• USB device crashes Pi4/RasPiOS

    From bob prohaska@3:770/3 to All on Sun Jan 7 22:42:16 2024
    From time to time my Pi 4 running

    Linux raspberrypi 6.1.21-v8+ #1642 SMP PREEMPT
    Mon Apr 3 17:24:16 BST 2023 aarch64 GNU/Linux

    crashes when a USB device is plugged into it.
    The Pi4 boots from a usb3 mechanical disk.

    Usually the culprit
    is a storage device, but an FT232-based usb-serial adapter did it
    also. The first symptom is an unresponsive menu bar and report about
    I/O error on the command line. The palsy grows over a few minutes
    as the mouse stops tracking. By that time there's nothing to do
    but cycle power.

    Plugged into a Windows 10 box the usb-serial adapter is recognized
    just fine. I haven't been able to find a terminal emulator for Win
    10 to test it further, but I suspect it's ok.

    This behavior is relatively new, sometime in the last six months
    or so. I don't remember it in the distant past. If I plug in a
    camera it's recognized without difficulty.

    Anybody else seen this sort of behavior or have a hint what to do?

    Thanks for reading,

    bob prohaska

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Chris Schram@3:770/3 to bob prohaska on Mon Jan 8 01:51:20 2024
    On 2024-01-07, bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:
    From time to time my Pi 4 running

    Linux raspberrypi 6.1.21-v8+ #1642 SMP PREEMPT
    Mon Apr 3 17:24:16 BST 2023 aarch64 GNU/Linux

    crashes when a USB device is plugged into it.
    The Pi4 boots from a usb3 mechanical disk.

    What I am about to describe may be an unrelated phenomenon:

    I run a Pi4b in the Official Case with the Official Fan. [I don't
    recommend that fan to anyone. It does not get much airflow unless the
    case is propped open.]

    The operation of the fan tends to build up a static charge throughout
    the case's environment. When a USB device is plugged in, there is often
    a brief static discharge, which can have an undesirable effect on the
    Pi. I might get a screen glitch or a hang or a crash or a reboot,

    I alleviate this problem by using an old unpowered Radio Shack USB hub.
    This minimizes static buildup, and keeps any potential discharge some
    distance from the Pi's circuit board.

    --
    ATTN Google Groups users: I filter out your posts and will not see them. chrispam1@me.com is an infrequently monitored address. Email may get lost.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Theo@3:770/3 to bob prohaska on Mon Jan 8 12:48:14 2024
    bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:
    From time to time my Pi 4 running

    Linux raspberrypi 6.1.21-v8+ #1642 SMP PREEMPT
    Mon Apr 3 17:24:16 BST 2023 aarch64 GNU/Linux

    crashes when a USB device is plugged into it.
    The Pi4 boots from a usb3 mechanical disk.

    Usually the culprit
    is a storage device, but an FT232-based usb-serial adapter did it
    also. The first symptom is an unresponsive menu bar and report about
    I/O error on the command line. The palsy grows over a few minutes
    as the mouse stops tracking. By that time there's nothing to do
    but cycle power.

    What does:

    sudo dmesg

    say immediately after you plug it in? You can print the last 30 lines with:

    sudo dmesg | tail -30

    It seems like the USB serial adapter wedges the USB subsystem, which is problematic given your root filesystem is also on USB storage. The storage stops responding, and over time programs get increasingly unhappy that their storage is not functioning.

    Another thing to try is to plug the serial adapter into a USB2 port, which
    is a different controller on the Pi4 from the USB storage. Maybe that won't break the storage?

    Theo

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Michael Schwingen@3:770/3 to bob prohaska on Mon Jan 8 19:55:32 2024
    On 2024-01-07, bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:
    From time to time my Pi 4 running

    Linux raspberrypi 6.1.21-v8+ #1642 SMP PREEMPT
    Mon Apr 3 17:24:16 BST 2023 aarch64 GNU/Linux

    crashes when a USB device is plugged into it.
    The Pi4 boots from a usb3 mechanical disk.

    So either all USB is blocked, or the USB disk with the root FS stops responding.

    This might be a power issue. Mechanical disks pull a lot of power, and
    unless it is a 1.8" drive this is often more than the 500mA allowed on
    USB2.0 ports.

