Hello Daryl!

** 17.02.20 - 17:19, Daryl Stout wrote to AUGUST ABOLINS:

I have at least 200 vinyl records from what my late parents had, and I
need to find a way to dispose of them..

A couple of tips/ideas sent you via netmail.


../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.43
* Origin: Never test the depth of the water with both feet. (2:221/1.58)

August,

I have at least 200 vinyl records from what my late parents had, and I
need to find a way to dispose of them..

A couple of tips/ideas sent you via netmail.

I didn't see it in the email/netmail on the QWK packet. Maybe it'll be
in later. FIDONet 1:19/33 is the best netmail address for me.

Daryl

* OLX 1.53 * All computers wait at the same speed.
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
* Origin: The Thunderbolt BBS - tbolt.synchro.net (1:19/33)

Hello Daryl!

** 19.02.20 - 01:10, Daryl Stout wrote to AUGUST ABOLINS:

A couple of tips/ideas sent you via netmail.

I didn't see it in the email/netmail on the QWK packet. Maybe it'll be
in later. FIDONet 1:19/33 is the best netmail address for me.

I tried crash first:

From: August Abolins @ 2:221/1.58 (RBB, Ylojarvi)
Subject: Netcall to 1:19/33
Software: OpenXP/5.0.43 (Win32)
Date: Tu 18.02.20, 17:42
Size: 449 Bytes
-----------------------------------------------------------
17:42:38 CONNECT
17:42:38 OPT MB CRAM-MD5-5d8739ca91021a0f8a915eb61dcd567b
17:42:38 SYS The Thunderbolt BBS
17:42:38 ZYZ Daryl Stout
17:42:39 LOC Little Rock, AR
17:42:39 NDL CM,XX,TCP,IBN
17:42:39 TIME 2020/02/18 16:42:36 -6:00
17:42:39 VER Internet Rex 2.29 Win32 (binkp/1.1)
17:42:39 bad password
17:42:39 hangup
17:42:39 exiting

:(

Then I resorted to routed netmail, to your 1:19/33, leaving the path to
the fido elders.


../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.43
* Origin: Never test the depth of the water with both feet. (2:221/1.58)

Re: vinyl resting place
By: August Abolins to Daryl Stout on Thu Feb 20 2020 11:26:00

From: August Abolins @ 2:221/1.58 (RBB, Ylojarvi)
Subject: Netcall to 1:19/33

[...]

17:42:39 bad password

this happens to points a lot if their BOSS node has a secure session with the remote... for some reason, a lot of mailers find and use the BOSS' password for the session... i don't know if that's the actual case in this instance, though... IREX can be weird at times and the above could be due to something else...


)\/(ark
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)

HotdogEd/2.13.5
Hello, mark lewis.
On 20/02/2020 14.05 you wrote:

Re: vinyl resting place
By: August Abolins to Daryl Stout on Thu Feb 20 2020 11:26:00

From: August Abolins @ 2:221/1.58 (RBB, Ylojarvi)
Subject: Netcall to 1:19/33

[...]

17:42:39 bad password

this happens to points a lot if their BOSS node has a secure session
with the remote... for some reason, a lot of mailers find and use the BOSS' password for the session... i don't know if that's the actual case in this instance, though... IREX can be weird at times and the above
could be due to something else...

Well, in this case the boss does not have a password with this node.

Irex indeed is buggy as hell... so... ;)

Tommi

---
* Origin: smapinntp://rpi.rbb.bbs.fi (2:221/1)

August,

Then I resorted to routed netmail, to your 1:19/33, leaving the path to AA>the fido elders.

If you want a connect, netmail me with a password you want. I've got
it set to not allow connects from those not in my connect list.

Daryl


* OLX 1.53 * Backups? We don't need no steenking backups.
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
* Origin: The Thunderbolt BBS - tbolt.synchro.net (1:19/33)

Mark,

this happens to points a lot if their BOSS node has a secure session with th ML>remote... for some reason, a lot of mailers find and use the BOSS' password ML>the session... i don't know if that's the actual case in this instance, ML>though... IREX can be weird at times and the above could be due to something ML>else...

I have a secure session requirement. If folks want to set up a
connect, they can netmail me with a password, then I'll set it up where
they call poll virtually anytime (except when the BBS is down for
storms -- tornado season is here).

Daryl


* OLX 1.53 * Bad officials are elected by good citizens who don't vote
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
* Origin: The Thunderbolt BBS - tbolt.synchro.net (1:19/33)

Tommi,

Well, in this case the boss does not have a password with this node.

I just require a password for my connects.

Irex indeed is buggy as hell... so... ;)

I've rarely had a problem with it over here.

Daryl


* OLX 1.53 * Bad Restaurant: Hospital map on the back of the menu.
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
* Origin: The Thunderbolt BBS - tbolt.synchro.net (1:19/33)

Hi Daryl,

On 2020-02-20 19:49:00, you wrote to MARK LEWIS:

I have a secure session requirement. If folks want to set up a
connect, they can netmail me with a password, then I'll set it up
where they call poll virtually anytime (except when the BBS is down
for storms -- tornado season is here).

So you basically operate a Pvt node. So why does your node show the CM flag in the nodelist?
And btw a Pvt node can't be a RIN.

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hi Daryl,

On 2020-02-20 19:50:00, you wrote to TOMMI KOIVULA:

@MSGID: 342.fidonet-fidotest@1:19/33 22b46fc6
@REPLY: 2:221/1 5e4edd98
@PID: Synchronet 3.17c-Win32 Feb 11 2020 MSC 1924
@TZUTC: -0600
@TID: SBBSecho 3.10-Win32 r3.151 Feb 11 2020 MSC 1924
@CHRS: ASCII 1
Tommi,

Well, in this case the boss does not have a password with this node.

I just require a password for my connects.

Irex indeed is buggy as hell... so... ;)

I've rarely had a problem with it over here.

Daryl

* OLX 1.53 * Bad Restaurant: Hospital map on the back of the menu.
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
* Origin: The Thunderbolt BBS - tbolt.synchro.net (1:19/33)
SEEN-BY: 19/25 33 103/705 106/101 124/5014 5016 5018 130/230 803 154/10 SEEN-BY: 203/0 221/0 229/426 240/5832 261/38 280/464 5003 5555 288/100 SEEN-BY: 310/31 387/21 25 26 27 396/45 423/120 712/848 770/1 2452/250 SEEN-BY: 31999/99
@PATH: 19/33 396/45 280/464

Chit-chat test succesful.

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

20 Feb 20 19:50, Daryl Stout wrote to TOMMI KOIVULA:

Tommi,

Well, in this case the boss does not have a password with this node.

