Re: Message Timezones
By: Dream Master to Digital Man on Thu Mar 31 2022 10:47 am

Good day, Sir!

Just a thought about messages and timezones...

Whenever I read through QWK and FTN-based messages, I see each message tagged with a timezone or offset.

Unfortunately, not all messages are.

This is great, yet I also feel it isn't
necessary. Instead, why can't we inquire with the user during sign-up and within the Default User Config.

I've considered it. Users do move around however, sometimes between time zones. The BBS usually stays in one time zone.

If the standard was to timestamp messagse in UTC, then at least for message creation, it would be a moot point (what zone the BBS or the author was in), but unfortunately, that's not how existing BBS message networks work. The date/time stamps of messages are generally expected to be in the local time of the BBS.

Asking the user their timezone, utilizing a similar manner to that of RHEL and Debian-based /usr/share/zoneinfo/zone1970.tab could help populate the request from the user. Then, when displaying messages, all messages are displayed based upon the offset and not the original source message.

Just a thought...

A message reader could already do that in theory: just display a message's timestamp in UTC or convert to the user's preferred zone on the fly.

I kind of like seeing the originating timezone and the local time myself however. <shrug>
--
digital man (rob)

Rush quote #8:
One likes to believe in the freedom of music...
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Re: Message Timezones
By: Digital Man to Dream Master on Thu Mar 31 2022 12:48 pm

I kind of like seeing the originating timezone and the local time myself however. <shrug> --

I prefer when it didn't matter what time it was, because the transfers were measured in days.


- Andre

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Re: Message Timezones
By: Martin Rayburn to Digital Man on Thu Mar 31 2022 03:53 pm

Re: Message Timezones
By: Digital Man to Dream Master on Thu Mar 31 2022 12:48:52

I've considered it. Users do move around however, sometimes between time zones. The BBS usually stays in one time zone.

Just a thought...

What if the time zone was derived from the location of the user's IP address?

It's a possibility.
--
digital man (rob)

This Is Spinal Tap quote #32:
Derek Smalls: [A jog?] We don't have time for that.
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On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 15:53:07 -0500
"Martin Rayburn" <martin.rayburn@VERT/ANSUN> wrote:

Re: Message Timezones
By: Digital Man to Dream Master on Thu Mar 31 2022 12:48:52

I've considered it. Users do move around however, sometimes
between time zones. The BBS usually stays in one time zone.

Just a thought...

What if the time zone was derived from the location of the user's IP
address?

Unreliable, especially if the user is using the web based telnet
interface or using dialup via a modem.
--
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telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23
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On 03-31-22 12:48, Digital Man wrote to Dream Master <=-

I've considered it. Users do move around however, sometimes between
time zones. The BBS usually stays in one time zone.

I'm a case in point. I'm currently 1 hour behind my BBS, but because this laptop is still configured for my home time zone, timestamps on this message are also an hour ahead of where I am. :D

If the standard was to timestamp messagse in UTC, then at least for message creation, it would be a moot point (what zone the BBS or the author was in), but unfortunately, that's not how existing BBS message networks work. The date/time stamps of messages are generally expected
to be in the local time of the BBS.

Yeah that has been the standard, rather than letting each end work out its own offset.

Asking the user their timezone, utilizing a similar manner to that of RHEL and Debian-based /usr/share/zoneinfo/zone1970.tab could help populate the request from the user. Then, when displaying messages, all messages are displayed based upon the offset and not the original source message.

Just a thought...

A message reader could already do that in theory: just display a
message's timestamp in UTC or convert to the user's preferred zone on
the fly.

Assuming every link in the chain was set correctly, otherwise you'll see apparent feats of time travil! :D

I kind of like seeing the originating timezone and the local time
myself however. <shrug> --
digital man (rob)

It is an interesting curiosity, but harder to work out transit or response times. :)


... What if I told you I'm here to set you free?
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On 03-31-22 15:53, Martin Rayburn wrote to Digital Man <=-

@VIA: VERT/ANSUN
Re: Message Timezones
By: Digital Man to Dream Master on Thu Mar 31 2022 12:48:52

I've considered it. Users do move around however, sometimes between time zones. The BBS usually stays in one time zone.

Just a thought...

What if the time zone was derived from the location of the user's IP address?

What time zone is 10.43.21.14 in? ;) For technical reasons, I access my BBS over a ZeroTier virtual LAN when I'm away from home. That is my actual IP that the BBS sees. ;) And I can be anywhere in the world with that IP. Currently 1300km away from home and an hour behind in Brisbane.


... Old archers never die, they just bow and quiver.
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On 03-31-22 17:46, Nelgin wrote to All <=-

Unreliable, especially if the user is using the web based telnet
interface or using dialup via a modem.

Or a VPN like I do. :)


... A sharp tongue and a dull mind are usually found in the same head!
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interface or using dialup via a modem.

hahah!

how about if monkeys flew out my ass.

Using dialup is for those rare eccentric (re: crazy) people that are WAY TOO nostalgic. The days of dial-up sucked, but for a long time it was the only thing going.
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think I'm trying to compare BBSes and our users to that of business
e-mail and messaging systems (Teams, Slack, Exchange, etc.) where each
is configured to the user's timezone and the BBS is configured to
whatever timezone it is sourced at. Even if we configure everything to UTC, user offsets could still be a "thing".

