonan was a known alcoholic and Earhardt just a mediocre pilot.

The Belgian/British girl had a plane with GPS, ADS-B, computerized flight plans at the click of a button, SAR-services, satellite trackers, accurate weather information ...

It's a different world ... I once handled the controls of a Cirrus-22. Fully computerized glass cockpit. My friend Fred who was a 747-captain at the time said that small plane had better instrumentation than the 747.

My other friend who flew the Cirrus, in Montana, said "Let's plot a route to London Heathrow" ... He entered the ICAO code in the computer and within seconds we had a flight plan with landing stops, refueling options, alternate airports, oceanic clearance, etc... He said "If I press this button the flightplan is automatically filed and we're on our way to London England".

It's a different world than flying in a pre-WW2 Lockheed Vega. The flight required a mix of dead-reckoning and celestial navigation with a sextant and they failed to show-up at Howland. They were at the correct longitude but either too far north or too far south and when Amelia decided to fly along the longitude-line of Howland she probably turned into the wrong direction. Poor preparation, amateurism, inexperience, ...

Today Zara Rutherford would've entered some coordinates in her flight computer and switched on the autopilot, then continued checking Facebook by satellite internet.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 21.01.2022 10:07

ak>> Until then there was a sober policy which respected all
ak>> nations living in the country. Nationalism is an ugliest
ak>> thing possible.
DP> Nationalism is a just a normal policy for multiple conutries.

Aggressive nationalism is the core reason of all troubles after WWII.
When some fucking politics invent ideas that their nation is above others.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 21.01.2022 10:08

ak>> Ukrainian troops and nationalist units can fight only with
ak>> people without weapon. We just helped them with weapon and
ak>> some our volunteers also participated.
DP> Now they are getting quite modern weapons from the US and UK.
DP> Situation changed. Do you remember that partisans in Ukraine
DP> stopped fighting only in 1957?

Now apply it to the Russian Dombass partisans. ;-)

ak>> It it correct that Russian troops are now near Ukrainan
ak>> border at the Russian side. It is a lie that we are now
ak>> occuping Dombass region, and we are the only force that
ak>> prevents Kiev from capturing the territories back.
DP> We are sending people and military equipment to Donbass.



Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 21.01.2022 12:54

ak>> It is correct that Russia didn't drop a single bomb on Ukraine and
ak>> no Russian planes ever bombed Ukrainian troops. Explanation is
ak>> simple -- Ukrainian troops and nationalist units can fight only
ak>> with people without weapon. We just helped them with weapon and
ak>> some our volunteers also participated.

WD> As with the shootdown of Malaysian Airlines MH17... July 17 2014...
WD> neither had surface-to-air missiles and NATO did "not" provide
WD> them.

Bad accidents often happen during wars. For instance, you can read about multiple cases of friendly fire. War is a crime by itself.
Especially such accidents are probable when people for a long time have
no a real war practice. Your probably read how Ukraine shot down a
Russian passenger plain in 2001. BTW it refused from the responsibility, although evidences were 100 times more obvious then in the MH17 case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

WD> I'm amazed that Russia keeps denying its involvement. It places
WD> itself among other rogue nations such as USA, China, Turkey,
WD> Myanmar, 80% of Africa, Saudi-Arabia, etc... that do as they please
WD> under the guise of national interest.

ak>> It it correct that Russian troops are now near Ukrainan border at
ak>> the Russian side. It is a lie that we are now occuping Dombass
ak>> region, and we are the only force that prevents Kiev from
ak>> capturing the territories back.

WD> I find it strange that an autonomous country, which Ukraine is,
WD> even has to "capture" its own territory.

Two nations have a war in Ukraine. One nation wants to dominate and
assimilate another. Another nation will never allow it. Well, Russia
helps Russian people in Dombass, but Russian troops -- that's correct --
still are on the Russian side of the border.

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
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Aggressive nationalism is the core reason of all troubles after WWII.
When some fucking politics invent ideas that their nation is above
others.

One day we need to share a beer ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello, alexander!

Monday January 24 2022 09:27, you wrote to me:

Aggressive nationalism is the core reason of all troubles after WWII.

Agressive "anything" is the core reason of all troubles.

When some fucking politics invent ideas that their nation is above
others.

That's why you can use only Russian language in Russia for school exams? :)

Best regards,
dp.

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Hello, alexander!

Monday January 24 2022 09:30, you wrote to me:

Now apply it to the Russian Dombass partisans. ;-)

As long as Russia pays them.. Next time you hear that some Russian child dies because of lack of money for his treatment - just be proud that we are supporting those quasi states for some geopolitican reasons :)

Best regards,
dp.

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Hi, Ghil Zvidgzul!
I read your message from 22.01.2022 16:23

ak>>>> So why they condemn Russia who stops fighting in
ak>>>> Ukraine Russian speaking areas?;-)
DP>>> How it stopped fighting, hm?
ak>> we are the only force that prevents Kiev from capturing the
ak>> territories back.
GZ> Ukraine holds sovereignty over all the territory of Ukraine.
GZ> According to international law Ukraine has all the rights to
GZ> "recapture" the territories back.