I just require a password for my connects.

Then you need to let your fidonet node number away.

'Tommi

---
* Origin: 2001:470:1f15:cb0:f1d0:2:221:1 (2:221/1)

Daryl Stout wrote to AUGUST ABOLINS <=-

Then I resorted to routed netmail, to your 1:19/33, leaving the path to
the fido elders.

If you want a connect, netmail me with a password you want.
I've got it set to not allow connects from those not in my
connect list.

Why? Doesn't really make much sense to prevent direct netmail.
Also probably violates Fidonet protocol, since you have the CM
flag in your nodelist entry. Not sure why you also have the MO
flag if there's a BBS running at that address.


... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Re: vinyl resting place
By: Daryl Stout to MARK LEWIS on Thu Feb 20 2020 19:49:00

this happens to points a lot if their BOSS node has a secure session with th
remote... for some reason, a lot of mailers find and use the BOSS' password
the session... i don't know if that's the actual case in this instance,
though... IREX can be weird at times and the above could be due to something
else...

I have a secure session requirement. If folks want to set up a connect,

they

can netmail me with a password, then I'll set it up where they call poll virtually anytime (except when the BBS is down for storms -- tornado

season

is here).

ok so stupid question: how are they supposed to netmail you if your system won't accept the connection because it is insecure?? if they send the request routed with the password then all systems in the route can see that password...

you really shouldn't use that requirement because it prevents random connections attempting to drop off mail and in networks where random connections are the basis for most private comms, well...


)\/(ark
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)

Re: Re: vinyl resting place
By: Wilfred van Velzen to Daryl Stout on Fri Feb 21 2020 09:40:33

I have a secure session requirement. If folks want to set up a
connect, they can netmail me with a password, then I'll set it up
where they call poll virtually anytime (except when the BBS is down
for storms -- tornado season is here).

So you basically operate a Pvt node. So why does your node show the CM

flag in

the nodelist?

there is that... you cannot be CM if you require a session level password and refuse insecure sessions...

And btw a Pvt node can't be a RIN.

why not? there's plenty of room for the Pvt flag at the beginning of the nodelist entry... a completely empty field, in fact...


)\/(ark
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)

Wilfred,

So you basically operate a Pvt node. So why does your node show the CM flag WVV>the nodelist?
And btw a Pvt node can't be a RIN.

I sent a netmail hub for clarification on this.

Daryl


* OLX 1.53 * Before drawing boards, where did they go back to??
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
* Origin: The Thunderbolt BBS - tbolt.synchro.net (1:19/33)

Tommi,

I just require a password for my connects.

Then you need to let your fidonet node number away.

All of my netmail connects require a session password. I sent a
netmail to my hub for clarfication, as I'm basically "a regional
independent". The Little Rock Area FIDONet Net 3821 disbanded long ago.

Daryl


* OLX 1.53 * Being born is bad for your health; it leads to death.
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
* Origin: The Thunderbolt BBS - tbolt.synchro.net (1:19/33)

Mark.

ok so stupid question: how are they supposed to netmail you if your system ML>won't accept the connection because it is insecure?? if they send the reques ML>routed with the password then all systems in the route can see that password

you really shouldn't use that requirement because it prevents random ML>connections attempting to drop off mail and in networks where random ML>connections are the basis for most private comms, well...

My main hub is Marc Lewis at 1:396/45, but I'm a regional independent.
The Little Rock Area FIDONet Net 3821 disbanded long ago...and there are
no other BBS's in Little Rock.

Daryl


* OLX 1.53 * Birds of a feather flock to a newly washed car.
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
* Origin: The Thunderbolt BBS - tbolt.synchro.net (1:19/33)

Dan,

Why? Doesn't really make much sense to prevent direct netmail.
Also probably violates Fidonet protocol, since you have the CM
flag in your nodelist entry. Not sure why you also have the MO
flag if there's a BBS running at that address.

I have sent a netmail to my main hub for clarification.

Daryl


* OLX 1.53 * Black Holes: What you get in black socks.
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
* Origin: The Thunderbolt BBS - tbolt.synchro.net (1:19/33)

Re: vinyl resting place
By: Daryl Stout to MARK LEWIS on Fri Feb 21 2020 16:39:00

ok so stupid question: how are they supposed to netmail you if your
system won't accept the connection because it is insecure?? if they
send the request routed with the password then all systems in the
route can see that password

i just wanted to point to the above once more...

you really shouldn't use that requirement because it prevents random connections attempting to drop off mail and in networks where random connections are the basis for most private comms, well...

My main hub is Marc Lewis at 1:396/45, but I'm a regional independent.
The Little Rock Area FIDONet Net 3821 disbanded long ago...and there
are no other BBS's in Little Rock.

that's all fine and good but has nothing to do with rejecting all insecure connections by default... you can require passwords all you like but to reject insecure by default is counter to what fidonet is all about... especially if, for example, i wanted to chat with you in netmail about this and didn't have a pre-arranged password set up... sure, i could route it but i may feel that it is private enough that sending it direct would be the best...

anyway, that's all i have to say about it... it is your system and you can run it however you like as long as it doesn't interfere with the operation of the network ;)


)\/(ark
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)

* Originally in fidotest
* Crossposted in netmail
* Crossposted in fido_sysop

Hi Daryl.

21 Feb 20 16:38:00, you wrote to me:

Tommi,

I just require a password for my connects.

Then you need to let your fidonet node number away.

All of my netmail connects require a session password.

If that is really the case, you DO NOT qualify as a fidonet node.

You should resign ASAP.

Bye,

'Tommi

... \\ZPO has been up for: 78 day(s), 6 hour(s), 28 minute(s), 13 second(s)
---
* Origin: - rbb.fidonet.fi - Finland - (2:221/360)

Tommi Koivula wrote to mark lewis <=-

Irex indeed is buggy as hell... so... ;)

Something else about Internet Rex that isn't well-known: it's case-sensitive when it comes to session passwords. I've run into that problem a lot over
the years with nodes using Internet Rex (including my own system).

Later,
Sean

... Confession is good for the soul but bad for your career.
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Outpost BBS * bbs.outpostbbs.net:10123 (1:18/200)

Daryl Stout wrote to MARK LEWIS <=-

ok so stupid question: how are they supposed to netmail you if your system
won't accept the connection because it is insecure?? if they send the reques
routed with the password then all systems in the route can see that password

you really shouldn't use that requirement because it prevents random
connections attempting to drop off mail and in networks where random
connections are the basis for most private comms, well...

