Aaron Thomas wrote to Mike Powell <=-

Democrats in my state made some changes pertaining to who can buy a
gun, but I didn't hear anyone complaining about it. I think we're more riled up about other stuff.

Standard Elitist Play: Distract everyone to focus on Topic 1, while you quietly pass legislation on Topic 2 so no one will notice or complain.


... I'd love to, but my favorite commercial is on TV.
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Democrats in my state made some changes pertaining to who can buy a gun, but I didn't hear anyone complaining about it. I think we're mor riled up about other stuff.

Standard Elitist Play: Distract everyone to focus on Topic 1, while you quietly pass legislation on Topic 2 so no one will notice or complain.

The media doesn't provide much coverage of things that happen in the New York government. We woke up one day to discover that bail was reformed and that the jails were literally being emptied as a result. And we never saw it coming until it was too late. The state's legislature did it all while we were sleeping, in one night.

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More so than Republicans, supposedly. Chicago is a Democrat party stronghold and they have strict restrictions. I think your own home state is/was considering bans and restrictions.

Democrats in my state made some changes pertaining to who can buy a gun, but I
didn't hear anyone complaining about it. I think we're more riled up about other stuff.

Maybe some of the other stuff was a clever ruse to draw attention away from their anti-2A actions.

I saw that one. You cannot tell whether or not it was before or after the shooting. Since there are no shots being fired, I would assume it was after but who knows.

I will revisit this thread with a link to the video when I find it..
But I thought it showed the gunman alive and on top of the roof, followed by a
woman shouting to officers that there's "someone on the roof," (after we just saw him alive and on the roof.)

There have now been credible reports that local police were indeed aware,
but may not have contacted Secret Service quick enough. The local chief,
or union rep (I forget which), has been defending their actions.

IB Joe mentioned a rumor that the gunman was confronted on the roof by a local policeman. Although the report didn't mention "on the roof," it did say that
a LEO did confront the gunman and then retreated.

The report also said that the current head of the Secret Service was taking responsibility for what happened, but would not step down.

IIRC, that report was from channel 10 in Phoenix and can be found on youtube.

There were definately some breakdowns in communication, and there were definately some breakdowns in the Secret Service's initial scouting of the site. IMHO, the counter-snipers did their job and killed the guy, and the
ones on the ground mostly did their job in securing the President. IMHO,
they should not have allowed him to stop and address the crowd between the podium and the vehicle, just in case there was another gunman, but I also
don't think they really could have stopped Trump from doing so.

If so many rallygoers saw a gunman beforehand, why weren't any of them yelling at Trump to get off stage? Or were they in on it, too?

In the video, it's just a lady who saw the guy on the roof, but this lady was close to the gunman and far away from the president.

There is something odd about that. It sounds like there were some people "wandering around" either just inside of, or just outside of, the security perimeter that were able to see the gunman. I wonder why they were allowed
to be there if they really were not a part of the rally?

If I were in charge of security I would want the area between the rally and
the edge of the perimeter to be empty as I believe it would make it easier
for security to keep track of who is doing what, but that is just me. I have *no idea* what the official protocol is in that regard.


* SLMR 2.1a * ...a host of holy horrors to direct our aimless dance...
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The media doesn't provide much coverage of things that happen in the New York >government. We woke up one day to discover that bail was reformed and that the >jails were literally being emptied as a result. And we never saw it coming >until it was too late. The state's legislature did it all while we were >sleeping, in one night.

Chances are that your state legislature has a website where you can keep
track of what bills are proposed, up for vote, etc. You local media will mention some of them during newscasts but other news, like about what Trump
has said or done today, etc., will push more boring stories about the legislature out of the news cycle.


* SLMR 2.1a * Gimme three chili dogs and a malt.
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IB Joe mentioned a rumor that the gunman was confronted on the roof by a local policeman. Although the report didn't mention "on the roof," it
did say that a LEO did confront the gunman and then retreated.

The report also said that the current head of the Secret Service was taking responsibility for what happened, but would not step down.

So far, it looks like a mistake was made by local police (whoever those officers near the shooter are.) But the narrative coming from Washington is that "it's the head of the secret service's fault." Somebody is definitely creating a distraction here, but I can't tell who it is for sure.

In the video, it's just a lady who saw the guy on the roof, but this lad close to the gunman and far away from the president.

There is something odd about that. It sounds like there were some people "wandering around" either just inside of, or just outside of, the
security perimeter that were able to see the gunman. I wonder why they were allowed to be there if they really were not a part of the rally?

Yea obviously the people who were anywhere near the shooter were not people who were screened.

I'm not a security expert either, but I agree with you that unchecked spectators, 300 yards away or whatever, is a bad idea. They should stick with indoor rallies.

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until it was too late. The state's legislature did it all while we were >sleeping, in one night.

Chances are that your state legislature has a website where you can keep track of what bills are proposed, up for vote, etc. You local media will mention some of them during newscasts but other news, like about what Trump has said or done today, etc., will push more boring stories about the legislature out of the news cycle.

There is, but I never bothered reading (for example) the state senate's website until after all the chaos began. But even if that information was available, people are still right to be angry. We're sheeple; we rely on the media to tell us everything. They didn't tell us that "Today there's a slight chance of rain, and tomorrow morning the jails will be empty."

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Aaron Thomas wrote to Dr. What <=-

Standard Elitist Play: Distract everyone to focus on Topic 1, while you quietly pass legislation on Topic 2 so no one will notice or complain.

The media doesn't provide much coverage of things that happen in the
New York government. We woke up one day to discover that bail was
reformed and that the jails were literally being emptied as a result.
And we never saw it coming until it was too late. The state's
legislature did it all while we were sleeping, in one night.

And not in an election year. All on purpose.


... I'd love to, but my uncle escaped again.
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The report also said that the current head of the Secret Service was taking responsibility for what happened, but would not step down.

So far, it looks like a mistake was made by local police (whoever those officers near the shooter are.) But the narrative coming from Washington is that "it's the head of the secret service's fault." Somebody is definitely creating a distraction here, but I can't tell who it is for sure.

It is now out that the Secret Service knew about the shooter and his whereabouts (but maybe didn't see a gun) for ~20 minutes prior to when he
took his shots.

I believe that seems like too long a time. However, I also believe that if Crooks had turned out to be a Trump supporter who was only trying to get a better view, and the Secret Service shot him dead without seeing a gun,
there'd be people arguing here, the internet, and everywhere that the Secret Service did something horrible and "murdered a Trump supporter."

15 or more years ago, I don't think that'd been much of an issue... people
had more sense back then... but it damn sure is now.

One other thing we *don't* know... if the Secret Service knew of a possible threat and told Trump's team about it, which they could have (they
certainly had *time* to), who is to say that it was not the Trump Team's decision to bring Trump out anyway.

Yea obviously the people who were anywhere near the shooter were not people wh
were screened.

I'm not a security expert either, but I agree with you that unchecked spectators, 300 yards away or whatever, is a bad idea. They should stick with indoor rallies.

They could have just been hot and looking for shade but I believe someone should have been there to herd them back into the rally area, or out of
the area, whichever the appropriate case.


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