Now then, where does this poor girl live? In Russia, China or
North Korea? Nope! She lives in Nebraska USA. And her horrendous
crime was that she had taken an abortion pill three weeks after
the "legal" 20 weeks...
It must suck to be so insanely obsessed with another country. You live
in Sweden, but all you ever think about is the USA.
Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-
Now then, where does this poor girl live? In Russia, China or
North Korea? Nope! She lives in Nebraska USA. And her horrendous
crime was that she had taken an abortion pill three weeks after
the "legal" 20 weeks...
It must suck to be so insanely obsessed with another country. You live
in Sweden, but all you ever think about is the USA.
Well ... hmmmm ... maybe you could find an example how human
rights are trashed in Sweden and pay him back?
Start looking, when you find something let us know...
Nick Andre wrote to Dan Clough <=-
On 10 Aug 22 18:45:00, Dan Clough said the following to Bj*Rn
Felten:
It must suck to be so insanely obsessed with another country. You live
in Sweden, but all you ever think about is the USA.
He's just coming off the high of others celebrating his recent
birthday apparently.
My message-bases go back to 2003. Anytime the meatball receives
even the most trivial of compliments he quickly posts the usual
love letters to the USA. Every. Single. Time.
I actually wish him a fantastic birthday as well... one more year
counting towards his inevitable conclusion. Sucks that it can't
happen quick enough.
That wasn't my point, and you know it.
If he's so concerned about human rights, where are his messages
insulting China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc etc etc...?
Yeah, that's right. There aren't any. That's because *HIS* point
wasn't about human rights, either. It was just another cheap shot opportunity to poke at the USA. He's obsessed with finding fault with
the USA, and you know it as well as I do.
It sure is interesting how you feel the need to defend him at every
chance given. I wonder why that is.
You should look into the a little further... apparently her and her
mother aborted her baby... without a DR... Burned the baby... put it in
a grave.... dug it back up to burn it some more and put it back in the ground...
Humans are sexual animals. They just are. They have sex because they are programmed that way.
I think women have a right to advice and healthy choices although that may not be the case everywhere.
IB Joe wrote to Bj”rn Felten:
She murdered a baby... tried to conceal what she did....
No, you are using the wrong word. She had an abortion, that was a choice she made.
Alan Ianson wrote to Dan Clough <=-
She did abort her baby at 23 weeks. That's one thing.
Which is an illegal act, even before the recent Roe V Wade change.
Yes, that what they keep telling me.
That doesn't change what the authorities (and facebook) are doing.
Correct, they were investigating a crime.
If facebook can divulge this young ladies private messages with
her mother (or anyone else) they can divulge mine and yours too.
I have a problem with that and it has nothing to do with a womans
choice (or lack thereof).
Young women should have a choice and healthy options in a
situation like hers.
She had at least TWO choices and healthy options - have the baby (and
keep it), or have the baby and give it up for adoption.
That much is obvious. People have babies all the time.
You and me both are here because someone had a baby.
There is no need for senators, congressmen or law makers. People
can do this and they do it all the time.
Instead she broke the law and murdered a baby. Hopefully she (and the others involved) get some jail time for it.
She did not murder a baby, she had an abortion. That was a choice
she made for herself. I don't think that makes her a murderer.
Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-
She had at least TWO choices and healthy options - have the baby (and
keep it), or have the baby and give it up for adoption.
Whatever happens to the female's body after she gets pregnant, is
totally up to the female, not to a group of grumpy old men and
religious nut-cases who were not appointed because of their
medical knowledge but because of their political record in
handling cases.
The law is the law, and it doesn't matter if a judge is left
right or center leaning.
And Clarence Thomas should never have become a justice at the
supreme court in the first place. He was picked because of his
colour and his conservative record, should've kept his hands off
of Anita Hill, didn't even recluse himself ...
Ward Dossche wrote to IB Joe <=-
She murdered a baby... tried to conceal what she did....
1) Foetuses are viable somewhere after the 24th week completes.
Up until that
moment it isn't a live person, hence cannot be murdered;
3) Granted, it was in a very late stage I read. In this coutry 20
months is
the cut-off date. After that one needs a very good medical
reason;
The real issue here for me is how Facebook / Meta deals with
privacy ... divulges private messages between two individuals.
Alan Ianson wrote to Nick Andre <=-
Fine with me. Read exactly what happens during an abortion procedure and come back to me with your take on how healthy it is. "Look it up" you
used to say.
