• FTS-xxxx.001 PING and TRACE flags

    From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to All on Sat Apr 17 19:46:26 2021
    Hello All,

    === begin ===

    *********************************************************************
    FTSC FIDONET TECHNICAL STANDARDS COMMITTEE *********************************************************************

    Publication: FSP-xxxx
    Revision: 1
    Title: The PING and TRACE flags
    Author(s): Michiel van der Vlist
    Issue Date: 17 April 2021 =====================================================================


    Status:

    This document is a Fidonet Standards Proposal (FSP) - it specifies
    the best current practices for the Fidonet community, and requests
    discussion and suggestions for improvements. It is released to the
    public domain, and may be used, copied or modified for any purpose
    whatever.


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    Contents:
    0. Definitions
    1. Introduction.
    2. The problem.
    3. The solution.
    4. Considerations
    A. References
    B. History
    C. Contact data ---------------------------------------------------------------------


    0. Definitions
    --------------

    The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL
    NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL"
    in this document are to be interpreted as described in [FTA-1006].


    1. Introduction
    ---------------

    The PING functionality as introduced by Ward Dossche just over two
    centuries ago and advertised by the PING flag is a very useful tool
    in tracing and solving routing problems. This proposal is an update
    of the original specs and introduces the TRACE flag.


    2. The problem
    --------------

    In the original specification as documented by Ward Dossche in the
    April 2001 Z2 nodelist trailer and the specification last documented
    in FTS-5001.006, the PING functionality contains two parts. PING and
    TRACE. According to that specification systems flying the PING flag
    should support both PING and TRACE functionality.

    Recent surveys by the author however have shown that not all systems
    flying the PING flag also support the TRACE functionality. One could
    argue that current practise is that TRACE functionality is optional.

    Considering that the PING function alone is a very useful tool all
    by itself for both routing systems and leaf systems and that TRACE
    is only useful for routing systems, one may conclude that the above
    current practise works well, but that it is not complient with the
    original and current specs.


    3. The Solution
    ---------------

    Split up the PING and TRACE functionality.


    PING
    ----

    Specified as exactly "PING" with no arguments. Nodes flying this
    flag will adhere to the following functionality:

    If a message destined to user "PING" (case insensitive) arrives
    at its final destination and this final destination flies the
    PING flag, then the receiving node will bounce the message back
    to the original sender clearly quoting all the original via
    lines.

    If a message destined to "PING" arrives at its final destination
    but this final destination does _not_ fly the PING flag then the
    message may be deleted from the system without further action.


    TRACE
    -----

    Specified as exactly "TRACE" with no arguments. Nodes flying this
    flag will adhere to the following functionality:

    If a message destined to user "PING" (case insensitive) arrives
    at a node which flies the TRACE flag but is merely passing
    through to another destination then the in-transit node will
    notify the sender of this occurrence, clearly quoting the via
    lines, and forward the original mail unaltered towards its final
    destination.


    For both PING and TRACE responses, the sender's name must never
    be "PING" and the responses should never be addressed to "PING".


    4. Considerations
    -----------------

    Making the TRACE function optional by seperating the flags, is an
    encouragement for developers and script writers to join the project.
    They can choose to only implement the PING functionality and leave
    TRACE functionality for later or ommit it completely without
    violating the specs. This will hopefully make more sysops join
    the PING club.

    Splitting up the PING and TRACE functionality by introducing the
    TRACE flag is backward compatible. Systems flying the PING flag
    that do not support TRACE need do nothing, They are complient
    with the new specs. Systems flying the PING flag that support
    both PING and TRACE functionality may add the TRACE flag to their
    listing. But if they do not, no harm is done, they are still
    complient with the new specs, it just does not advertise all
    functionality.


    A. References
    -------------


    [FTS-5] "The distribution nodelist", Ben Baker, Rick Moore.
    February 1989. Obsoleted by FTS-5000.

    FTS-5000] "The distribution nodelist".
    FTSC Members, Administrator and Honoured Guests
    Januari 2014.

    [FTS-5001] "Nodelist flags and userflags".
    FTSC Members, Administrator and Honoured Guests
    Augustus 2017.