My main hub is Marc Lewis at 1:396/45, but I'm a regional
independent. The Little Rock Area FIDONet Net 3821 disbanded long ago...and there are no other BBS's in Little Rock.

None of that has anything to do with the issue at hand. If your
nodelist entry includes the CM (continuous mail) flag, you are
stating that your system can receive netmail at any time. If you break
that by requiring a password, you are not complying with Fidonet
standards.

Plus, it just doesn't make any sense. Why deny netmail?

Don't confuse netmail with echomail... two different things.



... At the end of the day, it gets dark.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Hi Dan!

22 Feb 2020 20:38, from Dan Clough -> Daryl Stout:

My main hub is Marc Lewis at 1:396/45, but I'm a regional
independent. The Little Rock Area FIDONet Net 3821 disbanded long
ago...and there are no other BBS's in Little Rock.

None of that has anything to do with the issue at hand. If your
nodelist entry includes the CM (continuous mail) flag, you are
stating that your system can receive netmail at any time. If you
break that by requiring a password, you are not complying with Fidonet
standards.

Plus, it just doesn't make any sense. Why deny netmail?

I 100% agree with you!
And indeed it makes zero sense to deny direct netmail, and indeed it breaks the standard!

CU, Ricsi

... Yes, I'm a minion of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: Spring makes everything young again except humans. (2:310/31)

Mark,

i just wanted to point to the above once more...

Well, I sent a message to my hub, Marc Lewis at 1:396/45, since I'm a regional independent.

anyway, that's all i have to say about it... it is your system and you can r ML>it however you like as long as it doesn't interfere with the operation of th ML>network ;)

I changed the one setting in IREX to "allow non-listed connections",
but could not find the option for "unsecure connections".

Daryl


* OLX 1.53 * Can you repeat the part after "Listen Very Carefully"??
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
* Origin: The Thunderbolt BBS - tbolt.synchro.net (1:19/33)

Tommi,

All of my netmail connects require a session password.

If that is really the case, you DO NOT qualify as a fidonet node.

You should resign ASAP.

First, you are NOT my network coordinator, and I do NOT have to
answer to you.

There are too many self righteous Sysops out there, who think they
can never do anything wrong with their BBS, and that everyone should
answer to them. For these Sysops, the T-shirt "We'll all get along just
fine, when you come to realize I'm God" comes to mind.

I have sent a netmail to him for his assistance. Configurations can
get corrupted and changed with program upgrades, etc. All of us make mistakes...that's like saying "you never sinned"...well, by that
statement, you just did.

Daryl


* OLX 1.53 * Cannibals eat missionaries to get a taste of religion.
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
* Origin: The Thunderbolt BBS - tbolt.synchro.net (1:19/33)

Re: Re: vinyl resting place
By: Sean Dennis to Tommi Koivula on Sat Feb 22 2020 11:11:08

Something else about Internet Rex that isn't well-known: it's case-sensitive when it comes to session passwords.

with FTN protocols, it should not be... they're generally all uppercase... with binkp, though, yes, they are case sensitive because the spec allows/requires(?) them to be case sensitive... i would imagine that other protocols IREX supports (FTP for example) are case sensitive when needed...


)\/(ark
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)

Hello Daryl,

On Saturday February 22 2020 17:24, you wrote to MARK LEWIS:

I changed the one setting in IREX to "allow non-listed connections",
but could not find the option for "unsecure connections".

It has been many years since I last used Irexm but IIRC there is no setting for refusing unsecure connection. There is a per node option to mark the link as secure or unsecure, but that does not mean the connection is refused. Setting a link as unsecure means that the mail arrives in the unsecure inbound.

But that is not the problem.

16:26 [4036] creating a poll for 1:19/33@fidonet (`d' flavour)
16:26 [4036] clientmgr started
+ 16:26 [2192] call to 1:19/33@fidonet
16:26 [2192] trying f33.n19.z1.binkp.net [71.238.137.238]...
? 16:26 [2192] connection to 1:19/33@fidonet failed: {W32 API error
10060} Connection timed out
16:26 [4036] the queue is empty, quitting...

There is no connection at all. So either your binkd is not running in daemon mode or your firewall is not passing incoming on port 24554. (inclusive or)


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Re: vinyl resting place
By: Michiel van der Vlist to Daryl Stout on Sun Feb 23 2020 17:58:05


MvdV> 16:26 [4036] creating a poll for 1:19/33@fidonet (`d' flavour)
MvdV> 16:26 [4036] clientmgr started
MvdV> + 16:26 [2192] call to 1:19/33@fidonet
MvdV> 16:26 [2192] trying f33.n19.z1.binkp.net [71.238.137.238]...
MvdV> ? 16:26 [2192] connection to 1:19/33@fidonet failed: {W32 API error
MvdV> 10060} Connection timed out
MvdV> 16:26 [4036] the queue is empty, quitting...

MvdV> There is no connection at all. So either your binkd is not
MvdV> running in daemon mode or your firewall is not passing incoming
MvdV> on port 24554. (inclusive or)

it is possible that he had the system down for storms in the area... they have a huge number of really nasty ones where he lives and he shuts down when they are in the area... i don't blame him one bit, either... i do the same here but we have much fewer lightning storms here than he has there...


)\/(ark
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)

Hi Daryl!

22 Feb 2020 17:28, from Daryl Stout -> TOMMI KOIVULA:

All of my netmail connects require a session password.

If that is really the case, you DO NOT qualify as a fidonet node.
You should resign ASAP.

First, you are NOT my network coordinator, and I do NOT have to
answer to you.

You are not following minimum standards.
He does not need to be your network coordinator to point that out!

And he is right that you should downgrade to being a point if you are incapable or unwilling to follow minimum standards!

There are too many self righteous Sysops out there, who think they
can never do anything wrong with their BBS, and that everyone should answer to them. For these Sysops, the T-shirt "We'll all get along
just fine, when you come to realize I'm God" comes to mind.

???

If somebody is not adhereing to minimum standards, then people are free to point that out.
Rightfully!

I have sent a netmail to him for his assistance. Configurations can
get corrupted and changed with program upgrades, etc. All of us make mistakes...that's like saying "you never sinned"...well, by that statement, you just did.

Not being able to send you direct netmail is a HUGE issue!!

CU, Ricsi

... Mushrooms grow in damp places... that's why they look like umbrellas!
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: We have no rights here anymore; only privileges. (2:310/31)

On 22.2.2020 17:28, Daryl Stout wrote:

Tommi,

All of my netmail connects require a session password.

If that is really the case, you DO NOT qualify as a fidonet node.

You should resign ASAP.