    Make sure the power supply for the Pi can handle the (peak) load without voltage drops. Aging power supplies and cables/connectors with bad contact
    can cause slowly increasing problems.

    You might try putting a self-powered USB hub (with its own power supply) between the Pi and the disk and see if that changes anything.

    cu
    Michael
    --
    Some people have no respect of age unless it is bottled.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From bob prohaska@3:770/3 to Theo on Tue Jan 9 01:50:52 2024
    Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
    What does:

    sudo dmesg

    say immediately after you plug it in? You can print the last 30 lines with:

    sudo dmesg | tail -30

    It says "I/O error", or words to that effect, in any
    shell prompt. Enter produces a CR/LF combo and repeats
    the prompt, but any typing provokes the I/O error message.

    It seems like the USB serial adapter wedges the USB subsystem, which is problematic given your root filesystem is also on USB storage. The storage stops responding, and over time programs get increasingly unhappy that their storage is not functioning.


    Yes, that's my thinking too.

    Another thing to try is to plug the serial adapter into a USB2 port, which
    is a different controller on the Pi4 from the USB storage. Maybe that won't break the storage?

    That's what I did, sorry if it wasn't clear. There is a keyboard on
    USB2, so there's still potential for interaction and maybe the
    "I/O error" is in reference to the keyboard input. Likewise,
    the mouse hangs off a hub in the keyboard, so clicking on an
    icon produces a similar effect..

    You've brought up something that never crossed my mind. I've been
    thinking "disk i/o", maybe it's "keyboard i/o" being reported.

    Either way, it seems like a bug, except that few see it.
    Strange.

    Thanks for writing

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From bob prohaska@3:770/3 to Chris Schram on Tue Jan 9 01:40:50 2024
    Chris Schram <chrispam1@me.com> wrote:
    On 2024-01-07, bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:
    From time to time my Pi 4 running

    Linux raspberrypi 6.1.21-v8+ #1642 SMP PREEMPT
    Mon Apr 3 17:24:16 BST 2023 aarch64 GNU/Linux

    crashes when a USB device is plugged into it.
    The Pi4 boots from a usb3 mechanical disk.

    The operation of the fan tends to build up a static charge throughout
    the case's environment. When a USB device is plugged in, there is often
    a brief static discharge, which can have an undesirable effect on the
    Pi. I might get a screen glitch or a hang or a crash or a reboot,

    Maybe. My Pi4 lives in a CanaKit (or similar) case with a little
    5v fan running on 3.3 volts. There's certainly not enough zap to
    make a noise, I've not been watching the display at the moment
    of plug-in.

    I alleviate this problem by using an old unpowered Radio Shack USB hub.
    This minimizes static buildup, and keeps any potential discharge some distance from the Pi's circuit board.

    It also lets the usb subsystem recognize the hub as a separate
    object, apart from the thing you actually want to connect. I.E.,
    it enumerates the hub, then enumerates the device. not both at once.
    Dunno if that matters, but I'd think not.

    You've raised an interesting point. I've noticed that if I put a
    microSD card in a USB adapter and plug it into the pi, the pi
    crashes. If I plug the adapter into the Pi and then plug the
    card into the adapter, it works fine. Hubs are not the same as
    adapters, but there's a whiff of similarity.

    Thanks for writing!

    bob prohaska

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Computer Nerd Kev@3:770/3 to bob prohaska on Tue Jan 9 13:37:56 2024
    bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:
    crashes when a USB device is plugged into it.
    The Pi4 boots from a usb3 mechanical disk.

    Usually the culprit
    is a storage device, but an FT232-based usb-serial adapter did it
    also. The first symptom is an unresponsive menu bar and report about
    I/O error on the command line. The palsy grows over a few minutes
    as the mouse stops tracking. By that time there's nothing to do
    but cycle power.
    [snip]
    This behavior is relatively new, sometime in the last six months
    or so. I don't remember it in the distant past. If I plug in a
    camera it's recognized without difficulty.

    Anybody else seen this sort of behavior or have a hint what to do?

    I've found that my RPi Zeros tend to reboot when a USB device is
    plugged in. I presume it's a power issue to do with the wimpy 600mA
    USB plugpacks that I power them from, but as I mainly just have a
    wireless keyboard/mouse receiver pluged in all the time it doesn't
    worry me much. It could also be that the tracks on the PCB are too
    narrow and dropping too much voltage due to resistance during the
    surge when a device is connected, in which case you might want a
    PSU that outputs nearer to the maximum safe input voltage for the
    Pi (5.25V? 5.5V? I'm not sure if they've specified this).