This is why abortion should not be illegal. Women need advice and
healthy choices. If abortion is illegal women are left with
unsafe choices.
And Facebook spilling personal messages..... PPPPPPPPPPPFFFFFFFFFFFFFT.
People "know" or should know what they're in for when they sign up with a company with a sole business to harvest personal data. No sympathy at all. Actually a fine example of that "untrustworthy American capitalism" certain morons love to whine about.
I agree with that wholly.
Still, I don't think facebook or other social media sites should
divulge a persons private messages.
This is why abortion should not be illegal. Women need advice and healthy choices. If abortion is illegal women are left with
unsafe choices.
You keep forgetting that they ALWAYS have a safe choice: Have the baby and give it up for adoption.
Still, I don't think facebook or other social media sites should divulge a persons private messages.
Even when served with a valid warrant/subpoena by law enforcement to do so? What other actual choice would they have?
She did not murder a baby, she had an abortion. That was a choice she made for herself. I don't think that makes her a murderer.
"I don't think" is the most important part of your post. This is an ethical and moral question.
I think it sounds like you're morally bankrupt given your last few posts here.
There's potentially room for debate, but blind support for everyone
who has an abortion, even one done illegally and gruesomely, is pretty messed up.
Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-
Thanks for sharing your *OPINION*. It does not match up against current USA law, no matter how much you wring your hands and stomp the floor.
The Supreme Court recently decided, majority versus minority,
that there is "NO" USA law covering abortion.
Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-
1) Foetuses are viable somewhere after the 24th week completes.
Up until that
moment it isn't a live person, hence cannot be murdered;
That's somewhat of a blurry line, which is clearly debateable.
Not at all. My youngest daughter is a delivery nurse and she put
in over 2 years of neo-natal care, I first checked before writing
the above. Younger than 24 weeks a fetus is not viable and if it
even survives childbirth will not make it. Starting at 24 full
weeks there's a lower odds fighting chance. I've seen my daughter
come home often enough when they again lost a fetus younger than
24 weeks. Pretty emotional. And my other daughter lost one at 22
weeks, probably induced by Covid19 in 2020 the same day I was hospitalized.
Easily answered: They do it when legally ordered to by a valid warrant/subpoena by a law enforcement agency. Quite simple, really. I honestly can't understand how people don't grasp this.
This is going to be an interesting lawsuit.
The subpoena/warrant will be thrown out as it was issued in
Nebraska to retrieve data stored in a data-warehouse in
California where no law was broken...remember, the SCOTUS turned
it over to the states.
I will already start writing my "Told you so" message ...
hopefully I'll remember where I stored it.
Stay safe, enjoy the week-end.
Alan Ianson wrote to Dan Clough <=-
This is why abortion should not be illegal. Women need advice and healthy choices. If abortion is illegal women are left with
unsafe choices.
You keep forgetting that they ALWAYS have a safe choice: Have the baby and give it up for adoption.
I have not forgotten. Yes, I agree those are good options but
they may not be feasible in every case.
Still, I don't think facebook or other social media sites should divulge a persons private messages.
Even when served with a valid warrant/subpoena by law enforcement to do so? What other actual choice would they have?
If facebook did get a warrant/subpoena from the authorities then
facebook had no choice in the matter.
I don't think a warrant/subpeona was justified in this case, or
it's use justified.
Why does facebook keep records of people's private messages? Is
that normal? Is that acceptable?
Alan Ianson wrote to IB Joe <=-
There were legal and safe ways of doing things... They chose the
messed up way.
Not everyone has the means to travel to another state or country
for medical care.
Every person (man or woman) should be able to get quality medical
care in their state.
Nick Andre wrote to Dan Clough <=-
The real issue here for me is how Facebook / Meta deals with
privacy ... divulges private messages between two individuals.
Easily answered: They do it when legally ordered to by a valid warrant/subpoena by a law enforcement agency. Quite simple, really. I honestly can't understand how people don't grasp this.
Me neither. Sign up for any social media, you accept all their
terms, accept consequences, accept chances of them being hacked,
leaking messages, folding witout question the moment someone from
law enforcement flashes their badge, the whole noise over the
Patriot Act, Prism, Snowden etc...
Its exhausting hearing about how we're all to feel sorry for
Darwin behavior.
You're pathetic. Fuck off, loser.
She murdered a baby... tried to conceal what she did....
No, you are using the wrong word. She had an abortion, that was a choice she
made.