    A PING robot survey. Michiel van der Vlist
    Fidonews 38:07, 15 Februari 2021.

    Ping robot survey, a follow up. Michiel van der Vlist
    Fidonews 38:15, 12 April 2021.


    B. History
    ----------

    Rev,1, 2021-04-17: Initial release.


    C. Contact Data
    ---------------

    Michiel van der Vlist
    Fidonet: 2:280/5555
    E-mail: pa0mmv at vrza dot org


    === end ===

    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Michael Dukelsky@2:5020/1042 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sat Apr 17 21:34:24 2021
    Hello Michiel,

    Saturday April 17 2021, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to All:

    The PING functionality as introduced by Ward Dossche just over two centuries ago

    Really? I thought it was much earlier.

    Michael

    ... node (at) f1042 (dot) ru
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Moscow, Russia (2:5020/1042)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Michiel Van Der Vlist on Sat Apr 17 15:17:14 2021
    On 17 Apr 21 19:46:26, Michiel Van Der Vlist said the following to All:

    Specified as exactly "TRACE" with no arguments. Nodes flying this
    flag will adhere to the following functionality:

    Added here.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Michael Dukelsky on Sat Apr 17 21:50:46 2021
    Hello Michael,

    On Saturday April 17 2021 21:34, you wrote to me:

    Hello Michiel,

    Saturday April 17 2021, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to All:

    The PING functionality as introduced by Ward Dossche just over
    two centuries ago

    Really? I thought it was much earlier.

    Ah c'mon, just 10 dB off. ;-)


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to All on Sat Apr 17 21:54:48 2021
    Hello All,

    2nd attempt.


    === begin ===


    *********************************************************************
    FTSC FIDONET TECHNICAL STANDARDS COMMITTEE *********************************************************************

    Publication: FSP-xxxx
    Revision: 1
    Title: The PING and TRACE flags
    Author(s): Michiel van der Vlist
    Issue Date: 17 April 2021 =====================================================================


    Status:

    This document is a Fidonet Standards Proposal (FSP) - it specifies
    the best current practices for the Fidonet community, and requests
    discussion and suggestions for improvements. It is released to the
    public domain, and may be used, copied or modified for any purpose
    whatever.


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    Contents:
    0. Definitions
    1. Introduction.
    2. The problem.
    3. The solution.
    4. Considerations
    A. References
    B. History
    C. Contact data ---------------------------------------------------------------------


    0. Definitions
    --------------

    The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL
    NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL"
    in this document are to be interpreted as described in [FTA-1006].


    1. Introduction
    ---------------

    The PING functionality as introduced by Ward Dossche just over two
    decades ago and advertised by the PING flag is a very useful tool
    in tracing and solving routing problems. This proposal is an update
    of the original specs and introduces the TRACE flag.


    2. The problem
    --------------

    In the original specification as documented by Ward Dossche in the
    April 2001 Z2 nodelist trailer and the specification last documented
    in FTS-5001.006, the PING functionality contains two parts. PING and
    TRACE. According to that specification systems flying the PING flag
    should support both PING and TRACE functionality.

    Recent surveys by the author however have shown that not all systems
    flying the PING flag also support the TRACE functionality. One could
    argue that current practise is that TRACE functionality is optional.

    Considering that the PING function alone is a very useful tool all
    by itself for both routing systems and leaf systems and that TRACE
    is only useful for routing systems, one may conclude that the above
    current practise works well, but that it is not complient with the
    original and current specs.


    3. The Solution
    ---------------

    Split up the PING and TRACE functionality.


    PING
    ----

    Specified as exactly "PING" with no arguments. Nodes flying this
    flag will adhere to the following functionality:

    If a message destined to user "PING" (case insensitive) arrives
    at its final destination and this final destination flies the
    PING flag, then the receiving node will bounce the message back
    to the original sender clearly quoting all the original via
    lines.

    If a message destined to "PING" arrives at its final destination
    but this final destination does _not_ fly the PING flag then the
    message may be deleted from the system without further action.