    The camera likely is powered by its own battery and only uses USB
    for I/O, so with that working every time it definately suggests a
    power issue.

    --
    __ __
    #_ < |\| |< _# | Note: I won't see posts made from Google Groups |

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From 57r.1283@3:770/3 to Chris Schram on Mon Jan 8 23:03:28 2024
    On 1/7/24 8:51 PM, Chris Schram wrote:
    On 2024-01-07, bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:
    From time to time my Pi 4 running

    Linux raspberrypi 6.1.21-v8+ #1642 SMP PREEMPT
    Mon Apr 3 17:24:16 BST 2023 aarch64 GNU/Linux

    crashes when a USB device is plugged into it.
    The Pi4 boots from a usb3 mechanical disk.

    What I am about to describe may be an unrelated phenomenon:

    I run a Pi4b in the Official Case with the Official Fan. [I don't
    recommend that fan to anyone. It does not get much airflow unless the
    case is propped open.]

    The operation of the fan tends to build up a static charge throughout
    the case's environment. When a USB device is plugged in, there is often
    a brief static discharge, which can have an undesirable effect on the
    Pi. I might get a screen glitch or a hang or a crash or a reboot,

    I alleviate this problem by using an old unpowered Radio Shack USB hub.
    This minimizes static buildup, and keeps any potential discharge some distance from the Pi's circuit board.

    Buy a pack of bubble-gum ... the foil/paper wrapper for
    each stick can be teased into its component parts. The
    ultra-thin foil is slightly sticky. Stick it all over the
    inside of the case (we used to stick 'em to school desks
    back in the day) by rubbing it on with a bit of hard wood
    or something of similar characteristics. A pencil worked
    for the school desks.

    Weave in a fine wire that touches both the ground plane
    of the Pi and the foil in the case. Doesn't have to be a
    super-good soldered connection.

    If you use WiFi then maybe leave the upper 1/3rd of the
    case un-foiled around where the WiFi antenna thingie is.
    An all-metal case would work for the static, but will
    block a lot of the WiFi signal.

    This should safely drain-off static charge.

    Apparently you live in a VERY dry area - always a prob
    for electronics. Hell, lived in a US western town high
    in the mountains for awhile. In the winter you could
    easily draw a 4-inch spark off a door-knob just by
    walking across a carpet first. Guess that's about a
    200,000 volts or so. Actually HURT ! You learned to
    lead with a knuckle ....

    Oh yea, Pi-compatible fans ... they mostly ARE crap.
    Lucky if you can go 6-months before the bearing goes
    and they start making noise. OTOH, they only cost a
    couple of dollars ........

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Ahem A Rivet's Shot@3:770/3 to 57r.1283@etq5.net on Tue Jan 9 07:07:34 2024
    On Mon, 8 Jan 2024 23:03:28 -0500
    "57r.1283" <57r.1283@etq5.net> wrote:

    Buy a pack of bubble-gum ... the foil/paper wrapper for
    each stick can be teased into its component parts. The
    ultra-thin foil is slightly sticky.

    Alternatively buy a roll of copper or aluminium tape, both are
    easily available.

    --
    Steve O'Hara-Smith
    Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
    Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
    Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to All on Tue Jan 9 09:07:34 2024
    On 09/01/2024 04:03, 57r.1283 wrote:
    Buy a pack of bubble-gum ... the foil/paper wrapper for
      each stick can be teased into its component parts. The
      ultra-thin foil is slightly sticky. Stick it all over the
      inside of the case (we used to stick 'em to school desks
      back in the day) by rubbing it on with a bit of hard wood
      or something of similar characteristics. A pencil worked
      for the school desks.

      Weave in a fine wire that touches both the ground plane
      of the Pi and the foil in the case. Doesn't have to be a
      super-good soldered connection.

      If you use WiFi then maybe leave the upper 1/3rd of the
      case un-foiled around where the WiFi antenna thingie is.
      An all-metal case would work for the static, but will
      block a lot of the WiFi signal.

      This should safely drain-off static charge.

