Re: Re: lossy or FLAC or CD
By: Ogg to All on Sun Aug 02 2020 02:42 pm

I've bought one or two albums in FLAC format. I've seen sites that
sell music in FLAC format, though the selection doesn't seem as
extensive as what's available on CD (which is why I often default to
just buying the CD). In one instance though, the FLAC version of an
album was just $2 more than the MP3 version. It was something like
$12 for MP3s and $14 for FLAC or something.

WHERE did you find FLAC versions at $14? The few places that I've looked at (in the distant past) have always had prices in the $25+ range.

One of my favorite musicians is Mark Knopfler (he was the main guy in the band Dire Straits), and his web site sells his music & other merchandise. I went to one of his concerts several years ago, and they had live recordings of his shows at multiple locations (including my location), and from what I remember, they were about $14 for the FLAC version of the album.

It almost felt a bit high, but I figured that's about what a new
music CD would cost anyway. And why would I want to buy music in a
lossy compressed format? I can convert it to MP3 myself.

Sometimes, a 384Kbps version is "good enough" for me! LOL

People always used to say 128kbit was enough. I've listened to a lot of 128kbit MP3s and they sounded good to me.. The last time I tried a listen, I had a hard time telling the difference between 128kbit and 320kbit. Perhaps if I listened close with headphones, I can tell a difference.

But I totally agree with you. I found it abhorrent that iTunes initially offered only 128Kbps mp3 versions. It only makes sense because their target market were the portable player iPod users. But for me, I preferred to burn to CD so that I could enjoy tunes on a conventional hi- fi system. 128Kbps versions burned to CD sounded like they were being pushed through a saw-tooth filter. The bass was often too boomy.

I've never actually had a high-quality hi-fi music player.. In the past, I've almost alawys listened to music on a portable player like a Walkman or portable CD player with headphones. I had a boom box stereo at home for quite a while, which was a fairly average (but decent) dual-cassette AM/FM stereo. More recently (in the past 12+ years or so), I usually listen to music on a portable MP3 player or in my car. So I'd probably have a hard time telling the difference between 128kbit and a higher-quality audio file, but I'd still prefer to have a lossless copy somewhere..

I was totally jealous of people who boasted acquiring much less lossy ogg vorbis versions of their tunes. But for me, still on dialup at that time, that was a difficult market to participate in.

Yeah, I remember when I first discovered MP3s and I realized I could download a song over dialup in a much more reasonable time than something like a WAV file.. I thought it was really cool.

The backstory how mp3 was first developed and how (and why) it got into the hands of the masses is an interesting story.

I've heard some somewhat differing stories about that. I worked at Intel for a while, and when I was new, during the new employee orientation, someone mentioned that the MP3 codec was first developed by someone or a group at Intel and then they didn't know what to do with it, so they ended up selling the patent to Fraunhofer. But I'm not sure how true that is, since I haven't been able to find anything to back up that story.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: lossy or FLAC or CD
By: Nightfox to Ogg on Sun Aug 02 2020 07:54 pm

People always used to say 128kbit was enough. I've listened to a lot of 128kbit MP3s and they sounded good to me.. The last time I tried a listen, I had a hard time telling the difference between 128kbit and 320kbit. Perhaps if I listened close with headphones, I can tell a difference.

It all depends what you're listening to it through. Back when I was either listening to downloaded music through cheap computer speakers, or piping it through the tape player in a 1980-something used car, 128kbit didn't sound any different than CD.... Once I started putting decent audio equipment in my vehicles and getting decent headphones for use at home and on the go, 128Kbit very quickly showed it's shortcomings. 384 is generally fine though.
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On 08-02-20 14:42, Ogg wrote to All <=-

But I totally agree with you. I found it abhorrent that iTunes
initially offered only 128Kbps mp3 versions. It only makes sense
because their target market were the portable player iPod users. But
for me, I preferred to burn to CD so that I could enjoy tunes on a conventional hi- fi system. 128Kbps versions burned to CD sounded like they were being pushed through a saw-tooth filter. The bass was often
too boomy.

Yes, for a hifi system, you want PCM or lossless compression like FLAC. I'm getting more sensitive to compression artifacts as time goes by too. MP3 sounds "OK", but it's nothing like lossless.

The backstory how mp3 was first developed and how (and why) it got into the hands of the masses is an interesting story.

Now that I would be interested in! :)


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Hello Arelor!

** On Monday 03.08.20 - 08:06, arelor wrote to Nightfox:

I must be going old because I am less able to tell the difference with
the years. I should get a horse trained to pick the difference as an experiment, though.

Or dogs? I understand you have a few of those available! <G>

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Hello Arelor!

** On Monday 03.08.20 - 20:01, arelor wrote to Ogg:

I must be going old because I am less able to tell the difference
with the years. I should get a horse trained to pick the difference
as an experiment, though.

Or dogs? I understand you have a few of those available! <G>

Yes. But horses have better hearing.

Crap. You made me look up equine audiology!

Their eyesight is pretty darn good too, and better than a dog's.

Today, depending on the recording, I can't tell much diff between 192Kbps
and 320Kbps versions when listening to them direct with modest speakers.
But there is still a noticeable difference after they have been recorded
onto CD. Instead, I try to find FLAC versions when I absolutely need to
hear the music at home. In the car, the mp3 versions on disc are good enough.

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Re: Re: lossy or FLAC or CD
By: Ogg to Arelor on Mon Aug 03 2020 10:17 pm

Today, depending on the recording, I can't tell much diff between 192Kbps and 320Kbps versions when listening to them direct with modest speakers. But there is still a noticeable difference after they have been recorded onto CD.