You should look into the a little further... apparently her and hermother
aborted her baby... without a DR... Burned the baby... put it in a
grave.... dug it back up to burn it some more and put it back in the
ground...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P0QRXth_bQ
Who is this Salty Cracker you are following? ;)
She did abort her baby at 23 weeks. That's one thing.
That doesn't change what the authorities (and facebook) are doing.
Young women should have a choice and healthy options in a situation like hers.
herYou should look into the a little further... apparently her and
put itmother aborted her baby... without a DR... Burned the baby...
in tha grave.... dug it back up to burn it some more and put it back
ground...
You forgot that they finally ate the now well done baby. WithFrench
fries, ketchup and mustard.
It does not change the facts
Your lack of empathy with the poor girl is deafening. I guess your
obsession with me is clouding your judgement.
She murdered a baby... tried to conceal what she did....
Thank you for taking the time to write such a long reply to me. I do
not have the time, nor the motivation, to attempt to address each point you made. I'll just say that if you don't live here, you don't *REALLY* know what's going on, and leave it at that. There is no need to worry about the USA, we've got it.
That wasn't my point, and you know it.
Well, I'm not sure what your point is, but is the information which Bjorn passed around incorrect?
The event simply is headlined in Europe, front page in newspapers kinda style ... gossiping about a girlfriend, snitching to the authorities and reporting someone indeed is what was being done in the DDR of old, and the USSR, and (I'm sorry Godwin) Nazi Germany.
Facebook assisting the authorities in catching criminals I can live with, but you must be a pretty dumb criminal to use Messenger for illegal activities. In this case there's a frightened young girl who wants to walk away from something which spells 'disaster' for the remainder of her life and people like Samuel Alito, Clarence Thomas et al have no business what goes on in a woman's belly. If only the female justices would be involved it would be 3-1 in favour of 'Roe vs Wade' .. and that says a lot.
Yes, we are shocked by such decisions in a country which is supposed to be the beacon of freedom and democracy.
We are also shocked that a governing body such as the US Supreme Court can be composed so unbalanced and is not ashamed to push through a political agenda. Even Americans are shocked. Last week I was in DC and the only building that was protected by riot-barriers and police was the Supreme Court ...
How can it be that a body of 9 justices, whatever the majority, in 1973 decides that state laws banning abortion are unconstitutional and 49 years later decide that it "is" constitutional without a single letter in that constitution having been changed ...
pure ridiculous ...
party-political and religious driven in a country which prides itself of the
separation between church and state.
If he's so concerned about human rights, where are his messages
insulting China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc etc etc...?
I think he has, maybe not in echoes which you read.
Yeah, that's right. There aren't any. That's because *HIS* point
wasn't about human rights, either. It was just another cheap shot
opportunity to poke at the USA. He's obsessed with finding fault with
the USA, and you know it as well as I do.
On the contrary, he's a frequent former USA-traveller and in a good position
to judge different systems. Even my 12yr old granddaughter who was with me in DC wondered often aloud "Are they nuts in the USA?" and that was when we
were talking about healthcare, retirement, education, LGBT-rights, abortion, privacy ... 12 years and unpolluted by life ...
It sure is interesting how you feel the need to defend him at every
chance given. I wonder why that is.
Him and I have fought some battles in the past and bear the scars to prove it. Museums of such battle-relics exist. And I respect an opponent who has made considerable contributions to Fidonet even though my mouth hurts when saying it. Not once when I approached him have I come home empty-handed.
Bjorn is not an idiot, he's pretty intelligent and brilliant in his own way
and I like people like that. There are others, take Michiel for instance ... we can have our differences but his intelligence must be recognized. In
his statements Michiel is often right, and so is Bjorn.
Years ago during one of the scenes of The Simpsons, Bart was writing on the
blackboard "Being right sucks" ... the truth ... and the truth often hurts.
Let me tell you something silly ... your ZC as free unlimited access to the
Z2 sysop-echo, writing rights and everything. I think it's a great principle. When I request access to Z1C it can't be done because the consituency feels I defend Bjorn and that's unacceptable ... pathetic .. certainly when you realise these restricted echoes can be freely read on BBS-es.
How far should someone travel for health care?
What part of neutrality do you not understand? If Sweden had treated Germany differently than the Allies, how could that mean neutrality? Should we suddenly refuse to sell iron ore to Germany, while continuing
to sell to England?
It's not like we sold huge computer systems to the Nazis, to help
them with their Holocaust, is it?