    You can buy adhesive backed copper foil, made for sheilding electric
    guitars and similar quite cheaply - and its a cinch to solder to it to
    earth it


    --
    “A leader is best When people barely know he exists. Of a good leader,
    who talks little,When his work is done, his aim fulfilled,They will say,
    “We did this ourselves.”

    ― Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Joerg Walther@3:770/3 to All on Tue Jan 9 11:09:18 2024
    57r.1283 wrote:

    Oh yea, Pi-compatible fans ... they mostly ARE crap.

    That's why I only use solid body aluminium cases with my Pi3s and Pi4s,
    no fan needed. Don't know if this is still possible with the Pi5,
    though.

    -jw-

    --

    And now for something completely different...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Charlie Gibbs@3:770/3 to 57r.1283@etq5.net on Tue Jan 9 20:54:04 2024
    On 2024-01-09, 57r.1283 <57r.1283@etq5.net> wrote:

    Apparently you live in a VERY dry area - always a prob
    for electronics. Hell, lived in a US western town high
    in the mountains for awhile. In the winter you could
    easily draw a 4-inch spark off a door-knob just by
    walking across a carpet first. Guess that's about a
    200,000 volts or so. Actually HURT ! You learned to
    lead with a knuckle ....

    I would tightly grip a key and draw the spark off it.

    --
    /~\ Charlie Gibbs | The Internet is like a big city:
    \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | it has plenty of bright lights and
    X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | excitement, but also dark alleys
    / \ if you read it the right way. | down which the unwary get mugged.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Robert Riches@3:770/3 to Charlie Gibbs on Wed Jan 10 03:57:14 2024
    On 2024-01-09, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
    On 2024-01-09, 57r.1283 <57r.1283@etq5.net> wrote:

    Apparently you live in a VERY dry area - always a prob
    for electronics. Hell, lived in a US western town high
    in the mountains for awhile. In the winter you could
    easily draw a 4-inch spark off a door-knob just by
    walking across a carpet first. Guess that's about a
    200,000 volts or so. Actually HURT ! You learned to
    lead with a knuckle ....

    I would tightly grip a key and draw the spark off it.

    Or, if you can find an old pen body with a metal upper half and a
    plastic lower half, put a NE2 neon light bulb poking out of the
    top end. Connect one side of the bulb to the metal upper body
    half. Through a current-limiting series resistor, connect the
    other end to a metal protrusion from the tip of the pen. If I
    remember correctly, under the right conditions the charge will
    run the bulb for a couple of seconds. (It was ~50 years ago when
    I did that.)

    In a pinch, a ring or metal watchband can also do the job.

    HTH

    --
    Robert Riches
    spamtrap42@jacob21819.net
    (Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From 57r.1283@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Wed Jan 10 01:34:16 2024
    On 1/9/24 4:07 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 09/01/2024 04:03, 57r.1283 wrote:
    Buy a pack of bubble-gum ... the foil/paper wrapper for
       each stick can be teased into its component parts. The
       ultra-thin foil is slightly sticky. Stick it all over the
       inside of the case (we used to stick 'em to school desks
       back in the day) by rubbing it on with a bit of hard wood
       or something of similar characteristics. A pencil worked
       for the school desks.

       Weave in a fine wire that touches both the ground plane
       of the Pi and the foil in the case. Doesn't have to be a
       super-good soldered connection.

       If you use WiFi then maybe leave the upper 1/3rd of the
       case un-foiled around where the WiFi antenna thingie is.
       An all-metal case would work for the static, but will
       block a lot of the WiFi signal.

       This should safely drain-off static charge.

    You can buy adhesive backed copper foil, made for sheilding electric
    guitars and similar quite cheaply - and its a cinch to solder to it to
    earth it


    Yep ... but WHERE ? Never seen it on a shelf in the USA.
    Is it more common in the UK perhaps ? For what use ?

    However aluminum/SS tape is more readily found in retail
    locations. Problem is that you can't solder to it. However
    even a "spring" connection will serve. Conductive paint
    can be had too, but only from electronics suppliers.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From 57r.1283@3:770/3 to Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Wed Jan 10 01:29:18 2024
    On 1/9/24 2:07 AM, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Mon, 8 Jan 2024 23:03:28 -0500
    "57r.1283" <57r.1283@etq5.net> wrote:

    Buy a pack of bubble-gum ... the foil/paper wrapper for
    each stick can be teased into its component parts. The
    ultra-thin foil is slightly sticky.