The USA and NATO forgot about international laws when they bombed
Yugoslavia, although, according your logic, Yugoslavia also had the
right to return its lost territories back.

Bye, Ghil!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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Hello, alexander!

Monday January 24 2022 10:11, you wrote to Ghil Zvidgzul:

The USA and NATO forgot about international laws when they bombed Yugoslavia, although, according your logic, Yugoslavia also had the

But who was going to stop civil war?

right to return its lost territories back.

"Yugoslavia" means serbs ony? What about croats?

Best regards,
dp.
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Hi, Lee Lofaso!
I read your message from 23.01.2022 02:11

LL> The previous administration in Ukraine treated all people
LL> equally, regardless of region or language spoken. I should say
LL> all previous administrations.

Ukraine was divide in two part. Its former president held a balanced
position on this account. That why everything was peaceful when
Yanukovich was in power.

LL> That probably explains why the current president has lost his
LL> majority, and may be on his way out later this year to whoever
LL> runs against him.

The main problem is that the Ukraine ultra-nationalists actually can
dictate their will to any Ukrainian president. That's why stopping the
war in the Ukrainian east is unlikely.

Bye, Lee!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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Hello, alexander!

Monday January 24 2022 10:18, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

Ukraine was divide in two part. Its former president held a balanced position on this account. That why everything was peaceful when
Yanukovich was in power.

Killing people on the streets is not very peacefull behavior.



Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
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Aggressive nationalism is the core reason of all troubles after WWII.
When some fucking politics invent ideas that their nation is above
others.

One day we need to share a beer ...

I'll drink to that.




..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
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One day we need to share a beer ...

I'll drink to that.

With you too ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello, alexander!

Two nations have a war in Ukraine. One nation wants to dominate and assimilate another. Another nation will never allow it.

It could be the other way around! Many russians say that: "there are no ukrainians, they are a part of russian people" and that "there should be no Ukraine on the map". Even Putin said it: "Russians and Ukrainians were one people". Maybe the so called ukrainian language question is just an excuse and the fact that many russians in Ukraine refuse to speak ukrainian will be used as a tool to assimilate ukrainian language into the great russian:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Russian_language

Ghil.
--- -� �� �� �����⢮� ���﫨��. �������, �� ��?
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It could be the other way around! Many russians say that: "there are no ukrainians, they are a part of russian people" and that "there should be
no Ukraine on the map". Even Putin said it: "Russians and Ukrainians were one people". Maybe the so called ukrainian language question is just an excuse and the fact that many russians in Ukraine refuse to speak
ukrainian will be used as a tool to assimilate ukrainian language into
the great russian:

You guys are all idiots.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello, Ward!

It could be the other way around! Many russians say that: "there
are no ukrainians, they are a part of russian people" and that
"there should be no Ukraine on the map". Even Putin said it:
"Russians and Ukrainians were one people". Maybe the so called
ukrainian language question is just an excuse and the fact that
many russians in Ukraine refuse to speak ukrainian will be used as
a tool to assimilate ukrainian language into the great russian:

You guys are all idiots.

I'm not russian.
But in the recent Article by Vladimir Putin "On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians".
Read his speech:
http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/66181
A quote: "Russians, Ukrainians, and Belarusians are all descendants of Ancient Rus, which was the largest state in Europe".
This is what he (Putin) and the majority of russians believe. If he believes that russians and ukrainians were a whole: quote "I said that Russians and Ukrainians were one people - a single whole." Maybe he wishes to "repair wrongdoing". If he thinks he was "chosen" for this "mission" and the people and the army support him we could have a russian invasion of the Eastern Ukraine (in case Ukraine decides to reconquer Donbass).
Ghil.
--- -� �� �� �����⢮� ���﫨��. �������, �� ��?
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Ghil,

(in case Ukraine decides to reconquer Donbass).

1) The territorial entity of Ukraine is known; Ukraine does not need to
reconquer what is already Ukraine;

2) The Donbass-matter can only be solved by political negotiations. Violence
is "never" the answer.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello, Ward!

(in case Ukraine decides to reconquer Donbass).

1) The territorial entity of Ukraine is known; Ukraine does not need
to
reconquer what is already Ukraine;

2) The Donbass-matter can only be solved by political negotiations. Violence
is "never" the answer.

1. Don't you find odd that russians and americans are deciding the fate of Ukraine and not ukrainians? Lavrov and Blinken concluded the talks. They just decided its fate. And Zelensky is not acting by himself.

2. This issue won't be solved peacefully. Just like it started. And I am merely an observer.
From Zelensky's today speech: "We have learned to deter and counter external aggression quite effectively. I am convinced that the time has come to move to offensive actions to defend our national interests. You have the experience and ability to implement such a strategy. Intelligence, the ability to generate unconventional solutions to acute problems, the courage and dedication of every intelligence officer should remain effective tools used for the benefit of our state"
https://tinyurl.com/yvkfpw29 https://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/zovnishnya-rozvidka-vidigraye-vazhlivu-rol-u-protidiyi-zagro-72517
And UK is also withdrawing embassy staff and families from Kiev. That means the war could reach as far as Kiev. Russians allways spoke of "Kiev as the 'mother of Russian cities'.
Ghil.
--- -� �� �� �����⢮� ���﫨��. �������, �� ��?
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Ghil,

1. Don't you find odd that russians and americans are deciding the fate
of Ukraine and not ukrainians?

Yes.