    TRACE
    -----

    Specified as exactly "TRACE" with no arguments. Nodes flying this
    flag will adhere to the following functionality:

    If a message destined to user "PING" (case insensitive) arrives
    at a node which flies the TRACE flag but is merely passing
    through to another destination then the in-transit node will
    notify the sender of this occurrence, clearly quoting the via
    lines, and forward the original mail unaltered towards its final
    destination.


    For both PING and TRACE responses, the sender's name must never
    be "PING" and the responses should never be addressed to "PING".


    4. Considerations
    -----------------

    Making the TRACE function optional by seperating the flags, is an
    encouragement for developers and script writers to join the project.
    They can choose to only implement the PING functionality and leave
    TRACE functionality for later or ommit it completely without
    violating the specs. This will hopefully make more sysops join
    the PING club.

    Splitting up the PING and TRACE functionality by introducing the
    TRACE flag is backward compatible. Systems flying the PING flag
    that do not support TRACE need do nothing, They are complient
    with the new specs. Systems flying the PING flag that support
    both PING and TRACE functionality may add the TRACE flag to their
    listing. But if they do not, no harm is done, they are still
    complient with the new specs, it just does not advertise all
    functionality.


    A. References
    -------------


    [FTS-5] "The distribution nodelist", Ben Baker, Rick Moore.
    February 1989. Obsoleted by FTS-5000.

    FTS-5000] "The distribution nodelist".
    FTSC Members, Administrator and Honoured Guests
    Januari 2014.

    [FTS-5001] "Nodelist flags and userflags".
    FTSC Members, Administrator and Honoured Guests
    Augustus 2017.

    A PING robot survey. Michiel van der Vlist
    Fidonews 38:07, 15 Februari 2021.

    Ping robot survey, a follow up. Michiel van der Vlist
    Fidonews 38:15, 12 April 2021.


    B. History
    ----------

    Rev,1, 2021-04-17: Initial release.


    C. Contact Data
    ---------------

    Michiel van der Vlist
    Fidonet: 2:280/5555
    E-mail: pa0mmv at vrza dot org


    === end ===


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Andrew Leary@1:320/219 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sat Apr 17 16:27:28 2021
    Hello Michiel!

    17 Apr 21 21:54, you wrote to all:

    2nd attempt.

    Your proposal has been received and assigned the number FSP-1043.001.

    Thank you for your submission.

    Andrew
    FTSC Administrator

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)
  • From Paul Quinn@3:640/1384.125 to Andrew Leary on Sun Apr 18 08:23:52 2021
    Hi! Andrew,

    On 04/18/2021 06:27 AM, you wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

    Your proposal has been received and assigned the number FSP-1043.001.

    Would you please fix the "complient" (two instances, IIRC), in your file copy. There is no 'e'; it ought be replaced with an 'a', resulting in "compliant".

    Ta, muchly.

    Cheers,
    Paul.

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0
    * Origin: No Country Music for Old Men. (3:640/1384.125)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Andrew Leary on Sat Apr 17 19:50:00 2021
    ** On Sunday 18.04.21 - 08:23, Paul Quinn wrote to Andrew Leary:

    Would you please fix the "complient" (two instances, IIRC), in your file copy. There is no 'e'; it ought be replaced with an 'a', resulting in "compliant".

    There are several others that could use adjustment:

    practise : practice

    seperating : separating

    ommit : omit

    Januari : January

    Februari : February

    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.49
    * Origin: (2:221/1.58)
  • From Rob Swindell@1:103/705 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sat Apr 17 18:38:44 2021
    Re: FTS-xxxx.001 PING and TRACE flags
    By: Michiel van der Vlist to All on Sat Apr 17 2021 09:54 pm

    in FTS-5001.006, the PING functionality contains two parts. PING and
    TRACE. According to that specification systems flying the PING flag

    Make that: "two parts: PING and TRACE."

    argue that current practise is that TRACE functionality is optional.

    Alternate spelling of "practice" there.

    current practise works well, but that it is not complient with the
    ^^^^^^^^^ spelling

    Making the TRACE function optional by seperating the flags, is an
    ^^^^^^^^^^ spelling

    TRACE functionality for later or ommit it completely without
    ^^^^^ spelling

    that do not support TRACE need do nothing, They are complient

    caps ^ ^^^^^^^^^ spelling

    complient with the new specs, it just does not advertise all
    ^^^^^^^^^ spelling

    What's the FTSC documentation standard regarding grammar and spelling?
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Andrew Leary@1:320/219 to Paul Quinn on Sun Apr 18 01:46:58 2021
    Hello Paul!