    Alternatively buy a roll of copper or aluminium tape, both are
    easily available.


    Aluminum and/or stainless-steel tape is often sold at
    automotive parts stores. Not gonna say what the nickname
    for it may be. Copper tape ... never seen it in the USA
    in retail stores (can be had from electronics suppliers
    like Mouser or Digi-Key).

    Either would be fairly effective for the OPs problem,
    but the bubble-gum solution is More Fun ! :-)

    There is also conductive PAINT ...

    https://3dinsider.com/conductive-paint/

    ... which should also drain-off pesky static.

    In any case, the OP seems to live in an EXTREMELY
    dry environment. Surprised he doesn't lose devices
    all the time.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Ahem A Rivet's Shot@3:770/3 to 57r.1283@etq5.net on Wed Jan 10 07:08:20 2024
    On Wed, 10 Jan 2024 01:34:17 -0500
    "57r.1283" <57r.1283@etq5.net> wrote:

    Yep ... but WHERE ?

    Amazon (easiest), a good electronics parts retailer (OK they're hens teeth these days) or a good garden centre.

    --
    Steve O'Hara-Smith
    Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
    Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
    Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Ahem A Rivet's Shot@3:770/3 to 57r.1283@etq5.net on Wed Jan 10 07:05:20 2024
    On Wed, 10 Jan 2024 01:29:18 -0500
    "57r.1283" <57r.1283@etq5.net> wrote:

    On 1/9/24 2:07 AM, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Mon, 8 Jan 2024 23:03:28 -0500

    Alternatively buy a roll of copper or aluminium tape, both are
    easily available.


    Aluminum and/or stainless-steel tape is often sold at

    Aluminium tape is sold in builder's merchants for taping insulation boards for air tightness (I used several rolls of it insulating my house),
    it also sometimes gets used to seal air duct joins.

    automotive parts stores. Not gonna say what the nickname
    for it may be. Copper tape ... never seen it in the USA
    in retail stores (can be had from electronics suppliers
    like Mouser or Digi-Key).

    It can sometimes be found in garden centres as gardeners use it for slug/snail repellent, it is also used for making stained glass and
    repairing electrical toys like Scalextric track. Copper tape comes in a very wide variety of widths unlike aluminium tape, I have 6mm, 10mm and 50mm
    rolls to hand.

    --
    Steve O'Hara-Smith
    Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
    Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
    Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Theo@3:770/3 to Michael Schwingen on Wed Jan 10 11:00:38 2024
    Michael Schwingen <news-1513678000@discworld.dascon.de> wrote:
    On 2024-01-07, bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:
    From time to time my Pi 4 running

    Linux raspberrypi 6.1.21-v8+ #1642 SMP PREEMPT
    Mon Apr 3 17:24:16 BST 2023 aarch64 GNU/Linux

    crashes when a USB device is plugged into it.
    The Pi4 boots from a usb3 mechanical disk.

    So either all USB is blocked, or the USB disk with the root FS stops responding.

    This might be a power issue. Mechanical disks pull a lot of power, and unless it is a 1.8" drive this is often more than the 500mA allowed on
    USB2.0 ports.

    Make sure the power supply for the Pi can handle the (peak) load without voltage drops. Aging power supplies and cables/connectors with bad contact can cause slowly increasing problems.

    You might try putting a self-powered USB hub (with its own power supply) between the Pi and the disk and see if that changes anything.

    This is quite possible. Especially if the widget you plug in has a big decoupling capacitor, it could take a current spike which causes the supply voltage to drop out momentarily and could upset further communications.

    One thing to try would be to put the widget behind a powered hub. Plug the widget into the hub, make sure the hub power is on, then plug the hub into
    the Pi. That way there will be no increased power loading on the Pi as the widget is plugged in.