BTW, please remind us here who started this and on what pre-text.

Really, I thought that the military invasion of one country by another was something of the past, maybe only in totalitarian regimes with dictators.

Another Russian economical debacle in the making ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello, Ward!

1. Don't you find odd that russians and americans are deciding the
fate of Ukraine and not ukrainians?

Yes.

BTW, please remind us here who started this and on what pre-text.

Really, I thought that the military invasion of one country by another
was something of the past, maybe only in totalitarian regimes with dictators.

Another Russian economical debacle in the making ...

But it's happening right here and right now. And it's true that russian opinion of Ukraine is as its own backyard. And at the same time the americans are arming ukrainians. There will be blood! And nothing you nor I can do about it.
After US and UK, Australia is withdrawing embassy staff from Kiev.

Ghil.
--- -� �� �� �����⢮� ���﫨��. �������, �� ��?
* Origin: ��ࠢ쨭� ᯨ�⮬ ᮢ���� ������ (2:5030/1081.117)

Ghil,

After US and UK, Australia is withdrawing embassy staff from Kiev.

1/ Any country with balls would "not" withdraw embassy staff. As a staffer
I'd even refuse to leave (and had I been that Ryanair pilot, I wouldn't
have landed in Minsk

2/ Australia is thinking about invading New Zealand soon.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday January 25 2022 12:34, you wrote to me:

"Yugoslavia" means serbs ony? What about croats?

You are blind and deaf when you speak about Russians in Ukraine, but

I talk to Russians in Ukraine every single day multiple times. They are my colleagues, but not brainwashed by Russian propaganda.

very cute when speaking about Croats in Serbia. ;-)

You told me that NATO did some terrible things in Yugoslavia but I don't see your opinion what was the way to stop the war.
Kill as many croats as possible by air strikes and allow serbs to keep Yugoslavia alive?


Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
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Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 24.01.2022 10:21

ak>> Ukraine was divide in two part. Its former president held a
ak>> balanced position on this account. That why everything was
ak>> peaceful when Yanukovich was in power.
DP> Killing people on the streets is not very peacefull behavior.

The Ukrainian ultra-nationalists were the only people in that situation
who didn't want the situation would end peacefully (the peaceful
agreement had been already achieved), and the status quo was preserved.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 24.01.2022 10:04

ak>> When some fucking politics invent ideas that their nation
ak>> is above others.
DP> That's why you can use only Russian language in Russia for
DP> school exams?:)

You can go to West bank and Gaza strip and offer the Arabs to stop being aggressive and start learning Hebrew. ;=)

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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Hi! Ward,

On 25 Jan 22 09:46, you wrote to Ghil Zvidgzul:

2/ Australia is thinking about invading New Zealand soon.

No need. The Australian Constitution already provides for the incorporation of New Zealand into the Commonwealth of Australia. No hassles, although they do have to agree first... a minor sticking point.

Cheers,
Paul.

... Do not open tagline. No user-serviceable parts inside.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20130515
* Origin: Quinn's Rock vBox - sunny-side up on the desktop (3:640/1384)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 24.01.2022 10:05

ak>> Now apply it to the Russian Dombass partisans.;-)
DP> As long as Russia pays them.. Next time you hear that some
DP> Russian child dies because of lack of money for his treatment -
DP> just be proud that we are supporting those quasi states for some
DP> geopolitican reasons:)

The death toll in Dombass is already above 14000. And hundreds of them
are children killed by Ukrain troops. In Leningrad the death toll was
100 times higher. But there was reason why they fought.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday January 25 2022 12:28, you wrote to me:

That's why you can use only Russian language in Russia for
school exams?:)

You can go to West bank and Gaza strip and offer the Arabs to stop
being aggressive and start learning Hebrew. ;=)

West bank is a pretty calm place, BTW. But I still do not understand why your so unhappy that Ukraine will have the same language law as Russia? :)

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
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Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 24.01.2022 10:14

ak>> The USA and NATO forgot about international laws when they
ak>> bombed Yugoslavia, although, according your logic,
ak>> Yugoslavia also had the
DP> But who was going to stop civil war?
ak>> right to return its lost territories back.
DP> "Yugoslavia" means serbs ony? What about croats?

You are blind and deaf when you speak about Russians in Ukraine, but
very cute when speaking about Croats in Serbia. ;-)

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday January 25 2022 12:32, you wrote to me:

The death toll in Dombass is already above 14000. And hundreds of them
are children killed by Ukrain troops. In Leningrad the death toll was

War is always a disaster. But i don't see that people in Russia are unhappy because Russian air forces in Syria killed a lot of children.

100 times higher. But there was reason why they fought.