    18 Apr 21 08:23, you wrote to me:

    Your proposal has been received and assigned the number
    FSP-1043.001.

    Would you please fix the "complient" (two instances, IIRC), in your
    file copy. There is no 'e'; it ought be replaced with an 'a',
    resulting in "compliant".

    I had seen that already; it has been corrected in the next draft.

    Andrew

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)
  • From Andrew Leary@1:320/219 to August Abolins on Sun Apr 18 01:48:16 2021
    Hello August!

    17 Apr 21 19:50, you wrote to me:

    There are several others that could use adjustment:

    practise : practice
    seperating : separating
    ommit : omit

    These have been corrected in the next draft.

    Januari : January
    Februari : February

    The dates have been changed to ISO format in the next draft.

    Andrew

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)
  • From Andrew Leary@1:320/219 to Rob Swindell on Sun Apr 18 01:50:00 2021
    Hello Rob!

    17 Apr 21 18:38, you wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

    @TZUTC: -0700
    @MSGID: 31180.ftsc_pub@1:103/705 24e13d70
    @REPLY: 2:280/5555 607b3d0b
    @PID: Synchronet 3.19a-Win32 master/ed1d83733 Apr 17 2021 MSC 1928
    @TID: SBBSecho 3.14-Linux master/aed987f4a Apr 16 2021 GCC 8.3.0
    @CHRS: ASCII 1
    @NOTE: FSEditor.js v1.104
    Re: FTS-xxxx.001 PING and TRACE flags
    By: Michiel van der Vlist to All on Sat Apr 17 2021 09:54 pm

    in FTS-5001.006, the PING functionality contains two parts. PING
    and TRACE. According to that specification systems flying the PING
    flag

    Make that: "two parts: PING and TRACE."

    argue that current practise is that TRACE functionality is
    optional.

    Alternate spelling of "practice" there.

    current practise works well, but that it is not complient with the
    ^^^^^^^^^ spelling

    Making the TRACE function optional by seperating the flags, is an
    ^^^^^^^^^^ spelling

    TRACE functionality for later or ommit it completely without
    ^^^^^ spelling

    that do not support TRACE need do nothing, They are complient

    caps ^ ^^^^^^^^^
    spelling

    complient with the new specs, it just does not advertise all
    ^^^^^^^^^ spelling

    What's the FTSC documentation standard regarding grammar and spelling?

    All of your changes above have been applied to the next draft. Thanks for your input.

    Andrew

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)
  • From Paul Quinn@3:640/1384.125 to Andrew Leary on Sun Apr 18 17:23:44 2021
    Hi! Andrew,

    On 04/18/2021 03:46 PM, you wrote:

    resulting in "compliant".

    I had seen that already; it has been corrected in the next draft.

    Thank you for your keen diligence.

    Cheers,
    Paul.

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0
    * Origin: In CyberSpace, no one can hear you whistle. (3:640/1384.125)
  • From Martin Foster@2:250/1.333 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sun Apr 18 09:43:20 2021
    Hello Michiel!

    *** Saturday April 17 2021 21:54, you wrote to All:

    MvdV> Hello All,

    MvdV> 2nd attempt.


    MvdV> === begin ===


    MvdV> *********************************************************************
    MvdV> FTSC FIDONET TECHNICAL STANDARDS COMMITTEE
    MvdV> *********************************************************************

    MvdV> Publication: FSP-xxxx
    MvdV> Revision: 1
    MvdV> Title: The PING and TRACE flags
    MvdV> Author(s): Michiel van der Vlist
    MvdV> Issue Date: 17 April 2021
    MvdV> =====================================================================


    MvdV> Status:

    MvdV> This document is a Fidonet Standards Proposal (FSP) - it specifies
    MvdV> the best current practices for the Fidonet community, and requests
    ^
    No comma required
    MvdV> discussion and suggestions for improvements. It is released to the
    MvdV> public domain, and may be used, copied or modified for any purpose
    ^
    No comma required
    MvdV> whatever.