    Theo

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Andy Burns@3:770/3 to All on Wed Jan 10 11:35:44 2024
    NTdyLjEyODMgd3JvdGU6DQoNCj4gVGhlIE5hdHVyYWwgUGhpbG9zb3BoZXIgd3JvdGU6DQo+ DQo+PiBZb3UgY2FuIGJ1eSBhZGhlc2l2ZSBiYWNrZWQgY29wcGVyIGZvaWwsIG1hZGUgZm9y IHNoZWlsZGluZyBlbGVjdHJpYyANCj4+IGd1aXRhcnMgYW5kIHNpbWlsYXIgcXVpdGUgY2hl YXBseSAtIGFuZCBpdHMgYSBjaW5jaCB0byBzb2xkZXIgdG8gaXQgdG8gDQo+PiBlYXJ0aCBp dA0KPiANCj4gIMKgIFllcCAuLi4gYnV0IFdIRVJFID8gTmV2ZXIgc2VlbiBpdCBvbiBhIHNo ZWxmIGluIHRoZSBVU0EuDQo+ICDCoCBJcyBpdCBtb3JlIGNvbW1vbiBpbiB0aGUgVUsgcGVy aGFwcyA/IA0KDQpQcm9iYWJseSBub3Qgb24gc2hlbHZlcyBoZXJlLCBub3dhZGF5cyBmb3Ig YW55dGhpbmcgdXNlZnVsIHlvdSB0ZW5kIHRvIA0KaGF2ZSB0byBidXkgb25saW5lDQoNCj4g Rm9yIHdoYXQgdXNlID8NClNsdWcgcmVwZWxsZW50LCBzdGFpbmVkIGdsYXNzIHdvcmssIEVN SSBzaGllbGRpbmcsIGxpbmluZyBndWl0YXIgY2F2aXR5IC4uLg0K

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to All on Wed Jan 10 11:54:04 2024
    On 10/01/2024 06:34, 57r.1283 wrote:
    On 1/9/24 4:07 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 09/01/2024 04:03, 57r.1283 wrote:
    Buy a pack of bubble-gum ... the foil/paper wrapper for
       each stick can be teased into its component parts. The
       ultra-thin foil is slightly sticky. Stick it all over the
       inside of the case (we used to stick 'em to school desks
       back in the day) by rubbing it on with a bit of hard wood
       or something of similar characteristics. A pencil worked
       for the school desks.

       Weave in a fine wire that touches both the ground plane
       of the Pi and the foil in the case. Doesn't have to be a
       super-good soldered connection.

       If you use WiFi then maybe leave the upper 1/3rd of the
       case un-foiled around where the WiFi antenna thingie is.
       An all-metal case would work for the static, but will
       block a lot of the WiFi signal.

       This should safely drain-off static charge.

    You can buy adhesive backed copper foil, made for sheilding electric
    guitars and similar quite cheaply - and its a cinch to solder to it to
    earth it


      Yep ... but WHERE ? Never seen it on a shelf in the USA.
      Is it more common in the UK perhaps ? For what use ?

    Shielding electric guitars. I got mine from amazon. Here in the UK we
    don't have 'shelves' except in online suppliers warehouse, and food supermarkets.

    https://www.amazon.com/Quality-Conductive-Adhesive-Shielding-Flashing/dp/B0CGF45N88/

    Aluminium foil sticky tape is used to vapour seal foil covered
    insulation so a builders merchant will stock it

    https://www.amazon.com/BOMEI-Aluminum-SilverTape-Insulation-Temperature/dp/B0C4Y2YSPB/


    You *can* solder to aluminium,. You just need the right flux, And
    breathing apparatus!

    The one I used is UK specific. Made by Carrs. keep a window open though.


    --
    “Progress is precisely that which rules and regulations did not foresee,”

    – Ludwig von Mises

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Wed Jan 10 11:56:48 2024
    On 10/01/2024 07:08, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Wed, 10 Jan 2024 01:34:17 -0500
    "57r.1283" <57r.1283@etq5.net> wrote:

    Yep ... but WHERE ?

    Amazon (easiest), a good electronics parts retailer (OK they're hens teeth these days) or a good garden centre.

    Or a Lutiers supplier.

    https://www.stewmac.com/electronics/shielding/conductive-copper-tape

    --
    “But what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an hypothesis!”

    Mary Wollstonecraft

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn_Lundin?=@3:770/3 to All on Thu Jan 11 16:37:06 2024
    On 2024-01-10 07:29, 57r.1283 wrote:

      In any case, the OP seems to live in an EXTREMELY
      dry environment. Surprised he doesn't lose devices
      all the time.

    A cold winter day makes much spark here. (Sweden)
    Like -10C or below


    Fabric softener helps, but below some temperatures, even that does not
    do much to help.