We had our own Chechnya. A disaster created by ourselves.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
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Hi, Ghil Zvidgzul!
I read your message from 24.01.2022 11:06

ak>> Two nations have a war in Ukraine. One nation wants to
ak>> dominate and assimilate another. Another nation will never
ak>> allow it.
GZ> It could be the other way around! Many russians say that:
GZ> "there are no ukrainians, they are a part of russian people"
GZ> and that "there should be no Ukraine on the map". Even Putin
GZ> said it: "Russians and Ukrainians were one people". Maybe the so
called
GZ> ukrainian language question is just an excuse and the fact that many
GZ> russians in Ukraine refuse to speak ukrainian will be used as a
tool to
GZ> assimilate ukrainian language into the great russian:
GZ> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Russian_language

The situation must be simplified. A half of Ukrainians speaks Russian at
home and consider it as a native language. So the only possible solution
is to preserve both the languages and make the country with areas that
speak different languages. Like Switzerland, Canada, Belgium etc. Such a solution is not the end of the country, but just showing respect to all
people living in the country.

Bye, Ghil!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday January 25 2022 12:47, you wrote to me:

Killing people on the streets is not very peacefull behavior.

The Ukrainian ultra-nationalists were the only people in that
situation who didn't want the situation would end peacefully (the
peaceful agreement had been already achieved), and the status quo was preserved.

The whole story started from Ukrainan's will to sign Association Agreement with EU, something that Putin was not going to accept.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Ghil Zvidgzul!
I read your message from 24.01.2022 18:41

GZ> A quote: "Russians, Ukrainians, and Belarusians are all
GZ> descendants of Ancient Rus, which was the largest state in
GZ> Europe". This is what he (Putin) and the majority of russians
GZ> believe.

Historically it is true. There were never such countries as Ukraine and Belarus. They always were parts of either Poland or Russia, when Poland
itself became a part of Russia. But it was long ago.

Bye, Ghil!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
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Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 25.01.2022 12:30

DP>>> That's why you can use only Russian language in Russia
DP>>> for school exams?:)
ak>> You can go to West bank and Gaza strip and offer the Arabs
ak>> to stop being aggressive and start learning Hebrew. ;=)
DP> West bank is a pretty calm place, BTW. But I still do not
DP> understand why your so unhappy that Ukraine will have the same
DP> language law as Russia?:)

Because of the scale and history. The largest language minority in
Russia is Tatar. In Russia 150 million people and only 4 of them can
speak the Tartar language (2.5%). All the people that came from Ukraine
speak Russian.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday January 25 2022 13:17, you wrote to me:

West bank is a pretty calm place, BTW. But I still do not
understand why your so unhappy that Ukraine will have the same
language law as Russia?:)

Because of the scale and history. The largest language minority in
Russia is Tatar. In Russia 150 million people and only 4 of them can

But why Tatars can't use their own language for school exams?

speak the Tartar language (2.5%). All the people that came from
Ukraine speak Russian.

Because Russia/Soviet Union tried several times to force Ukranians speak Russian.
It was impossible to live in Soviet Union without at least some knowledge of Russian language.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
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Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 25.01.2022 12:41

ak>> very cute when speaking about Croats in Serbia.;-)
DP> You told me that NATO did some terrible things in Yugoslavia
DP> but I don't see your opinion what was the way to stop the war.
DP> Kill as many croats as possible by air strikes and allow serbs
DP> to keep Yugoslavia alive?

It is a mistake to think that Croats killed less people than Serbs. On
the territory of modern Croatia there were big areas with Serbs
population which was either killed or expelled in 1995. Why NATO helped Croats? -- it is easy they were more untirussian, even in WWII. ;-)

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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Hello, alexander!

The situation must be simplified. A half of Ukrainians speaks Russian
at home and consider it as a native language. So the only possible solution is to preserve both the languages and make the country with
areas that speak different languages. Like Switzerland, Canada,
Belgium etc. Such a solution is not the end of the country, but just showing respect to all people living in the country.

Showing respect, would endanger the ukrainian language. Because russian would dominate. In all areas. If we would apply the same logic to the other ex-USSR countries, let's say Estonia, there are less that 1 mln. estonian speakers. Russia has a population of 140 mln. And if we had russian as official language because there were 475.000 russians in Estonia in 1991, then in 20 years estonian language would have died. The same way the majority of irish people today speak english instead of irish.

Ghil.
--- -� �� �� �����⢮� ���﫨��. �������, �� ��?
* Origin: ��ࠢ쨭� ᯨ�⮬ ᮢ���� ������ (2:5030/1081.117)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday January 25 2022 13:29, you wrote to me:

You told me that NATO did some terrible things in Yugoslavia
but I don't see your opinion what was the way to stop the war.
Kill as many croats as possible by air strikes and allow serbs
to keep Yugoslavia alive?

It is a mistake to think that Croats killed less people than Serbs. On

Civil was is always a disaster. And NATO stopped that war. Croatia, Serbia and other former republics now live peacefully.
Wthout NATO this bloodshed was going to continue for many years.

the territory of modern Croatia there were big areas with Serbs
population which was either killed or expelled in 1995. Why NATO

But do you know what happended before the 1995?
And how croats were expelled from Serbian Krajina in 1991?

helped Croats? -- it is easy they were more untirussian, even in WWII.
;-)

All I know is that I can now visit Croatia and Serbia (and I did this 4 years ago), there is no war there.
And average salary in Croatia is higher than in Russia :)

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello Ward,

It could be the other way around! Many russians say that: "there are no
ukrainians, they are a part of russian people" and that "there should be
no Ukraine on the map". Even Putin said it: "Russians and Ukrainians were
one people". Maybe the so called ukrainian language question is just an
excuse and the fact that many russians in Ukraine refuse to speak
ukrainian will be used as a tool to assimilate ukrainian language into
the great russian:

You guys are all idiots.