First, you are NOT my network coordinator,

No. Just a member of fidonet who accepts mail from any nodelisted node. Which is a requirement for a node number. As you already know.

and I do NOT have to answer to you.

You just did.

'Tommi

---
* Origin: rbb soupgate, the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/1.11)

Trustedbird/68.5.0
On 23.02.2020 3:28, Daryl Stout wrote:

First, you are NOT my network coordinator, and I do NOT have
to answer to you.
There are too many self righteous Sysops out there, who think
they can never do anything wrong with their BBS, and that
everyone should answer to them. For these Sysops, the T-shirt
"We'll all get along just fine, when you come to realize I'm
God" comes to mind. I have sent a netmail to him for his
assistance. Configurations can ??get corrupted and changed with
program upgrades, etc. All of us make mistakes...that's like
saying "you never sinned"...well, by that statement, you just
did. Daryl

Any sysop can send complaint. Anyway, if you don't want to receive
mail from anyone but secured links, you should change your node status
to Pvt and fix the nodelist flags. And no problems if it was just misconfiguration, is can be fixed too.

--
... It's full of stars!
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Trustedbird/68.5.0
* Origin: Dewy News (2:5075/128)

Hello Richard.

<On 23Feb2020 19:37 Richard Menedetter (2:310/31) wrote a message to Daryl Stout regarding vinyl resting place >

All of my netmail connects require a session password.

If that is really the case, you DO NOT qualify as a fidonet node.
You should resign ASAP.

Rubbish.

First, you are NOT my network coordinator, and I do NOT have to
answer to you.

You are not following minimum standards.
He does not need to be your network coordinator to point that out!

On what do you base your conclusion?

And he is right that you should downgrade to being a point if you
are incapable or unwilling to follow minimum standards!

To whose "minimum standards" do you refer? Yours? As I see it, Daryl's system is up to spec. If you want to send NetMail to him, do so; it gets routed through my system, which is according to P4.

[snip}

Not being able to send you direct netmail is a HUGE issue!!

How so? What's wrong with Routed NetMail?

Best regards,
Marc

--- timEd/2 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Sursum Corda! BBS-Huntsville,AL-bbs.sursum-corda.com (1:396/45)

Hello mark,

On Sunday February 23 2020 13:11, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> There is no connection at all. So either your binkd is not
MvdV>> running in daemon mode or your firewall is not passing
MvdV>> incoming on port 24554. (inclusive or)

it is possible that he had the system down for storms in the area...

I can't rule it out but OTOH I can't rule out that he has never been able to accept incoming calls at all. He claims he had his systen configured to accept password protected incoming omly, but IIRC Irex has no dedicated settings for that. Add to that that no one has actually reported any repsonse on incoming at all from him, my intelligent guess is that he has not yet progressed beyond outgoing only...


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hello mark!

** 23.02.20 - 13:11, mark lewis wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

MvdV> There is no connection at all. So either your binkd is not
MvdV> running in daemon mode or your firewall is not passing incoming MvdV> on port 24554. (inclusive or)

it is possible that he had the system down for storms in the area... they
have a huge number of really nasty ones where he lives and he shuts down
when they are in the area...

His BBS is responding with a manual telnet login, at this time.

But a system call via OpenXP or WinPoint gets no response at all, at this time.

Maybe he is in the midst of further configuration for the CM, IBN parts to work openly and accept mail.


../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.43
* Origin: Never test the depth of the water with both feet. (2:221/1.58)

Re: vinyl resting place
By: August Abolins to mark lewis on Sun Feb 23 2020 18:03:00

it is possible that he had the system down for storms in the area... they
have a huge number of really nasty ones where he lives and he shuts down
when they are in the area...

His BBS is responding with a manual telnet login, at this time.

But a system call via OpenXP or WinPoint gets no response at all, at this

time.

confirmed...

-d 1:19/33@fidonet
+ 23:09ZULU [20928] call to 1:19/33@fidonet
23:09ZULU [20928] trying tbolt.synchro.net [71.238.137.238]...
? 23:11ZULU [20928] connection to 1:19/33@fidonet failed: Connection timed out + 23:11ZULU [20928] holding 1:19/33@fidonet (2020/02/23 18:21:24)
23:11ZULU [21410] rc(20928)=0


)\/(ark
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)

Hi Marc!

23 Feb 2020 15:47, from Marc Lewis -> Richard Menedetter:

First, you are NOT my network coordinator, and I do NOT have to
answer to you.

You are not following minimum standards.
He does not need to be your network coordinator to point that
out!

On what do you base your conclusion?

According to the thread here he has the CM flag, but you are unable to send him direct netmail without a password.

He never disagreed to those facts.

Not being able to send you direct netmail is a HUGE issue!!

How so? What's wrong with Routed NetMail?

The reason for a communication network is communication.
Actively disallowing that is a really bad idea!

CU, Ricsi

... There just isn't any pleasing some people. The trick is to stop trying.
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: Reality is for people with no grasp of fantasy. (2:310/31)

Hello Marc,

On Sunday February 23 2020 15:47, you wrote to Richard Menedetter:

If that is really the case, you DO NOT qualify as a fidonet
node. You should resign ASAP.

Rubbish.

As it is, he has the reacheability of a point..

And he is right that you should downgrade to being a point if you
are incapable or unwilling to follow minimum standards!

To whose "minimum standards" do you refer? Yours?

FTS-5000.

As I see it, Daryl's system is up to spec.

The nodelist advertises his system as capable of accepting binkp calls 24/7. It isn't

If you want to send NetMail to him, do so; it gets routed through my system, which is according to P4.

No, it is not. Mail to RINs may not be routed according to P4.

P4 1.2.4:

A Regional Coordinator does not perform message-forwarding services for any nodes in the region.

You are provoking Richard to commit a P4 violation.

[snip}

Not being able to send you direct netmail is a HUGE issue!!

How so? What's wrong with Routed NetMail?

1) P4 only supports Host or Hub routing for nodes in a local net.

2) Routed netmail is insecure. It can be spied upon.

3) Routing netmail is unreliable. Too many black holes.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hello Michiel.

<On 23Feb2020 17:58 Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555) wrote a message to Daryl Stout regarding vinyl resting place >

[snip]
MvdV> 16:26 [2192] connection to 1:19/33@fidonet failed: {W32 API error
MvdV> 10060} Connection timed out
MvdV> 16:26 [4036] the queue is empty, quitting...

MvdV> There is no connection at all. So either your binkd is not
MvdV> running in daemon mode or your firewall is not passing incoming
MvdV> on port 24554. (inclusive or)

Where Daryl lives there is a great deal of really foul weather, including abundant lightning storms and tornado activity. More than likely you were trying to connect during one of those storm cycles when he takes the system off line for obvious reasons.

