Re: Re: Web Server
By: Weatherman to Nightfox on Sun May 14 2023 01:55:00

I was just wondering if there was an established threshold at which web V4 on Synchronet became more "civilized" in its behavior. Don't want to throw a bunch of RAM in this thing just to find out that the cpu clock speed is below what is needed or that I could have avoided the mess just by adjusting a swappiness parameter.

Old message, my my biggeest suggestion would be to use an SSD or NVME drive if you can. You don't necessarily need to make a huge investment in ram, the VM I'm running SBBS on via Docker has 4GB, and most of the time isn't even using 1/4 of that. The disk scanning for messages can be slow on some systems/drives. Also, if you're on Linux, you can check your settings for open file handles, etc. There's usually advice around this for "Linux File Server" as a search term, even though your application is different.


--
Michael J. Ryan
+o roughneckbbs.com
tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

---
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* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Re: Re: Web Server
By: Digital Man to Weatherman on Sun May 14 2023 16:10:37

know of any particular reason why ecWebv4 would be any slower than the legacy/runemaster web interface, but I'm sure it's fixable if we (or more specifically, echicken) had details (e.g. log messages, specific reproduction steps, etc.).

Likely the way message threads are displayed, vs a single message... probably a full scan of message base looking for downstream replies. Part of why I suggested an SSD. May be faster, for a modern browser on a modern computer to just load the entire message base's headers on the client browser and load the bodies on individual requests.


--
Michael J. Ryan
+o roughneckbbs.com
tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

---
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* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

On 16 Jun 2023, Tracker1 said the following...

Likely the way message threads are displayed, vs a single message... probably a full scan of message base looking for downstream replies.

i duno, i tried vert.synchro.net via http and the initial load, clicking the forum link, clicking an area, and then a thread.. all those clicks take almost exactly 10 seconds

you'd think it'd be more performant than that. does ssjs have a profiler to see where it's spending all that time? there's not a sleep(10000) in there
somewhere right? :-)

... THE fIRST sTEP iS tO tAKE oFF tHE cAPS lOCK

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
# Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Re: Re: Web Server
By: fusion to Tracker1 on Fri Jun 16 2023 09:33 pm

On 16 Jun 2023, Tracker1 said the following...

Likely the way message threads are displayed, vs a single message... probably a full scan of message base looking for downstream replies.

i duno, i tried vert.synchro.net via http and the initial load, clicking the forum link, clicking an area, and then a thread.. all those clicks take almost exactly 10 seconds

you'd think it'd be more performant than that. does ssjs have a profiler to see where it's spending all that time? there's not a sleep(10000) in there somewhere right? :-)

If you want a better example, use web.synchro.net instead. Same ecWeb (and Synchronet) code, but different OS (vert is running on Win10 while web.synchro.net is running on Linux).
--
digital man (rob)

Synchronet "Real Fact" #100:
You can leave a voicemail for The TechDorks (Stephen and I) at 951-523-7535 Norco, CA WX: 73.7øF, 63.0% humidity, 7 mph ESE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

On 16 Jun 2023, Digital Man said the following...

If you want a better example, use web.synchro.net instead. Same ecWeb
(and Synchronet) code, but different OS (vert is running on Win10 while web.synchro.net is running on Linux).

sheesh the difference is insane.. that can't just be windows can it?

good to know tho.. sometimes i read there on the phone. or tried to at least

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
# Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Re: Re: Web Server
By: fusion to Digital Man on Sat Jun 17 2023 12:02 am

sheesh the difference is insane.. th
can't just be windows can it?

Windows might just need more resources.
My BBS is running on Linux and the web
interface is slow like vert (vs web.)
but it only has 1.5gb ram.

---
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Re: Re: Web Server
By: fusion to Digital Man on Sat Jun 17 2023 12:02 am

On 16 Jun 2023, Digital Man said the following...

If you want a better example, use web.synchro.net instead. Same ecWeb (and Synchronet) code, but different OS (vert is running on Win10 while web.synchro.net is running on Linux).

sheesh the difference is insane.. that can't just be windows can it?

Synchronet for *nix has always been significantly faster than the Windows builds, but those are 2 different computers and the Linux system is a bit more modern. But yeah, it's mostly Windows at fault, I believe.
--
digital man (rob)

This Is Spinal Tap quote #19:
Oh then, maybe it's not green. Anyway this is what I sleep in sometimes.
Norco, CA WX: 84.2øF, 45.0% humidity, 6 mph SE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Tracker1 wrote to Weatherman <=-

Re: Re: Web Server
By: Weatherman to Nightfox on Sun May 14 2023 01:55:00

I was just wondering if there was an established threshold at which web V4 on Synchronet became more "civilized" in its behavior. Don't want to throw a bunch of RAM in this thing just to find out that the cpu clock speed is below what is needed or that I could have avoided the mess just by adjusting a swappiness parameter.

Old message, my my biggeest suggestion would be to use an SSD or NVME drive if you can. You don't necessarily need to make a huge investment
in ram, the VM I'm running SBBS on via Docker has 4GB, and most of the time isn't even using 1/4 of that. The disk scanning for messages can
be slow on some systems/drives. Also, if you're on Linux, you can
check your settings for open file handles, etc. There's usually advice around this for "Linux File Server" as a search term, even though your application is different.

Thanks for the food for thought. I have a bit of a bad taste for SSDs in my mouth, having recently been involved in a project to pre-emptivly replace some 13,000 SSDs in a data center because there was a possibilty of them failing prematurely. Call me an old fogey (no... go ahead, I AM an old fogey) but I like spinning drives. The M.2 drive in this computer is constantly an issue of frustration and while the SSD seems stable, it seems like a bit of a hassle to reinvest in storage on a machine that's barely using it as it is.

I don't know if the bottle neck is in disk access anyway. When I do experience the pause in the web server there's no disk activity detected on the BBS machine, it's more like a "hold on, I'm thinking about it" kind of thing. Regardless, I switched from the webv4 to the old web server and performance is peppy and dependable. This leads me to your suggestion regarding open file handles. That could definitely be the issue that I'm hitting and deserves some more investigation. I DO seem to recall reading something of that nature for a different symptom and actually running a fix for it on the BBS in recent weeks - and since I HAVE done that, maybe revisiting webv4 is warranted.


... "42? 7 and a half million years and all you can come up with is 42?!"
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
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Re: Re: Web Server
By: Phigan to fusion on Sat Jun 17 2023 11:40:46

Windows might just need more resources. My BBS is running on Linux and the web interface is slow like vert (vs web.) but it only has 1.5gb ram.

Yeah, windows (even Lite spins) really needs at least 4gb to run halfway decent.


--
Michael J. Ryan
+o roughneckbbs.com
tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

---
þ Synchronet þ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)