It won't be long before tanks start rolling in Stcckholm ...

.... and then onwards to Brussels.

--Lee

--
Nobody Beats Our Meat

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
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Hello, Dmitry!

The Ukrainian ultra-nationalists were the only people in that
situation who didn't want the situation would end peacefully (the
peaceful agreement had been already achieved), and the status quo
was preserved.

The whole story started from Ukrainan's will to sign Association
Agreement with EU, something that Putin was not going to accept.

Why didn't Yanukovych sign the agreement in November 2013? Putin had such power over Yanukovych?

Ghil.
--- -� �� �� �����⢮� ���﫨��. �������, �� ��?
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*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Ghil!

Tuesday January 25 2022 10:44, you wrote to me:

The whole story started from Ukrainan's will to sign Association
Agreement with EU, something that Putin was not going to accept.

Why didn't Yanukovych sign the agreement in November 2013? Putin had
such power over Yanukovych?

We know nothing about their personal relations..

Best regards,
dp.

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Hi, Ghil Zvidgzul!
I read your message from 25.01.2022 13:37


ak>> The situation must be simplified. A half of Ukrainians speaks
ak>> Russian at home and consider it as a native language. So the only
ak>> possible solution is to preserve both the languages and make the
ak>> country with areas that speak different languages. Like
ak>> Switzerland, Canada, Belgium etc. Such a solution is not the end
ak>> of the country, but just showing respect to all people living in
ak>> the country.

GZ> Showing respect, would endanger the ukrainian language. Because
GZ> russian would dominate. In all areas.

Compulsion is the most worst scenario in cultivating anything. A human
nature of a free person doesn't tolerate compulsion, and he will do the opposite. And more hate will arise in the society.

In Ukraine there are areas where people speak Ukrainian -- so, hold a popularization campaign (of the Ukrainian language) there. But they
intrude in the areas where the Russian language was used for centuries!

GZ> If we would apply the same
GZ> logic to the other ex-USSR countries, let's say Estonia, there are
GZ> less that 1 mln. estonian speakers. Russia has a population of 140
GZ> mln. And if we had russian as official language because there were
GZ> 475.000 russians in Estonia in 1991, then in 20 years estonian
GZ> language would have died. The same way the majority of irish people
GZ> today speak english instead of irish.

Well, Estonians can make a law that every Estonian should know Estonian.
But why Russian children in Estonia should study in Russian schools in Estonian only? You know perfectly well, that if you have a difficulty in understanding a certain thing reading it in your native language, you
will never understand it better studying it a foreign language. So in
Estonian schools should be lessons of Estonian, but certainly Russian
children there should be taught other subjects in the language of their choice.

Bye, Ghil!
Alexander Koryagin
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Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 25.01.2022 13:32

ak>> the territory of modern Croatia there were big areas with
ak>> Serbs population which was either killed or expelled in
ak>> 1995. Why NATO
DP> But do you know what happended before the 1995?
DP> And how croats were expelled from Serbian Krajina in 1991?

It's useless to count the score now. One thing is obvious -- the ultra- nationalist are to blame here too.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
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*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Wednesday January 26 2022 10:12, you wrote to me:

the territory of modern Croatia there were big areas with
Serbs population which was either killed or expelled in
1995. Why NATO

But do you know what happended before the 1995?
And how croats were expelled from Serbian Krajina in 1991?

It's useless to count the score now. One thing is obvious -- the
ultra- nationalist are to blame here too.

I don't think that communists or Ghaddafi were any much better.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

In Ukraine there are areas where people speak Ukrainian -- so, hold a popularization campaign (of the Ukrainian language) there. But they
intrude in the areas where the Russian language was used for centuries!

The world has been laughing and wondering about Belgium and its historic and on-going language crisis ... we never turned it into a military conflict.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello, alexander!

Showing respect, would endanger the ukrainian language. Because
russian would dominate. In all areas.

Compulsion is the most worst scenario in cultivating anything. A human
nature of a free person doesn't tolerate compulsion, and he will do
the opposite. And more hate will arise in the society.

I will make it more simple: in USSR, if there were 5 estonians and 1 russian in a room, they will all switch to russian because russians didn't need to learn the languages of the republics. If we would make russian official then they would have one more excuse not to learn ukrainian/estonian etc. That would make compulsory for everybody to learn and speak russian. Putin is using russian speakers in ex-soviet republics in his own interest.

In Ukraine there are areas where people speak Ukrainian -- so, hold a popularization campaign (of the Ukrainian language) there. But they intrude in the areas where the Russian language was used for
centuries!