Best regards,
Marc

--- timEd/2 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Sursum Corda! BBS-Huntsville,AL-bbs.sursum-corda.com (1:396/45)

Hi Marc,

On 2020-02-24 15:47:52, you wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

SEEN-BY: 19/25 33 103/705 106/101 124/5014 5016 5018 130/230 803
154/10
SEEN-BY: 203/0 221/0 229/426 240/5832 261/38 280/464 5003 5555 288/100 SEEN-BY: 310/31 387/21 25 26 27 396/45 423/120 712/848 770/1 2452/250 SEEN-BY: 31999/99

Since this is the FIDOTEST area: where is that 31999/99 node number coming from?

@PATH: 396/45 280/464

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Re: Re: vinyl resting place
By: Wilfred van Velzen to Marc Lewis on Mon Feb 24 2020 23:08:40


MarcL>> SEEN-BY: 19/25 33 103/705 106/101 124/5014 5016 5018 130/230
MarcL>> SEEN-BY: 130/803 154/10 203/0 221/0 229/426 240/5832 261/38
MarcL>> SEEN-BY: 280/464 5003 5555 288/100 310/31 387/21 25 26 27
MarcL>> 396/45 423/120 712/848 770/1 2452/250 31999/99

Since this is the FIDOTEST area: where is that 31999/99 node
number coming from?

probably one of the old 3D point nets...

@PATH: 396/45 280/464

likely a thing with Marc's system and older software...


)\/(ark
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)

On 24 Feb 20 23:08:40, Wilfred Van Velzen said the following to Marc Lewis:

Since this is the FIDOTEST area: where is that 31999/99 node number coming from?

The Zone 1 Super Secret Conspiracy Society. Care to Areafix it?

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Hello Marc,

On Monday February 24 2020 15:47, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> There is no connection at all. So either your binkd is not
MvdV>> running in daemon mode or your firewall is not passing incoming
MvdV>> on port 24554. (inclusive or)

Where Daryl lives there is a great deal of really foul weather,
including abundant lightning storms and tornado activity. More than likely you were trying to connect during one of those storm cycles
when he takes the system off line for obvious reasons.

That theory has already been falsified by the observation that his BBS is on-line.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hello Wilfred.

<On 24Feb2020 23:08 Wilfred van Velzen (2:280/464) wrote a message to Marc Lewis regarding Re: vinyl resting place >

SEEN-BY: 310/31 387/21 25 26 27 396/45 423/120 712/848 770/1 2452/250 SEEN-BY: 31999/99

Since this is the FIDOTEST area: where is that 31999/99 node
number coming from?

Private net. That's the BBS's "node" number since its message base is separate from the main message base. The BBS's messages are scanned for junk and curse words which are edited out with ######'s (GSAR.) Can't do that to EchoMail that gets distributed. Been that way for the last 24 years.

Best regards,
Marc

... I was going to tell you a UDP joke, but I'm not sure you would get it.
--- timEd/2 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Sursum Corda! BBS-Huntsville,AL-bbs.sursum-corda.com (1:396/45)

Hello Michiel.

<On 24Feb2020 23:48 Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555) wrote a message to Marc Lewis regarding vinyl resting place >

[snip]

Where Daryl lives there is a great deal of really foul weather,
including abundant lightning storms and tornado activity. More than likely you were trying to connect during one of those storm cycles
when he takes the system off line for obvious reasons.

MvdV> That theory has already been falsified by the observation that
MvdV> his BBS is on-line.

You're mistaken. End of discussion.

Best regards,
Marc

... 2B.or./2b
--- timEd/2 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Sursum Corda! BBS-Huntsville,AL-bbs.sursum-corda.com (1:396/45)

Dan,

None of that has anything to do with the issue at hand. If your
nodelist entry includes the CM (continuous mail) flag, you are
stating that your system can receive netmail at any time. If you break DC>that by requiring a password, you are not complying with Fidonet DC>standards.

Well, IREX is now crashing constantly in Daemon Mode...so, I've sent
netmails to all my connects to REMOVE the CM flag from the nodelist
entry (I won't have MO either, because I accept BBS callers). It might
also be due to another Microsoft Windows 10 update...or because I
changed the setting to accept secure and insecure BinkP connects. I
should've left well enough alone.

In short, those who want to netmail me should route netmail to
FIDONet Node 1:19/33 through my FIDONet Hub, Marc Lewis, at 1:396/45 --
while part of other networks, FIDONet is my main netmail setup.

I will look into getting the BinkP deal with Synchronet working, but
right now, I have medical and financial issues outside the BBS that are demanding my attention...so the hobby stuff has to wait...whether I, or
anyone else, likes it or not.

Daryl


* OLX 1.53 * Put it on my Blackberry? I don't even have a pomegranate!
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
* Origin: The Thunderbolt BBS - tbolt.synchro.net (1:19/33)

Michiel,

MVDV>There is no connection at all. So either your binkd is not running in daem MVDV>mode or your firewall is not passing incoming on port 24554. (inclusive or

It is open on the firewall, but now, IREX is constantly crashing in
Daemon mode...either because of an update with Microsoft Windows 10, or
because I didn't leave well enough alone.

So, I have SHUT DOWN the daemon mode, and will use Internet Rex ONLY
during the BBS's nightly maintenance, just after 12 midnight US Central
Time. Those wanting to netmail me, should send FIDONet Netmail to
1:19/33, but route it through my hub, Marc Lewis, at 1:396/45 -- while
part of other FTN networks, I prefer FIDONet Netmail.

I will look at implementing the BinkP deal with Synchronet, but with
medical and financial issues outside the BBS, that is going to have to wait...whether I or anyone else likes it or not.

Daryl


* OLX 1.53 * Put The Cat Out?? I didn't know it was on fire!!
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
* Origin: The Thunderbolt BBS - tbolt.synchro.net (1:19/33)

Not being able to send you direct netmail is a HUGE issue!!

Well, Internet Rex is now crashing in daemon mode, due to either
because I didn't leave well enough alone, or an update from Microsoft
Windows 10.

So, I have netmailed all my hubs, telling them to REMOVE the CM flag
from my nodelist entry (I can't use MO, since I accept callers), but any netmail to me, should route it to 1:19/33 (I'm a regional independent)
through Marc Lewis at 1:396/45.

I will look at setting up BinkP with Synchronet, but right now, I have medical and financial issues outside the BBS...so that has to
WAIT...whether I, or anyone else likes it or not.

