• Ideas to make Fidonet Great Again

    From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to MATT MUNSON on Sun Jun 21 16:06:06 2020
    Hello MATT,

    1. I am thinking a traffic report should be avaliable about the
    message base activity on the backbone might be an idea.

    There is a list of areas and traffic in those areas posted in the fido gazette every week.

    The STATS area also has stats posted from various systems so you can see what areas are avtive and just how active they are.

    2. I also think it will have to take marketing from various groups
    that are chased away from places like Facebook and Reddit to come back
    to the bbsing world.

    I don't think the BBS has much of a future. I have always enjoyed BBSing myself and prefer a telnet or ssh session but folks today don't need an interface like that and just don't understand what it is or what it can do for them.

    I think if we had a client/server model of some sort that folks could easily connect to with the app of their choice we would see more usage.

    My lady friend for example has a desktop and laptop of her own. She has not used either since she got her tablet. She simply installs the app she wants and away she goes. She does not know or care what FTN is. She just wants to install her app and go.

    We don't currently have a client/server model or the apps that folks might install but we could do that if we wanted to and if we had folks with those skills on board. We would need a plan to create all that and make it as simple as installing.

    I recon that's a fairly tall order. :)

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to MATT MUNSON on Wed Jul 1 23:02:00 2020
    Hello MATT!

    ** On Sunday 21.06.20 - 09:38, MATT MUNSON wrote to All:

    1. I am thinking a traffic report should be avaliable about the message base activity on the backbone might be an idea.

    There are a couple of better-than-nothing solutions:

    [1] The stats report in the weekly FidoGazette newsletter.

    [2] The display listings at select Synchornet-based BBSes that use one of Synchronet's display options:

    http://bbs.tdod.org/msgs/subs.ssjs?msg_grp=Fidonet

    http://sectiononebbs.com/msgs/subs.ssjs?msg_grp=Fidonet

    https://sestar.synchro.net/msgs/subs.ssjs?msg_grp=Fidonet

    http://1stchoicecore.co.nz/msgs/subs.ssjs?msg_grp=Fidonet%20Message


    That is the same tool/method I describe at:

    http://kolico.ca/fidonet/echos/future4fido/

    The closest to real-time we have is solution [2].

    But each BBS may only carry a reduced selection of echos, and therefore
    not represent the entire backbone.

    It would be very nice if there was a reporting mechanism that took
    advantage of the 24/7 connectivity of today's BBSes over the internet so
    that the user had a near real-time report to look at in one place.


    2. I also think it will have to take marketing from various groups that are chased away from places like Facebook and Reddit to come back to the bbsing world.

    People need to know that Fidonet and its echomail system exists. The
    system could be viable alternative to traditional web forums, and
    newsgroups for people concerned about tracking, ads, and uncontrolled
    spam.

    Sysops have never been very good at marketing themselves beyond posting
    into select ad echos. Promotion outside takes more time and actually
    talking to people! <gasp> LOL

    But sysops and users can always put in a plug for the Fidonet/BBS world wherever they meet online. Even a simple reminder/link in an email
    signature could help spread the awareness.

    I was working on adapting an old laptop to operate as a BBS. For my convenience, I used VNC to access the laptop from a more comfortable
    desktop station. Meanwhile, the laptop was facing the public at my workplace. It drew a lot of attention as I navigated through various BBS menus of other systems, ansi art, etc. During idle time, I'd just leave
    some ansi art on screen, or a random bbs login. All that generated a lot
    of interest from the public and from younger people who had never seen anything like that before. From that, the conversions spanned from BBSing
    in general to messaging in Fidonet and othernets.

    From a messaging perspective, I've steered people to Synchro's BBSlist.
    It is a nice presentation of the services that each BBS offers and the message networks that they participate in - all in one glance. But sadly,
    in takes extra convoluted steps to research what the echomail activity is like in each network.

    Also, it is too small to use from a smartphone or a tablet. A responsive design to support the first-time user would be good.

    The telnetbbsguide.com is responsive. A S)earch for "fidonet" yields many results.


    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.45
    * Origin: The future is not what it used to be. (2:221/1.58)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Alan Ianson on Wed Jul 1 23:42:00 2020
    Hello Alan!

    ** On Sunday 21.06.20 - 16:06, Alan Ianson wrote to MATT MUNSON:

    The STATS area also has stats posted from various systems so you can
    see what areas are avtive and just how active they are.