I'm not sure how burning them to CD would make a difference in how they sound. I assume you mean burn them as an audio CD? Whether you're playing the MP3s or burning them as an audio CD, either way, the PC would have to decompress the MP3, and either way, I'd think the data would be the same whether you're playing the MP3 directly or burning its audio to a CD. I'd think the CD should sound the same as the MP3 (but not any better, naturally).

Nightfox

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Hello Vk3jed!

** On Monday 03.08.20 - 06:05, vk3jed wrote to Ogg:

Yes, for a hifi system, you want PCM or lossless compression like
FLAC. I'm getting more sensitive to compression artifacts as time
goes by too. MP3 sounds "OK", but it's nothing like lossless.

That's funny. The sensitivity is supposed to diminish with age. It's like you're aging in reverse! LOL

The backstory how mp3 was first developed and how (and why) it got into Og>> the hands of the masses is an interesting story.

Now that I would be interested in! :)

You can read a fairly long excerpt (Introduction and Chapter 1) here.

https://www.edelweiss.plus/?sku=0143109340&g=4400

The amazon version of Look-Inside is a bit longer into Chapter 2.

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On 08-13-20 01:22, Ogg wrote to Vk3jed <=-

Yes, for a hifi system, you want PCM or lossless compression like
FLAC. I'm getting more sensitive to compression artifacts as time
goes by too. MP3 sounds "OK", but it's nothing like lossless.

That's funny. The sensitivity is supposed to diminish with age. It's
like you're aging in reverse! LOL

Haha, when one has a brain that accumulates data in a statistical way and refines the stats continuously, strange things happen, especially when it's been running for over 62 years! :D

The backstory how mp3 was first developed and how (and why) it got into
the hands of the masses is an interesting story.

Now that I would be interested in! :)

You can read a fairly long excerpt (Introduction and Chapter 1) here.

https://www.edelweiss.plus/?sku=0143109340&g=4400

I'll check it out. :)


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On 08-13-20 20:14, Vk3jed wrote to Ogg <=-

Haha, when one has a brain that accumulates data in a statistical way
and refines the stats continuously, strange things happen, especially
when it's been running for over 62 years! :D

Arrrgh typos - 52, not 62. :D


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Hello Vk3jed!

** On Thursday 13.08.20 - 23:52, vk3jed wrote to Ogg:

Haha, when one has a brain that accumulates data in a statistical way
and refines the stats continuously, strange things happen, especially
when it's been running for over 62 years! :D

Arrrgh typos - 52, not 62. :D

Ya.. I wondered about that. Or.. you decided to age 10 years in a few weeks. LOL

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On 08-14-20 00:25, Ogg wrote to All <=-

Arrrgh typos - 52, not 62. :D

Ya.. I wondered about that. Or.. you decided to age 10 years in a few weeks. LOL

It seems only my fingers have middle age spread. :D

And are you replying via NNTP? I noticed your replay was address to "All". :)


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Hello Vk3jed!

** On Friday 14.08.20 - 04:59, vk3jed wrote to Ogg:

On 08-14-20 00:25, Ogg wrote to All <=-

Arrrgh typos - 52, not 62. :D

Ya.. I wondered about that. Or.. you decided to age 10 years in a few Og>> weeks. LOL

It seems only my fingers have middle age spread. :D

And are you replying via NNTP? I noticed your replay was address to "All". :)

I am accessing dovenet via nntp, yes.

I am not sure what triggered the "to All". Usually, that only happens
when I create a brand new message. Does this one appear normal?

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Hello Vk3jed!

** On Thursday 13.08.20 - 06:14, vk3jed wrote to Ogg:

The backstory how mp3 was first developed and how (and why) it got into Og>>> the hands of the masses is an interesting story.

Now that I would be interested in! :)

You can read a fairly long excerpt (Introduction and Chapter 1) here.

https://www.edelweiss.plus/?sku=0143109340&g=4400

I'll check it out. :)

I liked the way the book interweaved between the pirate's POV, the researcher's POV, and the recording industry's POV. It practically read
like a suspense story how the actions of one group affected the other.

Chime in with your thoughts after you get a chance to read the whole
story.

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Re: Re: lossy or FLAC or CD
By: Ogg to Vk3jed on Fri Aug 14 2020 09:12 pm

And are you replying via NNTP? I noticed your replay was address
to "All". :)

I am accessing dovenet via nntp, yes.

I am not sure what triggered the "to All". Usually, that only happens when I create a brand new message. Does this one appear normal?

I've noticed most of your messages are addressed to "All".. I've seen some of your messages written in reply to something I said, but addressed to "All", so they didn't come up in my new-to-me scan.

Nightfox

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On 08-14-20 21:12, Ogg wrote to Vk3jed <=-

And are you replying via NNTP? I noticed your replay was address to "All". :)

I am accessing dovenet via nntp, yes.

Ahh, OK

I am not sure what triggered the "to All". Usually, that only happens when I create a brand new message. Does this one appear normal?

Yeah this one's fine. The attribution mart of the NNTP server must have gone screwy.


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On 08-14-20 21:30, Ogg wrote to Vk3jed <=-

I liked the way the book interweaved between the pirate's POV, the researcher's POV, and the recording industry's POV. It practically
read like a suspense story how the actions of one group affected the other.

Chime in with your thoughts after you get a chance to read the whole story.

Will do, it is a hard book to put down. :)


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