Daryl

* OLX 1.53 * Reading while sunbathing makes you well-red.
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
* Origin: The Thunderbolt BBS - tbolt.synchro.net (1:19/33)

Eugene,

Any sysop can send complaint. Anyway, if you don't want to receive
mail from anyone but secured links, you should change your node status
to Pvt and fix the nodelist flags. And no problems if it was just ES>misconfiguration, is can be fixed too.

Well, Internet Rex is crashing now in daemon mode, because I either
didn't leave well enough alone...or due to an update with Microsoft
Windows 10.

So, I have netmailed all my hubs, asking that the CM be REMOVED from
the nodelist entry, and that any routed netmail should be sent to
FIDONet node 1:19/33 (I'm a regional independent), and routed through
Marc Lewis at 1:396/45

I will look at Synchronet's BinkP deal...but right now, I have
numerous medical and financial issues outside the BBS that demand my
attention. So, this item has to WAIT...whether I or anyone else likes it
or not.

Daryl


* OLX 1.53 * Real Sysops read the documentation; or at least skim them
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
* Origin: The Thunderbolt BBS - tbolt.synchro.net (1:19/33)

Mark,

it is possible that he had the system down for storms in the area... they ha ML>a huge number of really nasty ones where he lives and he shuts down when the ML>are in the area... i don't blame him one bit, either... i do the same here b ML>we have much fewer lightning storms here than he has there...

No amount of surge protection will save your stuff from damage from a
direct or close lightning strike. Each lightning bolt is:

1) 5 miles long, but only as wide as your finger.

2) 50,000 degrees Fahrenheit, 5 times hotter than the surface of the
sun.

3) Packed with 3 million volts, and 300,000 amps of electricity.

4) Able to strike from 20 to as much as 200 miles from the parent
thunderstorm, in "a bolt from the blue" (skies overhead may be clear).

One fellow amateur radio operator had spared no expense for surge protection....you name it, he bought it, and installed it. To him, price
was no object. But, the millions of dollars he had spent were a waste.

He took a direct hit from lightning, and this is what happened:

A) His amateur radio tower, antenna, mast, and coaxial cable, were
VAPORIZED -- there was NOT A TRACE LEFT of ANY of those items.

B) The inside of his UPS units and computer towers were as black as
coal, and all the electronic circuit boards, were fused together.

C) Scorch marks were down every wall of his home.

This is from a 2 time lightning strike survivor, who has nervous
system damage and other disabilities as a result.

Trying to win an argument with lightning is like a husband trying to
win an argument with his wife.

Daryl


* OLX 1.53 * Remember, half the people you know are below average.
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
* Origin: The Thunderbolt BBS - tbolt.synchro.net (1:19/33)

Marc,

To whose "minimum standards" do you refer? Yours? As I see it, Daryl's sys ML>is up to spec. If you want to send NetMail to him, do so; it gets routed ML>through my system, which is according to P4.

That works for me.

How so? What's wrong with Routed NetMail?

That is the way I'm going to have to go. IREX is constantly crashing
in daemon mode now, because I either didn't leave well enough alone, or
from an update with Microsoft Windows 10.

Since the Little Rock FIDONet (Net 3821) disbanded long ago, and
there's only one other BBS in Arkansas besides mine, it makes no sense
to try to revive that net. So, I'm a "regional independent".

Regardless, I've netmailed all my connects/hubs to REMOVE the CM
designation from my nodelist entry, and then to route any netmail
directed to 1:19/33, through you at 1:396/45 -- I guess these idiots
would prefer an insecure connection. Those who've contacted me to set up
a session (BinkP) password, have not complained one bit.

I am going to check into seeing if I can implement the BinkP option
with Synchronet. However, with thunderstorms developing at this
typing...as well as numerous medical and financial issues for me outside
the BBS right now, that has to WAIT...whether I, or anyone else, likes
it or not.

If my health fails, I have nothing...never mind I have over 50 medical conditions already, and they keep finding stuff wrong with me. Like it
or not, all of us are going to die sooner or later...and ones health can
change in the blink of an eye. I just lost a close friend to breast
cancer last Friday, and found out another friend was diagnosed with
colon cancer.

BBSing is a HOBBY...it is NOT "my god to worship", where I spend every
waking moment with it. The same goes with my other hobbies of amateur
radio, and square dancing. While I'm doing quite a few things with each
one, I don't spend every waking moment with them.

Daryl

* OLX 1.53 * Rotisserie: A Ferris Wheel for chickens.
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
* Origin: The Thunderbolt BBS - tbolt.synchro.net (1:19/33)

August,

Maybe he is in the midst of further configuration for the CM, IBN parts to AA>work openly and accept mail.

IREX is constantly crashing now in daemon mode, because I didn't leave
well enough alone...or because of a recent update with Microsoft Windows
10.

So, I've netmailed all my coordinators to REMOVE the CM flag from the nodelist, and if anyone wants to contact me via FIDONet Netmail to
1:19/33, they can route it through Marc Lewis at 1:396/45 -- I've got
some others who've contacted me to set up BinkP passwords, and they
didn't complain at all.

For now, IREX will be run once a day during the BBS's Nightly
Maintenance. Since the Little Rock Area FIDONet (Net 3821) folded up
years ago, and there's only one other BBS in Arkansas, I have to be a
"regional independent".

Daryl


* OLX 1.53 * S.T.O.P. -- Spin Tires On Pavement.
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
* Origin: The Thunderbolt BBS - tbolt.synchro.net (1:19/33)

Hi Marc,

On 2020-02-24 18:28:47, you wrote to me:

SEEN-BY: 31999/99

Since this is the FIDOTEST area: where is that 31999/99 node
number coming from?

Private net. That's the BBS's "node" number since its message base is separate from the main message base. The BBS's messages are scanned for junk and curse words which are edited out with ######'s (GSAR.) Can't do that to EchoMail that gets distributed. Been that way for the last 24 years.

It shouldn't leak into the (fidonet) seen-by's. Others might use the same private net, in which case you are causing problems for them...

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Re: Re: vinyl resting place
By: Wilfred van Velzen to Marc Lewis on Tue Feb 25 2020 10:25:55


MarcL> Private net. That's the BBS's "node" number since its message
MarcL> base is separate from the main message base. The BBS's messages
MarcL> are scanned for junk and curse words which are edited out with
MarcL> ######'s (GSAR.) Can't do that to EchoMail that gets
MarcL> distributed. Been that way for the last 24 years.

It shouldn't leak into the (fidonet) seen-by's.

they have always been in fidonet seenbys because they are fidonet...

Others might use the same private net,

incorrect... the IC assigns private net numbers based on some formula that i cannot find any more... they're also supposed to be listed in the nodelist but i forget the (user?) flag that was used for them... one only needed to search the nodelist for the number to figure out who's it was...

in which case you are causing problems for them...

only those that don't have a proper assigned private net number...