I don't know what centuries are you talking about? The last 100 years after USSR was formed? Or before that? Do you think the Moscow dialect which is the basis of the modern Russian literary language and spread in Russian Empire was spoken in the Wild Plains of Ukraine? This "russian language" you think today was spoken by russians in the past, in fact appeared in 18th century with the modernization reforms of Peter the Great. The other local and peasant's dialects have all but dissapeared except little russian (ukrainian) and white russian (belarusian) because they had their own republics and created their own literary languages.
If I would be russian and knew that russians, ukrainians and belarusians have common roots and spoke the same langauge 1000 years ago or I knew that russian and ukrainian are dialects of the same language then it would be no big deal to switch to ukrainian. Why is Putin speaking of the same origin of russians and ukrainians and at the same time russians in Ukraine despise ukrainian language so much? They had more than 30 years to learn ukrainian!
Ghil.
--- -� �� �� �����⢮� ���﫨��. �������, �� ��?
* Origin: ��ࠢ쨭� ᯨ�⮬ ᮢ���� ������ (2:5030/1081.117)

On 25/01/2022 18:46, Ward Dossche : Ghil Zvidgzul wrote:

Ghil,

After US and UK, Australia is withdrawing embassy staff from Kiev.

Australia will do whatever its US overlords tell it to do.

1/ Any country with balls would "not" withdraw embassy staff. As a staffer
   I'd even refuse to leave (and had I been that Ryanair pilot, I wouldn't
   have landed in Minsk

2/ Australia is thinking about invading New Zealand soon.

Too late! The Kiwis have already invaded Australia.


--
Regards
David

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On 25/01/2022 19:24, Paul Quinn : Ward Dossche wrote:

 WD>> 2/ Australia is thinking about invading New Zealand soon.

No need.  The Australian Constitution already provides for the incorporation of New Zealand into the Commonwealth of Australia.  No hassles, although they do have to agree first... a minor sticking point.

:)

--
Regards
David

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Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 26.01.2022 10:17

ak>>>> the territory of modern Croatia there were big
ak>>>> areas with Serbs population which was either
ak>>>> killed or expelled in 1995. Why NATO
DP>>> But do you know what happended before the 1995?
DP>>> And how croats were expelled from Serbian Krajina in
DP>>> 1991?
ak>> It's useless to count the score now. One thing is obvious
ak>> -- the ultra- nationalists are to blame here too.
DP> I don't think that communists or Ghaddafi were any much better.

Political views of course are another reason for civil wars, but these
wars always move history forward. The main problem are the situations
when some fucking guys clench power with a dead grip, and they refuse to
give up power at any price. A building becomes unreconstructable prison,
and the only way out is to blow it up all and build a new building. I
like how it happen in Romania. ;-)

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
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Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 26.01.2022 11:08

ak>> In Ukraine there are areas where people speak Ukrainian --
ak>> so, hold a popularization campaign (of the Ukrainian
ak>> language) there. But they intrude in the areas where the
ak>> Russian language was used for centuries!
WD> The world has been laughing and wondering about Belgium and its
WD> historic and on-going language crisis ... we never turned it
WD> into a military conflict.

May be it can happen when one ultra-nationalists will want to assimilate another. ;-)

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
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Hi, Ghil Zvidgzul!
I read your message from 26.01.2022 13:44

GZ>>> Showing respect, would endanger the ukrainian language. Because
GZ>>> russian would dominate. In all areas.

ak>> Compulsion is the most worst scenario in cultivating anything. A
ak>> human nature of a free person doesn't tolerate compulsion, and he
ak>> will do the opposite. And more hate will arise in the society.

GZ> I will make it more simple: in USSR, if there were 5 estonians and
GZ> 1 russian in a room, they will all switch to russian because
GZ> russians didn't need to learn the languages of the republics. If we
GZ> would make russian official then they would have one more excuse
GZ> not to learn ukrainian/estonian etc. That would make compulsory for
GZ> everybody to learn and speak russian. Putin is using russian
GZ> speakers in ex-soviet republics in his own interest.

You should see how it has been done in the civilized countries, that's
all. Take for instance the prosperous Switzerland. They don't fuck each
other brains on the account of languages. Another matter is that unltra-nationalists as a rule don't respect people of another nations.

ak>> In Ukraine there are areas where people speak Ukrainian -- so,
ak>> hold a popularization campaign (of the Ukrainian language) there.
ak>> But they intrude in the areas where the Russian language was used
ak>> for centuries!

GZ> I don't know what centuries are you talking about? The last 100
GZ> years after USSR was formed? Or before that? Do you think the
GZ> Moscow dialect which is the basis of the modern Russian literary
GZ> language and spread in Russian Empire was spoken in the Wild Plains
GZ> of Ukraine? This "russian language" you think today was spoken by
GZ> russians in the past, in fact appeared in 18th century with the
GZ> modernization reforms of Peter the Great. The other local and

If you dig so deep you will find that the modern form of English is also young. But the truth is that for 3 hundred years, at least, such areas
as Kharkov region, Dombass, Crimea have been Russian.

GZ> peasant's dialects have all but dissapeared except little russian
GZ> (ukrainian) and white russian (belarusian) because they had their
GZ> own republics and created their own literary languages. If I would
GZ> be russian and knew that russians, ukrainians and belarusians have
GZ> common roots and spoke the same langauge 1000 years ago or I knew
GZ> that russian and ukrainian are dialects of the same language then
GZ> it would be no big deal to switch to ukrainian. Why is Putin
GZ> speaking of the same origin of russians and ukrainians and at the
GZ> same time russians in Ukraine despise ukrainian language so much?
GZ> They had more than 30 years to learn ukrainian!