    MvdV> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    MvdV> Contents:
    MvdV> 0. Definitions
    MvdV> 1. Introduction.
    MvdV> 2. The problem.
    MvdV> 3. The solution.
    MvdV> 4. Considerations
    MvdV> A. References
    MvdV> B. History
    MvdV> C. Contact data
    MvdV> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    In the above, do we need full stops after "Introduction.", "The problem." and "The solution.". I'm a bit unsure about that.

    MvdV> 0. Definitions
    MvdV> --------------

    MvdV> The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL
    MvdV> NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL"
    ^
    No comma required
    MvdV> in this document are to be interpreted as described in [FTA-1006].


    MvdV> 1. Introduction
    MvdV> ---------------

    MvdV> The PING functionality as introduced by Ward Dossche just over two
    ^
    Comma required
    MvdV> decades ago and advertised by the PING flag is a very useful tool
    ^
    Comma required
    MvdV> in tracing and solving routing problems. This proposal is an update
    MvdV> of the original specs and introduces the TRACE flag.


    MvdV> 2. The problem
    MvdV> --------------

    MvdV> In the original specification as documented by Ward Dossche in the
    MvdV> April 2001 Z2 nodelist trailer and the specification last documented
    MvdV> in FTS-5001.006, the PING functionality contains two parts. PING and
    ^
    Should be a comma
    MvdV> TRACE. According to that specification systems flying the PING flag
    ^
    Comma required
    MvdV> should support both PING and TRACE functionality.

    MvdV> Recent surveys by the author however have shown that not all systems
    ^
    Comma required
    MvdV> flying the PING flag also support the TRACE functionality. One could
    MvdV> argue that current practise is that TRACE functionality is optional.

    MvdV> Considering that the PING function alone is a very useful tool all
    MvdV> by itself for both routing systems and leaf systems and that TRACE
    MvdV> is only useful for routing systems, one may conclude that the above
    MvdV> current practise works well, but that it is not complient with the
    ^
    Comma not required
    MvdV> original and current specs.


    MvdV> 3. The Solution
    MvdV> ---------------

    MvdV> Split up the PING and TRACE functionality.


    MvdV> PING
    MvdV> ----

    MvdV> Specified as exactly "PING" with no arguments. Nodes flying this
    MvdV> flag will adhere to the following functionality:

    MvdV> If a message destined to user "PING" (case insensitive) arrives
    MvdV> at its final destination and this final destination flies the
    MvdV> PING flag, then the receiving node will bounce the message back
    MvdV> to the original sender clearly quoting all the original via
    ^
    Comma required
    MvdV> lines.

    MvdV> If a message destined to "PING" arrives at its final destination
    MvdV> but this final destination does _not_ fly the PING flag then the
    ^
    Comma required
    MvdV> message may be deleted from the system without further action.


    MvdV> TRACE
    MvdV> -----

    MvdV> Specified as exactly "TRACE" with no arguments. Nodes flying this
    MvdV> flag will adhere to the following functionality:

    MvdV> If a message destined to user "PING" (case insensitive) arrives
    MvdV> at a node which flies the TRACE flag but is merely passing
    MvdV> through to another destination then the in-transit node will
    ^
    Comma required
    MvdV> notify the sender of this occurrence, clearly quoting the via
    MvdV> lines, and forward the original mail unaltered towards its final
    ^
    Comma not required
    MvdV> destination.


    MvdV> For both PING and TRACE responses, the sender's name must never
    MvdV> be "PING" and the responses should never be addressed to "PING".


    MvdV> 4. Considerations
    MvdV> -----------------

    MvdV> Making the TRACE function optional by seperating the flags, is an
    ^
    Comma not required
    MvdV> encouragement for developers and script writers to join the project.
    MvdV> They can choose to only implement the PING functionality and leave
    MvdV> TRACE functionality for later or ommit it completely without
    ^
    Comma required
    MvdV> violating the specs. This will hopefully make more sysops join
    MvdV> the PING club.