)\/(ark
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)

Hello Wilfred.

<On 25Feb2020 10:25 Wilfred van Velzen (2:280/464) wrote a message to Marc Lewis regarding Re: vinyl resting place >

SEEN-BY: 31999/99

Since this is the FIDOTEST area: where is that 31999/99 node
number coming from?

Private net. That's the BBS's "node" number since its message base is separate from the main message base. The BBS's messages are scanned for junk and curse words which are edited out with ######'s (GSAR.) Can't do that to EchoMail that gets distributed. Been that way for the last 24 years.

It shouldn't leak into the (fidonet) seen-by's. Others might use
the same private net, in which case you are causing problems for
them...

You know, it's been that way for the last 24 years and nobody has ever mentioned or complained about it.

The current complaints, hassles, bru-ha-ha and nonsense over nothing is becoming a bit much to deal with.

This "hobby" is quickly becoming a pain in the neck with a bunch of self-righteous Policy know-it-alls and is no longer a friendly, enjoyable place... Despite my best efforts to help promote a now feeble network that's now roughly 10% its peak size, and the folks associated with it.

This "hobby" is also a moderately costly one, maintaining a fixed IP address (at commercial rate), equipment maintainence/replacment, electricity and so-on. (~ US$100.00/month.)

It is probably time for me to shut everything down, close the BinkP/Mail/FTP and NewsGate machines, the file server, and turn off the BBS/Fido<>Internet gateway machine.

I will come to a decision soon.

Best regards,
Marc

--- timEd/2 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Sursum Corda! BBS-Huntsville,AL-bbs.sursum-corda.com (1:396/45)

Hi Daryl!

24 Feb 2020 10:22, from Daryl Stout -> RICHARD MENEDETTER:

Well, Internet Rex is now crashing in daemon mode

I am holding my fingers crossed you find a solution!

For me personally using a software that reacts in such an erratic way to a config or OS change is simply out of question.
For my definition it is not fit for service!

I will look at setting up BinkP with Synchronet, but right now,
I have medical and financial issues outside the BBS...

Good luck!
Hope the issues dissolve soon!

CU, Ricsi

... Anything good in life is either illegal, immoral, or fattening.
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: Laughter lubes life's engine. (2:310/31)

Hi Marc!

25 Feb 2020 11:42, from Marc Lewis -> Wilfred van Velzen:

This "hobby" is also a moderately costly one, maintaining a fixed IP address (at commercial rate), equipment maintainence/replacment, electricity and so-on. (~ US$100.00/month.)

??? then you do something TERRIBLY wrong!

My fido node runs on my root server that I already have.
(some other things are running there as well like mail, web, etc.)

I pay 7.1 EUR which is less than 10 USD per month.

I get part of a Xeon Server with 2 CPU cores, 6 GB of RAM, 300 GB of RAID10 storage, fixed IPv4 address, fixed /64 IPv6 subnet, and 2 customers share a GBit/s NIC.

I am using https://www.netcup.de but I am sure that there are similarly priced offers in the USA.

I also had a point running on a Raspberry Pi for quit some time.
Any RPi can easily run a mailer, tosser and editor.
It costs 35 USD, and runs on a smartphone powersupply.
(ok ... maybe the new RPi4 needs a bit more juice ...)

There is just one time in my life where I had an elevated electricity bill, that was when I was running a dual Pentium Pro at home.
But that was 20 years ago, and it was worth it to me back then to be able to play with symmetric multiprocessing ;)

CU, Ricsi

... Be quiet until you have something to say. Once you've said it-shut up.
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: Go away you freakish waste of good carbon. (2:310/31)

Hi mark,

On 2020-02-25 11:21:56, you wrote to me:

MarcL>> Private net. That's the BBS's "node" number since its message
MarcL>> base is separate from the main message base. The BBS's messages
MarcL>> are scanned for junk and curse words which are edited out with
MarcL>> ######'s (GSAR.) Can't do that to EchoMail that gets
MarcL>> distributed. Been that way for the last 24 years.

It shouldn't leak into the (fidonet) seen-by's.

they have always been in fidonet seenbys because they are fidonet...

If it's a private net it's not fidonet.

Others might use the same private net,

incorrect... the IC assigns private net numbers based on some formula that i cannot find any more... they're also supposed to be listed in the nodelist but i forget the (user?) flag that was used for them... one only needed to search the nodelist for the number to figure out who's it was...

I've never heard about nor seen such a thing in the nodelist.


Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Re: Re: vinyl resting place
By: Wilfred van Velzen to mark lewis on Tue Feb 25 2020 22:20:10

It shouldn't leak into the (fidonet) seen-by's.

they have always been in fidonet seenbys because they are fidonet...

If it's a private net it's not fidonet.

no, dude... it is one of the old 2D or 3D nets... it is fidonet because the IC assigned those network addresses... they were done from the other end of the numbering system, IIRC, though...

Others might use the same private net,

incorrect... the IC assigns private net numbers based on some formula that i cannot find any more... they're also supposed to be listed in the nodelist but i forget the (user?) flag that was used for them... one only
needed to search the nodelist for the number to figure out who's it was...

I've never heard about nor seen such a thing in the nodelist.

then you're behind the game... we'rer talking about nodelists from the '80s and '90s... they were absolutely a thing because i asked back then what those numbers at the end of the nodelist flags were for... sadly, two system crashes have lost the information i was sent back then but they were absolutely a thing for old software...


)\/(ark
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)

Hello Richard.

<On 25Feb2020 19:24 Richard Menedetter (2:310/31) wrote a message to Marc Lewis regarding Too much hassle. WAS: vinyl resting place >

This "hobby" is also a moderately costly one, maintaining a fixed IP address (at commercial rate), equipment maintainence/replacement, electricity and so-on. (~ US$100.00/month.)

??? then you do something TERRIBLY wrong!

I don't believe so... Allow me to explain.

My fido node runs on my root server that I already have.
(some other things are running there as well like mail, web, etc.)

I pay 7.1 EUR which is less than 10 USD per month.

You're fortunate to live in Europe.

Electricity is expensive here as is Internet service, particularly cable service with a fixed IP. They charge me US$128.00 a month and it only includes the very basic non-premium TV channels. The Internet speed isn't all the fantastic either at 100Mbps down and ~20Mbps up.

The US is quite far behind a lot of countries in a lot of things, I'm sorry to say. And Internet connectivity and speed are one of them.