Just imagine another situation. Suppose that in 2014 Russian
east-ukrainian ultra-nationalists came to power in Kiev, and they
declared Russian to be the only eligible language in a unilateral Russian-speaking Ukraine. Then partisans would fight in western Ukraine,
and we see the reversed situation. ;-)
The matter is not who can learn another language. The matter is in
violation of freedoms and customs of people that formed for centuries. Especially it is dangerous when two nations divide one country.

Bye, Ghil!
Alexander Koryagin
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Hello, alexander!

If you dig so deep you will find that the modern form of English is
also young. But the truth is that for 3 hundred years, at least, such areas as Kharkov region, Dombass, Crimea have been Russian.

3 hundred years ago Kharkov was the center of Sloboda Ukraine, Donbass was on the ukrainian Wild Fields (Dikoye Polye) populated by Zaporozhian Cossacks and Crimea was part of Crimean Khanate. Crimea was incorporated into the Russian Empire in the 1780s.
Not to forget that Kuban Cossacks spoke an Ukrainian dialect used by the Black Sea Cossacks who moved to the Kuban in 1792. The language spoken by them "Balachka" was classified as a dialect of the Little Russian language(ukrainian) in pre-revolutionary Russia and those cossacks - as little russians.
For an english speaker who doesn't know better it could look russian: https://tinyurl.com/7hpm2s2v
But we both know this is ukrainian.
The lands of Don Cossacks and Kuban were depopulated as a result of Soviet famine of 1932-33 (Holodomor).
Ghil.
--- -� �� �� �����⢮� ���﫨��. �������, �� ��?
* Origin: ��ࠢ쨭� ᯨ�⮬ ᮢ���� ������ (2:5030/1081.117)

Hello, alexander!

Thursday January 27 2022 08:45, you wrote to me:

I don't think that communists or Ghaddafi were any much better.

Political views of course are another reason for civil wars, but these
wars always move history forward. The main problem are the situations

I don't see how Ghaddafi's war to create Islamic State in Africa was a way forward. Are you sure about that?

Best regards,
dp.

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Alexander,

The world has been laughing and wondering about Belgium and its
historic and on-going language crisis ... we never turned it
into a military conflict.

May be it can happen when one ultra-nationalists will want to assimilate another. ;-)

What you can notice here is that people don't really give a fuck about that language... it's just a language. Massive floods in July killed a pile of people and destroyed hundreds of homes ... the solidarity from the other language-community was impressive ... more help than the government managed to offer.

What we notice is that the langauge-border is also an economical border with opportunities lacking "on the other side" and it is 'that' which causes the uneasyness. So I'm assuming in Ukraine it is somewhat the same ... it's about opportunities for business, to find jobs, to provide a future for a family ... opportunities which are lacking in one of the regions.

This is something that could be handled by the EU if Ukraine were to join because the EU recognizes special needs of regions separate from what the country-borders are ... there are support programmes especially for that purpose ...

It's not bout Ukraine being governed from Brussels, it remains autonomous but about the opportunity to tap into resources which are available and develop itself ... that is totally different from a system where an individual in a palace in Moscow decides for himself what is good ...

The best tool to eliminate hostility and to prevent wars, is to promote trade and economic processes, that's exactly why the foundation of the EU was laid way back when ... to prevent historical foes Germany and France to launch yet another WW debacle once the dust had settled ... and it seems it worked. No more wars between the EU members ever since its creation.

I'm young enough to remember Soviet troops invading Hungary, Czechoslvakia, Poland ... every time with troops coming from far in the east having no clue what was up and brainwashed thinking they were on a liberation mission or exercises having no idea in which country they were.

If you go to Budapest, there still are the buildings with battle-damage from the 1956 uprising ... Hungarians decided to keep it as a reminder ... I can't believe Russians will want to repeat history and think you can solve a thing by military interventions ... that goes as well for the USA btw.

War is good for business, all kinds of tools are developed to kill people and why buy them if you can't use them, right? Armies are also a way to hide unemployment ... if you're too dumb or too lazy to get a job, go into the armed forces, they provide meals home clothing and a salary .... In the middle ages and after the kings had mercenaries to carry-out their dirty business, that has not changed. That's not the way to go ... if you see the cost that goes into armies like the USA, Russia, China ... that money is more than enough to eradicate hunger and poverty in the whole world, even on Antarctica.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 26 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello Dmitry,

I don't think that communists or Ghaddafi were any much better.

Political views of course are another reason for civil wars, but these
wars always move history forward. The main problem are the situations

I don't see how Ghaddafi's war to create Islamic State in Africa was a way forward. Are you sure about that?

It got him (and his sons) to paradise.

--Lee

--
Nobody Beats Our Meat

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Hi, Ghil Zvidgzul!
I read your message from 27.01.2022 10:14

ak>> If you dig so deep you will find that the modern form of English
ak>> is also young. But the truth is that for 3 hundred years, at
ak>> least, such areas as Kharkov region, Dombass, Crimea have been
ak>> Russian.