    MvdV> Splitting up the PING and TRACE functionality by introducing the
    MvdV> TRACE flag is backward compatible. Systems flying the PING flag
    MvdV> that do not support TRACE need do nothing, They are complient
    ^
    Should be "t"
    MvdV> with the new specs. Systems flying the PING flag that support
    MvdV> both PING and TRACE functionality may add the TRACE flag to their
    MvdV> listing. But if they do not, no harm is done, they are still
    ^ ^ ^ ^
    Full stop not required and "B" should be "b" | |
    | |
    Comma should be a full stop and "t" should be "T"
    MvdV> complient with the new specs, it just does not advertise all
    MvdV> functionality.


    MvdV> A. References
    MvdV> -------------


    MvdV> [FTS-5] "The distribution nodelist", Ben Baker, Rick Moore.
    MvdV> February 1989. Obsoleted by FTS-5000.

    MvdV> FTS-5000] "The distribution nodelist".
    MvdV> FTSC Members, Administrator and Honoured Guests
    MvdV> Januari 2014.

    MvdV> [FTS-5001] "Nodelist flags and userflags".
    MvdV> FTSC Members, Administrator and Honoured Guests
    MvdV> Augustus 2017.

    MvdV> A PING robot survey. Michiel van der Vlist
    MvdV> Fidonews 38:07, 15 Februari 2021.

    MvdV> Ping robot survey, a follow up. Michiel van der Vlist
    MvdV> Fidonews 38:15, 12 April 2021.


    MvdV> B. History
    MvdV> ----------

    MvdV> Rev,1, 2021-04-17: Initial release.


    MvdV> C. Contact Data
    MvdV> ---------------

    MvdV> Michiel van der Vlist
    MvdV> Fidonet: 2:280/5555
    MvdV> E-mail: pa0mmv at vrza dot org


    MvdV> === end ===


    MvdV> Cheers, Michiel

    MvdV> --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    MvdV> * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

    That's all, have a nice day :))

    Regards,
    Martin

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Bitz-Box - Bradford - UK (2:250/1.333)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Rob Swindell on Sun Apr 18 11:25:32 2021
    Hello Rob,

    On Saturday April 17 2021 18:38, you wrote to me:

    argue that current practise is that TRACE functionality is
    optional.

    Alternate spelling of "practice" there.

    According to "The Shorter Oxford", "practise" with an 's' is the preferred spelling in the Queen's English.

    What's the FTSC documentation standard regarding grammar and spelling?

    AFAIK, there isn't any. Before the Brexit, I preferred the Queen's English over US English. Now I am inclined to advocate returning to French as the language for Post and Telecom...

    Thank you for your input.

    English spelling is a nightmare for non native speakers. The written and the spoken English almost seem two different languages. "Case" rhymes to "space". But why is the one spelled with an 's' and the other with a 'c'? And why does "ginger" not rhyme to "singer". And if "rhyme" rhymes to "slime", why is it not spelled "rime"? It is torture. ;-)

    I will leave it to the Andrew to figure it out.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Martin Foster on Sun Apr 18 13:39:18 2021
    Hello Martin,

    On Sunday April 18 2021 09:43, you wrote to me:

    That's all, have a nice day :))

    Thank you for your input. As a non native English speaker I will now stand back and let the natives take over. ;-)


    Cheers, Michiel


    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Michiel Van Der Vlist on Sun Apr 18 09:09:56 2021
    On 18 Apr 21 14:10:44, Michiel Van Der Vlist said the following to Nick Andre:

    An In-transit PING request was received and forwarded onward.

    That is so minimal it is practically useless..

    Well let me see what I can do, so you can stop being a dick.

    Nick
    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Nick Andre on Sun Apr 18 14:10:44 2021
    Hello Nick,

    On Saturday April 17 2021 15:17, you wrote to me:


    Specified as exactly "TRACE" with no arguments. Nodes flying
    this flag will adhere to the following functionality:

    Added here.

    I just tested it (again) and your robot does not show the via lines. The TRACE report does not even show the meta data of the message. It just says:

    An In-transit PING request was received and forwarded onward.

    That is so minimal it is practically useless..


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sun Apr 18 09:16:00 2021
    Hello Michiel!

    ** On Sunday 18.04.21 - 11:25, you wrote to Rob Swindell:

    Alternate spelling of "practice" there.