Excellent point concerning this already being done by business email servers. --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
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Re: Re: Message Timezones
By: Nightfox to Dream Master on Fri Apr 01 2022 09:44:35

Really? Why would users move around? If our users are connecting
into our

People move for the usual reasons, like maybe they got a job somewhere else, or maybe they want to move somewhere with a lower cost of living, or to be closer to family, etc., etc...

Sometimes I move around just to prevent blood clots, bed sores, and muscle atrophy. None of this movement has brought me to a different time zone recently, but I did leave my neighbourhood for about an hour a few months ago.

---
echicken
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Re: Re: Message Timezones
By: SYS64738 to MRO on Fri Apr 01 2022 12:52 pm

interface or using dialup via a modem.

hahah!

how about if monkeys flew out my ass.

Using dialup is for those rare eccentric (re: crazy) people that are WAY TOO nostalgic. The days of dial-up sucked, but for a long time it was the only thing going.

a guy was nice enough to provide me with a dialup gateway for several years.

1 or 2 people used it. and it was only used a few times.
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Re: Re: Message Timezones
By: echicken to Nightfox on Fri Apr 01 2022 06:29 pm

Sometimes I move around just to prevent blood clots, bed sores, and muscle atrophy. None of this movement has brought me to a different time zone recently, but I did leave my neighbourhood for about an hour a few months ago.

let me know when your 600lb life episode airs.
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El 1/4/22 a las 09:52, SYS64738 escribió:

MR> > interface or using dialup via a modem.
MR>
MR> hahah!
MR>
MR> how about if monkeys flew out my ass.

Using dialup is for those rare eccentric (re: crazy) people that are WAY TOO nostalgic. The days of dial-up sucked, but for a long time it was the only thing going.

dialup age was amazing...

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Re: Re: Message Timezones
By: Digital Man to Ragnarok on Fri Apr 01 2022 05:56 pm

dialup age was amazing...

At the time, it was amazing. In hindsight or comparison to today's broadband Internet? Yeah, not so much... :-)

True, not so much now, but I always thought it was pretty cool that the technology was developed to transfer digital computer data over analog phone lines. When the phone systems were first developed, they had no way of knowing that people would use them to transfer computer data over them many years later.

Nightfox

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dialup age was amazing...

At the time, it was amazing. In hindsight or comparison to today's broadband Internet? Yeah, not so much... :-)

True dat! I wore out dial-up service back in the 80's and loved it...because it was the only way for the average person to get onto the local boards. But these guys that want to put together a dial-up bbs on purpose--that's a special kind of nostalgia that I hope to never experience.

I was one of those obnoxious Commodore 64 kids. A real die hard "C=64-ever" guy. These days, I'm on some of the C=64 Facebook groups, and I just don't
get why these dudes put so much time and effort into restoring old C=64 equipment. I mean we have C=64 emulators that are nearly 99.99999% identical that we can do so much more with and these cats are fiddling with these
relics. What's amazing about that crowd though is that there are still those that are writing new software for it (games mostly) and most it's not half
bad!
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On 3/31/22 13:53, Martin Rayburn wrote:

Just a thought...

What if the time zone was derived from the location of the user's IP address?

You could do that... however most geoip services aren't the most
accurate, not to mention that many are paid services, or otherwise
commercial. Sometimes having a free tier, but unreliable overall.

Date/Time rules get particularly tricky as the rules often change. Such
as date for daylight savings and zones/locations that don't have
daylight savings. It's a bit of a mess in practice.

It would be nice if most messages were tagged with their originating
offset, then it's easy enough to convert to localized/client time. I've
been pushing for over a decade to have all services and communications
that I touch save/transfer in UTC, where a local origin is stored with locality for any date/time not in UTC (airline flights, etc).
--
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
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Re: Re: Message Timezones
By: Ragnarok to SYS64738 on Fri Apr 01 2022 08:28 pm

El 1/4/22 a las 09:52, SYS64738 escribi­:

MR> > interface or using dialup via a modem.
MR>
MR> hahah!
MR>
MR> how about if monkeys flew out my ass.

Using dialup is for those rare eccentric (re: crazy) people that are WAY TOO nostalgic. The days of dial-up sucked, but for a long time it was the only thing going.

dialup age was amazing...

it was active so it was fun that way. but the technology sucked.
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Re: Re: Message Timezones
By: Digital Man to Ragnarok on Fri Apr 01 2022 05:56 pm

Using dialup is for those rare eccentric (re: crazy) people that are WAY TOO nostalgic. The days of dial-up sucked, but for a long time it was the only thing going.

dialup age was amazing...

At the time, it was amazing. In hindsight or comparison to today's

broadband
Internet? Yeah, not so much... :-)

i can't believe i'm downloading 50mb in seconds on my phone.
and it could be half an hour or longer for 1mb on dialup.

and that's why we're all getting cancer or modified dna.

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Re: Re: Message Timezones
By: Nightfox to Digital Man on Fri Apr 01 2022 07:45 pm

Re: Re: Message Timezones
By: Digital Man to Ragnarok on Fri Apr 01 2022 05:56 pm

dialup age was amazing...

At the time, it was amazing. In hindsight or comparison to today's broadband Internet? Yeah, not so much... :-)

True, not so much now, but I always thought it was pretty cool that the tech m to transfer computer data over them many years later.

Nightfox

Nto that much different than saving data to cassette tape or sending morse
code

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