GZ> 3 hundred years ago Kharkov was the center of Sloboda Ukraine,
GZ> Donbass was on the ukrainian Wild Fields (Dikoye Polye) populated
GZ> by Zaporozhian Cossacks and Crimea was part of Crimean Khanate.
GZ> Crimea was incorporated into the Russian Empire in the 1780s. Not
GZ> to forget that Kuban Cossacks spoke an Ukrainian dialect used by
GZ> the Black Sea Cossacks who moved to the Kuban in 1792. The language
GZ> spoken by them "Balachka" was classified as a dialect of the Little
GZ> Russian language(ukrainian) in pre-revolutionary Russia and those
GZ> cossacks - as little russians. For an english speaker who doesn't
GZ> know better it could look russian:
GZ> https://tinyurl.com/7hpm2s2v
GZ> But we both know this is ukrainian. The lands of Don Cossacks and
GZ> Kuban were depopulated as a result of Soviet famine of 1932-33
GZ> (Holodomor). Ghil.

Well, let's leave the history alone -- historians often were not
unbiassed, and wrote their works according orders from the current
authority, or according own perverted understanding.

Let's make the situation with the Russian language oppression in Ukraine
still more simpler -- a weak person (nation) can be offended by a strong person. He can force a weak person to make and accept anything
unpleasant, a rape including. But if instead of a weak person there will
be a strong person he will not allow to be offended and fight back and
will make a running nose to the offender.

In other words, if Ukrainian nationlists thought about Russian part of population in Ukraine as a weak person - it was a gross mistake. And
they should learn a wise Chinese saying -- don't start a war if you
unsure you can win. Both parts of Ukraine are strong and they must live peacefully and respect each other.

Bye, Ghil!
Alexander Koryagin
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Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 27.01.2022 15:16

DP>>> I don't think that communists or Ghaddafi were any much
DP>>> better.
ak>> Political views of course are another reason for civil
ak>> wars, but these wars always move history forward. The main
ak>> problem are the situations
DP> I don't see how Ghaddafi's war to create Islamic State in
DP> Africa was a way forward. Are you sure about that?

An Islamic state is not the same to "Islamic terrorist state". I know
that one plane bombing was imputed to Ghaddafi, but IMHO there was no
proper investigation. If we take the late time Ghaddafi's Lybia I can
sure say -- to the world it was the safest Islamic country. And life in
Lybia was not bad as it is now.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
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Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 25.01.2022 13:20

ak>> speak the Tartar language (2.5%). All the people that came
ak>> from Ukraine speak Russian.
DP> Because Russia/Soviet Union tried several times to force
DP> Ukranians speak Russian. It was impossible to live in Soviet
DP> Union without at least some knowledge of Russian language.

Read my answer to Ghil about a strong and a weak persons.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
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Hello, alexander!

Let's make the situation with the Russian language oppression in
Ukraine still more simpler -- a weak person (nation) can be offended
by a strong person. He can force a weak person to make and accept
anything unpleasant, a rape including. But if instead of a weak person there will be a strong person he will not allow to be offended and
fight back and will make a running nose to the offender.

How is russian language opressed? Zelenski, ukrainian president, is speaking russian most of the time, and sometimes he switches to ukrainian on TV. I saw footages on youtube from ukrainian front where ukrainian soldiers were speaking russian and at the same time they want Ukraine to be whole again. Most of the soldiers if they are from eastern part of the country speak russian and at the same time they hate separatists so much. But this is because of russification. And here is a map from 1914 (you can't blame Lenin or bolsheviks for that): https://tinyurl.com/bdeh8azt
You see in Kuban and Donbass they spoke ukrainian (little russian). Ukrainians in the Donbass were affected by the 1932-'33 Holodomor famine and the Russification policy of Joseph Stalin. As most ethnic Ukrainians were rural peasant farmers, the majority of those who died during the famine in the Ukrainian SSR were ethnic Ukrainians.

Ghil.
--- -� �� �� �����⢮� ���﫨��. �������, �� ��?
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*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Friday January 28 2022 09:57, you wrote to me:

I don't see how Ghaddafi's war to create Islamic State in
Africa was a way forward. Are you sure about that?

An Islamic state is not the same to "Islamic terrorist state". I know

Military destruction of several African states to create delusional Great Islamic State of the Sahel - was ok for you?

that one plane bombing was imputed to Ghaddafi, but IMHO there was no

Do you know anything about Islamic Legion which was used by Ghaddafi for that task?

proper investigation. If we take the late time Ghaddafi's Lybia I can
sure say -- to the world it was the safest Islamic country. And life

Do you know that Ghaddafi was even paying to Australian aboriginals to create terrorists cells in Australia?

in Lybia was not bad as it is now.

You cannot rape minds of the whole generations for many years and expect country to became some normal country after that.
I know Lybian guy who still remembers how he was warching public hangings on Lybian TV as a child where people were agonizing hanging on the ropes and Huda Amer (very famous Lybian politican, Benghazi major later in her life under Ghaddafi's rule) was pulling legs of some guy with screams that he deserve that.

Do you still pro-Ghaddafi? May be you also think that Stalin's mass purges were ok for our country?

Best regards,
dp.

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