    --
    /Björn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From 57r.1283@3:770/3 to Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Thu Jan 11 19:01:50 2024
    On 1/10/24 2:05 AM, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Wed, 10 Jan 2024 01:29:18 -0500
    "57r.1283" <57r.1283@etq5.net> wrote:

    On 1/9/24 2:07 AM, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Mon, 8 Jan 2024 23:03:28 -0500

    Alternatively buy a roll of copper or aluminium tape, both are
    easily available.


    Aluminum and/or stainless-steel tape is often sold at

    Aluminium tape is sold in builder's merchants for taping insulation boards for air tightness (I used several rolls of it insulating my house),
    it also sometimes gets used to seal air duct joins.

    automotive parts stores. Not gonna say what the nickname
    for it may be. Copper tape ... never seen it in the USA
    in retail stores (can be had from electronics suppliers
    like Mouser or Digi-Key).

    It can sometimes be found in garden centres as gardeners use it for slug/snail repellent, it is also used for making stained glass and
    repairing electrical toys like Scalextric track. Copper tape comes in a very wide variety of widths unlike aluminium tape, I have 6mm, 10mm and 50mm
    rolls to hand.


    I have a roll of 10cm ... but got that from an electronics surplus
    place in Orlando.

    However that's the only place I've ever seen it on a shelf in
    the USA.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From 57r.1283@3:770/3 to All on Thu Jan 11 19:09:20 2024
    On 1/11/24 10:37 AM, Björn Lundin wrote:
    On 2024-01-10 07:29, 57r.1283 wrote:

       In any case, the OP seems to live in an EXTREMELY
       dry environment. Surprised he doesn't lose devices
       all the time.

    A cold winter day makes much spark here. (Sweden)
    Like -10C or below


    Fabric softener helps, but below some temperatures, even that does not
    do much to help.

    I could get 4" (100mm) sparks off round door-knobs
    during the winter in a high Rocky Mountain town.
    Were strong enough to HURT. You quickly learned
    to reach with a knuckle or key. My guess, given
    the rounded surface, is 200,000 volts. That's
    enough to trash modern electronics for sure
    unless very well shielded and smartly designed.

    Hmm ... I wonder how long cell phones last in
    places like that ? :-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From 68g.1499@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Sat Jan 27 22:33:14 2024
    On 1/10/24 6:54 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 10/01/2024 06:34, 57r.1283 wrote:
    On 1/9/24 4:07 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 09/01/2024 04:03, 57r.1283 wrote:
    Buy a pack of bubble-gum ... the foil/paper wrapper for
       each stick can be teased into its component parts. The
       ultra-thin foil is slightly sticky. Stick it all over the
       inside of the case (we used to stick 'em to school desks
       back in the day) by rubbing it on with a bit of hard wood
       or something of similar characteristics. A pencil worked
       for the school desks.

       Weave in a fine wire that touches both the ground plane
       of the Pi and the foil in the case. Doesn't have to be a
       super-good soldered connection.

       If you use WiFi then maybe leave the upper 1/3rd of the
       case un-foiled around where the WiFi antenna thingie is.
       An all-metal case would work for the static, but will
       block a lot of the WiFi signal.

       This should safely drain-off static charge.

    You can buy adhesive backed copper foil, made for sheilding electric
    guitars and similar quite cheaply - and its a cinch to solder to it
    to earth it


       Yep ... but WHERE ? Never seen it on a shelf in the USA.
       Is it more common in the UK perhaps ? For what use ?

    Shielding electric guitars. I got mine from amazon. Here in the UK we
    don't have 'shelves' except in online suppliers warehouse, and food supermarkets.

    https://www.amazon.com/Quality-Conductive-Adhesive-Shielding-Flashing/dp/B0CGF45N88/


    Aluminium foil sticky tape is used to vapour seal foil covered
    insulation so a builders merchant will stock it

    https://www.amazon.com/BOMEI-Aluminum-SilverTape-Insulation-Temperature/dp/B0C4Y2YSPB/



    You *can* solder to aluminium,. You just need the right flux, And
    breathing apparatus!

    Um, yea ... the flux CAN be nasty :-)

    The one I used is UK specific. Made by Carrs. keep a window open though.