    But those charts are a drab to read, and basically require an existing connection to even use. Something readily available and quick to access
    for the www-user would be good.


    2. I also think it will have to take marketing from various groups
    that are chased away from places like Facebook and Reddit to come
    back to the bbsing world.

    I don't think the BBS has much of a future. I have always enjoyed
    BBSing myself and prefer a telnet or ssh session but folks today
    don't need an interface like that and just don't understand what it
    is or what it can do for them.

    There is probably a very small demographic of users who would be
    entertained and patient with using the extra layer of a telnet client to reach a BBS.

    I still like a good keyboard-based menu every now and then. But new people expect something they can tap.

    The traditional BBS interface is not likely to win over young people.


    I think if we had a client/server model of some sort that folks could easily connect to with the app of their choice we would see more
    usage.

    It would be very nice if BBSes and their services (eg. echomail) could
    adapt to the new devices like smartphones and tablets that more and more people seem to prefer using.

    I'm not convinced that a laptop has lost favour in use. A telnet client to reach a traditional BBS could still be viable that way for many years.


    My lady friend for example has a desktop and laptop of her own. She has not used either since she got her tablet. She simply installs the app she wants and away she goes. She does not know or care what FTN is. She just wants to install her app and go.

    "BBSing ..but not for tablets" does not scream much of a future.


    We don't currently have a client/server model or the apps that folks
    might install but we could do that if we wanted to and if we had folks with those skills on board. We would need a plan to create all that and make it as simple as installing.

    I recon that's a fairly tall order. :)

    It would be a tall order to have something that presents most of the
    features of a BBS that way.

    But messaging (echomail) might be one of the first features of a BBS to implement with an app.

    Apple seems to offer a free design tools to build apps.
    Android has something called App Inventor.

    Maybe a good first step is a prototype so that the UI requirements could
    be fleshed out.


    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.45
    * Origin: The future is not what it used to be. (2:221/1.58)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Alan Ianson on Thu Jul 2 00:00:00 2020
    Hello Alan!

    ** On Monday 22.06.20 - 01:02, Alan Ianson wrote to MATT MUNSON:

    Perhaps maybe us running the forums as newsgroups and have a easy way for
    people to sign up for the nntp server might be the idea.

    What I am thinking is something designed for what we want to do, FTN netmail and echomail in an easy to install and use format for folks who just want to chat and not need to learn what FTN is and how to set it up. Does that make any sense?

    Jamnntp sites offer a modest solution.

    A newsgroup config only requires a small handful of things not much more complicated than signing up with other services that people are already familiar "registering" with.

    [1] server name
    [2] port
    [3] user name, email address

    Done.

    I remember when simply accessing a link that begins with nntp:// would automatically launch the local program associated with that service. If it was a first-time access, the program would walk the user step by step to configure the account.

    Maybe a simple first step would be an app that has preprogrammed Jamnntp supported BBSes that users can pick from and tie into an nntp service on their device.


    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.45
    * Origin: The future is not what it used to be. (2:221/1.58)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.3 to August Abolins on Wed Jul 1 22:08:44 2020
    August Abolins wrote to Alan Ianson:

    But those charts are a drab to read, and basically require an existing connection to even use. Something readily available and quick to access for the www-user would be good.

    I have the beginnings of an MBSE setup here. I have the trmb.ca website back online now. The webpage needs to be written still, there are only links
    right now to some statistics pages including message area stats created by NBSE.

    It's limited to the nets and areas I have here but it's online for folks to look at anytime and is updated at every toss.

    I don't think the BBS has much of a future. I have always enjoyed BBSing myself and prefer a telnet or ssh session but folks today
    don't need an interface like that and just don't understand what it
    is or what it can do for them.

    There is probably a very small demographic of users who would be entertained and patient with using the extra layer of a telnet client to reach a BBS.

    Yep, I'm going to go on BBSing myself but I don't think it's for everyone. Messaging is for everyone though. I'd be glad to hear from anyone regardless
    of how they access our message bases.

    I still like a good keyboard-based menu every now and then. But new people

    expect something they can tap.

    The traditional BBS interface is not likely to win over young people.

    Not today no. Before the internet we used a terminal to access BBSs. That
    was "online" in those days, and still is but it's not something folks will
    get on board with today.

    I think if we had a client/server model of some sort that folks could easily connect to with the app of their choice we would see more usage.