    According to "The Shorter Oxford", "practise" with an
    's' is the preferred spelling in the Queen's English.

    practise is a verb and practice is a noun.


    English spelling is a nightmare for non native speakers..
    The written and the spoken English almost seem two
    different languages. "Case" rhymes to "space". But why is
    the one spelled with an 's' and the other with a 'c'?

    Or.. even face, not fase. :( And there's vase, sometimes
    pronounced VAAZ.


    And why does "ginger" not rhyme to "singer". And if "rhyme"
    rhymes to "slime", why is it not spelled "rime"? It is
    torture. ;-)

    You CAN pronounce ginger as in singer. You'd be the life of the
    party! I know people who play around with words like that all
    the time. It's unexpected and hilarious. You can even embellish
    it by changing the emPHAsis on a differnet sylLABle.

    I get a kick out of how frech-canadians pronounce develop: de-
    ve-LUP. Where as the englaise prounce it: de-VEL-up.

    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.49
    * Origin: (2:221/1.58)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sun Apr 18 09:24:00 2021
    Hello Michiel!

    ** On Sunday 18.04.21 - 13:39, you wrote to Martin Foster:

    That's all, have a nice day :))

    Thank you for your input. As a non native English speaker I
    will now stand back and let the natives take over. ;-)

    From what I could tell in the short video clip that Ward posted
    on a sysop gathering a while ago, your spoken english was pretty
    good. But your written english is horrendous, as noted. ;)

    My first language wasn't english either. Growing up my english/
    latvian seemed like one language to me.

    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.49
    * Origin: (2:221/1.58)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Nick Andre on Mon Apr 19 00:27:20 2021
    Hello Nick,

    On Sunday April 18 2021 09:09, you wrote to me:

    Well let me see what I can do, so you can stop being a dick.

    Zone,1,North_America_(108),Toronto,Nick_Andre,1-647-847-2083,9600,CM,XX, INA:bbs.darkrealms.ca,IBN,PING,TRACE

    Arrived here. ;-)


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to Michiel van der Vlist on Mon Apr 19 16:55:16 2021
    Good ${greeting_time}, Michiel!

    18 Apr 2021 11:25:32, you wrote to Rob Swindell:

    argue that current practise is that TRACE functionality is
    optional.
    Alternate spelling of "practice" there.
    MvdV> According to "The Shorter Oxford", "practise" with an 's' is the
    MvdV> preferred spelling in the Queen's English.

    I prefer to see something more practical...
    ^

    What's the FTSC documentation standard regarding grammar and
    spelling?
    MvdV> AFAIK, there isn't any. Before the Brexit, I preferred the Queen's
    MvdV> English over US English.

    As a native speaker of non-germanic language, I can't tell for sure... some words are simplified in US English (compared to British), but some are really garbled.

    MvdV> Now I am inclined to advocate returning to French as the language
    MvdV> for Post and Telecom...

    That's almost impossible. English is a leader by a number of native speakers (hint: India), and has only one strong competitor: Chinese.

    MvdV> Thank you for your input. English spelling is a nightmare for non
    MvdV> native speakers. The written and the spoken English almost seem two
    MvdV> different languages. "Case" rhymes to "space". But why is the one
    MvdV> spelled with an 's' and the other with a 'c'? And why does "ginger"
    MvdV> not rhyme to "singer". And if "rhyme" rhymes to "slime", why is it
    MvdV> not spelled "rime"? It is torture. ;-)

    "Take "gh" as in "enough", "o" as in "women" and "ti" and in "nation" - and "fish" would have "ghoti" as a correct spelling."

    MvdV> I will leave it to the Andrew to figure it out.

    And other native speakers... hopefully they were good enough during their school-days, so they can serve as a Grammar-Police here :-)


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... that's why I really dislike fools.
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: ::1 (2:5020/545)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Alexey Vissarionov on Mon Apr 19 22:56:14 2021
    "Take "gh" as in "enough", "o" as in "women" and "ti" and in "nation" -
    and "fish" would have "ghoti" as a correct spelling."

    Oh dear, not again. I've been hearing thatone now for 56 years.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Apr.15 2021
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)