    For those in the USA, try Skycraft Salvage in Orlando Florida.

    https://skycraftsurplus.com/

    Whatever it is, they DO have it on a shelf somewhere :-)

    SOME you can buy online. MOST is just in infinite bins
    you have to pick through. I usually spend hundreds every
    time I get by there. And yes, they DO have thin copper
    tape, I bought a roll of 10mm awhile back.

    Note recent physical address change to bigger digs from
    their old Fairbanks Av location. New place is in a strip
    mall about a mile N.W. from there.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Bryan@3:770/3 to All on Sun Jan 28 08:41:18 2024


    Aluminium foil sticky tape is used to vapour seal foil covered
    insulation so a builders merchant will stock it


    You can sometime also find stainless steel tape in the form of
    automotive trim and MacGuyver rust-out repair material. If all else
    fails, automotive customizers can be a good place to get things that can
    be adapted for other uses.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From 68g.1499@3:770/3 to Bryan on Sun Jan 28 23:05:20 2024
    On 1/28/24 8:41 AM, Bryan wrote:



    Aluminium foil sticky tape is used to vapour seal foil covered
    insulation so a builders merchant will stock it


    You can sometime also find stainless steel tape in the form of
    automotive trim and MacGuyver rust-out repair material. If all else
    fails, automotive customizers can be a good place to get things that can
    be adapted for other uses.

    SS tape has one extra advantage, as it does not form a
    thick surface oxidation layer like aluminum you can
    employ 'friction contacts' more effectively, eliminating
    the need for hard soldered connections. This should serve
    for RF shielding.

    BUT, you can get copper tape from Mouser or DigiKey or
    Amazon - so ...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Bryan@3:770/3 to All on Mon Jan 29 20:06:52 2024
    On 1/28/2024 23:05, 68g.1499 wrote:
    On 1/28/24 8:41 AM, Bryan wrote:



    Aluminium foil sticky tape is used to vapour seal foil covered
    insulation so a builders merchant will stock it


    You can sometime also find stainless steel tape in the form of
    automotive trim and MacGuyver rust-out repair material. If all else
    fails, automotive customizers can be a good place to get things that
    can be adapted for other uses.

      SS tape has one extra advantage, as it does not form a
      thick surface oxidation layer like aluminum you can
      employ 'friction contacts' more effectively, eliminating
      the need for hard soldered connections. This should serve
      for RF shielding.

      BUT, you can get copper tape from Mouser or DigiKey or
      Amazon - so ...

    Yes. I'd rather use copper. But when you need it right now because SHTF,
    it's nice to have options.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From 68g.1499@3:770/3 to Bryan on Wed Jan 31 00:14:28 2024
    On 1/29/24 8:06 PM, Bryan wrote:
    On 1/28/2024 23:05, 68g.1499 wrote:
    On 1/28/24 8:41 AM, Bryan wrote:



    Aluminium foil sticky tape is used to vapour seal foil covered
    insulation so a builders merchant will stock it


    You can sometime also find stainless steel tape in the form of
    automotive trim and MacGuyver rust-out repair material. If all else
    fails, automotive customizers can be a good place to get things that
    can be adapted for other uses.

       SS tape has one extra advantage, as it does not form a
       thick surface oxidation layer like aluminum you can
       employ 'friction contacts' more effectively, eliminating
       the need for hard soldered connections. This should serve
       for RF shielding.

       BUT, you can get copper tape from Mouser or DigiKey or
       Amazon - so ...

    Yes. I'd rather use copper. But when you need it right now because SHTF,
    it's nice to have options.


    Yea, I know ... when you need it you need it and don't
    want to wait days/weeks.

    But, for a number of reasons, 'retail' ain't what it
    used to be. The more 'popular' items get shelf priority
    and other stuff disappears ("You can buy it from our
    online store !")

    Someone suggested buying copper tape from my local
    garden store - except the last one anywhere near me
    went out of biz around Covid-time.

    ANYway ... Amazon delivers pretty quick (quicker if
    you want to $$$). McMaster/Carr is also very quick,
    but may not do 'retail' in your area. Grainger is
    quick, and does do retail, but adds a big premium
    if you're not an official 'wholesaler' with the right
    numbers to present.

    Oh, do you have a "Northern Tools" store anywhere
    near ? They've got a surprising volume of "weird
    shit" on their shelves.

    I've got enough copper tape for any anticipated need.
    But what DON'T I have ? I'll find out come the next
    project ... it's always something ... :-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)