    It would be very nice if BBSes and their services (eg. echomail) could adapt to the new devices like smartphones and tablets that more and more people seem to prefer using.

    Yes, I think that is where people are these days and if we can do it that
    would be a good thing.

    I'm not convinced that a laptop has lost favour in use. A telnet client to

    reach a traditional BBS could still be viable that way for many years.

    No, my own laptop has a few terminals and might have a point connected to it
    at some point. A laptop can render a BBS or some sort of messaging app
    nicely.

    My lady friend for example has a desktop and laptop of her own. She has not used either since she got her tablet. She simply installs
    the app she wants and away she goes. She does not know or care what FTN is. She just wants to install her app and go.

    "BBSing ..but not for tablets" does not scream much of a future.

    BBSing is not easy on a tablet because the keyboard is in the way. I think
    it would work for a messaging app if we had any. We would need a server
    setup of some kind. I'm not sure the best way to do that or if we have programmers about who would like to take on that challenge.

    Then we'd need programmers to write apps for the PC/Android/IPad so they
    would need to know how the servers work and where to connect to them.

    We don't currently have a client/server model or the apps that folks might install but we could do that if we wanted to and if we had
    folks with those skills on board. We would need a plan to create all
    that and make it as simple as installing.

    I recon that's a fairly tall order. :)

    It would be a tall order to have something that presents most of the features of a BBS that way.

    I'm thinking just the message interface for tablets. If folks want the whole BBS experience they would have to do that in the usual way with telnet or
    ssh.

    But messaging (echomail) might be one of the first features of a BBS to implement with an app.

    Apple seems to offer a free design tools to build apps.
    Android has something called App Inventor.

    I'm no programmer so I don't know about any of that.

    Maybe a good first step is a prototype so that the UI requirements could be fleshed out.

    Yep, we just need someone who understands what we want to do and has the
    time and a desire to see that realized as well.

    tenser (Dan Cross) once asked folks (in fsxNet) generally what need to be
    done or improved. I think he was talking FTN but I have wondered if he might find this interesting.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... It works better if you plug it in.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.7.17 (GNU/Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.3)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.3 to August Abolins on Wed Jul 1 22:10:16 2020
    August Abolins wrote to Alan Ianson:

    Jamnntp sites offer a modest solution.

    A newsgroup config only requires a small handful of things not much more complicated than signing up with other services that people are already familiar "registering" with.

    [1] server name
    [2] port
    [3] user name, email address

    I believe MBSE has an nntp server available. I have never tried it myself
    but given some spare time I may give it a try.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.7.17 (GNU/Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.3)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.3 to Alan Ianson on Wed Jul 1 23:36:56 2020
    On Thu, 02 Jul 2020 00:00:00 -0700, August Abolins wrote:

    Hello Alan!
    Jamnntp sites offer a modest solution.

    A newsgroup config only requires a small handful of things not much more complicated than signing up with other services that people are already familiar "registering" with.

    I have setup the news server in MBSE, at least a start.

    I'm using pan right now.. It's not configured at all either but lets see
    what happens.. :)

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.7.17 (GNU/Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.3@fidonet)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Alan Ianson on Fri Jul 3 07:48:54 2020
    On 7/2/2020 1:08 AM, between "Alan Ianson : August Abolins":

    I have the beginnings of an MBSE setup here. I have the trmb.ca website back online now. The webpage needs to be written still, there are only links
    right now to some statistics pages including message area stats created by NBSE.

    It's limited to the nets and areas I have here but it's online for folks to look at anytime and is updated at every toss.

    The real-time or per toss update is to be expected, no exception! :)

    The http://trmb.ca/stat/mareas.html is pretty darn good. It is very helpful to display the official Tag name like you have it (and not just a description like most of the Synchronet sites do).

    You have a little problem with the "IndexIndex" pointing back to http://trmb.ca/stat/index.html

    It's fine start. Dress it up gradually.

    I'll send you a little "fido" doggie you might like to use.


    Then we'd need programmers to write apps for the PC/Android/IPad so they would need to know how the servers work and where to connect to them.

    The good programmers have been too busy in other markets! https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53263310 LOL


    tenser (Dan Cross) once asked folks (in fsxNet) generally what need to be done or improved. I think he was talking FTN but I have wondered if he might find this interesting.

    Try to rope him over here! :)

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)