Do you expect the governor of California or some other state to footthe
bill?
The governor of California publicly stated he would do this for anyone who wants an abortion but their state says no... So, yes... I would expect him to foot the bill.
... Some people are born stupid, others work to acquire it.
What was your method? 8-)
Listening to Tucker Carlson will work.
How far should someone travel for health care?
If you need services travel to where you can get it at the
best price and best timeliness of services. If I was
British and I had a hard time getting private dentistry, id
fly to the United States to get dental treatment.
I had a friend who would always go to a foreign country ( I think it was Singapore) for his dental treatment. He was in part aided by the fact
that much of his air travel could be done with frequent flyer miles.
We also have another crap bill SB 107 who wants to offer trans surgeries and medicine to out of state residents. My state is going to get broke
from all this stuff in California. I like to find out ways to dodge
paying sales tax whenever i can. Like buying crap from foreign countries.
Friend of mine's daughter was in a student exchange programme for
a year in the neighbourhood of Fort Worth and needed dental care.
It was cheaper having her flown back to Europe, have the thing
done and fly her back to Texas than having it done overthere in
the first place.
Your wooden nose just grew another inch.
Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-
Friend of mine's daughter was in a student exchange programme for
a year in the neighbourhood of Fort Worth and needed dental care.
It was cheaper having her flown back to Europe, have the thing
done and fly her back to Texas than having it done overthere in
the first place.
Your wooden nose just grew another inch.
My oldest daughter had major surgery with a galbladder removal.
Single room in hospital, TV, WiFi for the time she was
hospitalized ... I paid 1.29 Euro because she asked for an extra
bottle of water one day.
When my wife and I were hospitalized for some weeks in 2020 with
an acute Covid19 infection we paid around 230 Euro for like 14
days in a private isolation room, the both of us, TV, Wifi,
luxury meals, doctors, medication, tests ...
I have several examples ... Do I need to explain to you the cost
of healthcare, whatever healthcare, in the USA ?
You said California was going to pay the travel costs.
I don't see anything like that in the above.
What makes you think California is going to pay travel costs?
What is one of them??
Coming from him, it means somebody who is *NOT* a commie-wannabe-socialist Koolaid slurper who believes that everything should be free, and that the tiny little European countries that depend on the USA for nearly everything are far superior to the USA. His good buddy Beeeorn is even worse.
since other states are making it harder for minors to be transgender,
one of the nutjobs Scott Wiener from the city of fruits and nuts wants
to make it easier for trans youth to be transgender from out of state,
but its going to be more people to take care of that we cant afford.
If you want to be trans as an adult more power to you, and there are
even other well known trans adults like buck angel and blair white who
are getting sick of the idea of a 14 year old girl lobbing off her
breasts or a 16 year old boy getting his third leg inverted.
On 08-19-22 13:36, Ward Dossche <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Snitch Country <=-
Yes, I have insurance and that insurance paid it all. I pay a
reasonable amount for that insurance.
You have insurance. I suspect that it is paid for in part or in total
by your government.
There is a portion withheld from the salary which is called "social contributions" and part of that health insurance system is
funded from that source.
Dan Clough wrote to Mike Powell <=-
Oh, and you've also caught him in another lie... If these babies
(notice he's not calling it a 'fetus' any more) aren't really humans
yet, how can they "sense that they are dying"? Kinda goes against the 'viable' narrative, wouldn't you say? Right, Ward?
Dan Clough wrote to Mike Powell <=-
I guess their own countries are too boring to talk about.
Or.... by talking incessantly about how imperfect the US is, any conversation about the actual shit-hole status of their own countries
is avoided... It's another very common Lefty tactic.
Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-
Or perhaps the pain of being ripped apart by a pair of steel forceps? Having your limbs pulled from your body, maybe might hurt a little?
It seems you have no idea how an abortion works ... it's a mere pill,
or two pills ... Ever 'seen' an abortion, Dan? If forceps are shown,
it's something else...probably a propaganda video.
If a non-viable foetus is born, then it is a baby. There will be a birth-certificate and a death-certificate and an official burrial (with all the costs involved of an undertaker or so). Most cemetaries do have
a childrens lot, very small graves.
Those babies have way underdeveloped lungs and can't breathe properly, they will suffocate to death.
IB Joe wrote to Mike Powell <=-
On 19 Aug 2022, Mike Powell said the following...
The only work Alan will do is spin it around, claim he didn't say what he said, claim he was responding to someone else, etc.
He must be a democrat
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