Best regards,
Marc

... Contentsoftaglinemaysettleduringshipping.
--- timEd/2 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Sursum Corda! BBS-Huntsville,AL-bbs.sursum-corda.com (1:396/45)

Hello Marc!

** 25.02.20 - 11:42, Marc Lewis wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:

The current complaints, hassles, bru-ha-ha and nonsense over nothing is
becoming a bit much to deal with.

Uh oh. It's been a l o o o n g miserable winter for all us. More dailylight, and warmer temps are just a few short weeks ahead.

This "hobby" is quickly becoming a pain in the neck with a bunch of
self-righteous Policy know-it-alls and is no longer a friendly, enjoyable
place..

Money can't buy the people that *do* notice the finer details and actually help others to keep policy and ftsc-stuff relevant. ;)

...Despite my best efforts to help promote a now feeble network
that's now roughly 10% its peak size, and the folks associated with it.

Keep promoting. There are always new people around the corner. I'm
always hoping that this hobby can still attract a new user base. For the majority involved in this hobby, it seems that the 10% that you speak of
are primarily folks facinated in the challenge of getting retro software working on retro equipment (and even the challenge of reviving retro
software on newer gear) and connecting it all to a retro network
technology, and then just push and pull files back and forth. Is that all there is?

The "Year 2038" problem will certainly distrupt the status quo and
introduce a new wave of challenges.

This "hobby" is also a moderately costly one, maintaining a fixed IP
address (at commercial rate), equipment maintainence/replacment,
electricity and so-on. (~ US$100.00/month.)

Is the $100/month the BBS portion? ..or does that include the other personal/business uses you make with internet service? If it's just for
the BBS, that does seem quite a lot for just the BBS hobby.

Virtual hosting (eg. Linode.com) seems practical starting at $5/month. No extra equipment to worry about, fully 24/7, etc.

It is probably time for me to shut everything down, close the
BinkP/Mail/FTP and NewsGate machines, the file server, and turn off the
BBS/Fido<>Internet gateway machine.

Sounds like you are juggling several physical "machines" to move fido
data. Kudos to you!


../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.43
* Origin: If at first you don't succeed, call it Ver 1.0 (2:221/1.58)

Hello mark,

On Tuesday February 25 2020 16:50, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:

they have always been in fidonet seenbys because they are fidonet...

If it's a private net it's not fidonet.

no, dude... it is one of the old 2D or 3D nets... it is fidonet
because the IC assigned those network addresses... they were done from
the other end of the numbering system, IIRC, though...

I take it that by "IC", you mean the sysop that held the 1/0 position in the time before Fidonet was split up in zones? The one that became ZC1 after the creation of zones?

Others might use the same private net,

incorrect... the IC assigns private net numbers based on some
formula that i cannot find any more... they're also supposed to
be listed in the nodelist but i forget the (user?) flag that was
used for them... one only needed to search the nodelist for the
number to figure out who's it was...

As documented where? If it is not documented in an officially recognised Fidonet document, then it is not Fidonet, it is merely something local relic for what is now Z1.

I've never heard about nor seen such a thing in the nodelist.

Neither have I, and I have been around for over three decades... There has never been a coordinated use of fake nets beyond the net level in Fidonet Z2. TTBOMK, the present IC does not maintain such a list.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

On 25 Feb 20 20:02:37, Marc Lewis said the following to Richard Menedetter:

Electricity is expensive here as is Internet service, particularly cable service with a fixed IP. They charge me US$128.00 a month and it only inclu the very basic non-premium TV channels. The Internet speed isn't all the fantastic either at 100Mbps down and ~20Mbps up.

Canada is no better...

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Hello Marc,

On Tuesday February 25 2020 11:42, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:

The current complaints, hassles, bru-ha-ha and nonsense over nothing
is becoming a bit much to deal with.

This "hobby" is quickly becoming a pain in the neck with a bunch of self-righteous Policy know-it-alls and is no longer a friendly,
enjoyable place...

It was YOU who brought Policy into the discussion by claiming P4 says it is kosher to route nemtmail for a RIN via the RC.

This "hobby" is also a moderately costly one, maintaining a fixed IP address (at commercial rate),

You do not need a fixed IP adress to run a Fidonet Mailer or a BBS.

equipment maintainence/replacment, electricity and so-on. (~ US$100.00/month.)

You are doing something wrong...


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hello Daryl,

On Monday February 24 2020 10:19, you wrote to me:

MVDV>> There is no connection at all. So either your binkd is not
MVDV>> running in daem mode or your firewall is not passing incoming on
MVDV>> port 24554. (inclusive or

It is open on the firewall, but now, IREX is constantly crashing in Daemon mode...either because of an update with Microsoft Windows 10,
or because I didn't leave well enough alone.

Irex is buggy. I dumped Irex when there had been no bug fixes in 10 years. The trigger was that I wanted a mailer that could do IPv6 and it was clear that Irex was never going to support it. IIRC that was some seven or eight years ago.

Ires also occasionally crashed on me. I solved it like this:

=== Cut rex.bat ===

:loop
del \fido\sema\*.0
rexw -daemon
choice /C:yn /T:n,5 Quit Rex
if errorlevel 2 goto loop

=== Cut ===

This was for Win95. I do not know if it will run in Win 10

So, I have SHUT DOWN the daemon mode, and will use Internet Rex ONLY during the BBS's nightly maintenance, just after 12 midnight US
Central Time.

So you are running your system as a point.

Those wanting to netmail me, should send FIDONet Netmail
to 1:19/33, but route it through my hub,

You are listed as a Regional Independant, you do not have a Hub or Host through
wich mail mail be routed to you. That is a consequence of being an /independant/.

I will look at implementing the BinkP deal with Synchronet,

Try binkd. It is stable, open source and still maintained. I have been using it
for many years now.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Re: vinyl resting place
By: Michiel van der Vlist to mark lewis on Wed Feb 26 2020 09:21:52

If it's a private net it's not fidonet.

no, dude... it is one of the old 2D or 3D nets... it is fidonet
because the IC assigned those network addresses... they were done
from the other end of the numbering system, IIRC, though...

MvdV> I take it that by "IC", you mean the sysop that held the 1/0
MvdV> position in the time before Fidonet was split up in zones?
MvdV> The one that became ZC1 after the creation of zones?

no, i mean these...

Year International Coordinator From Zone
---- --------------------------------------- ---------------------
1986 Ben Baker (also Z1C) 1 - N. America
1987 Ken Kaplan 1 - N. America
1988 David Dodell (also Z1C & previous Z1C) 1 - N. America
1989 David Dodell (previous Z1C) 1 - N. America
Ken Kaplan 1 - N. America
1990 Matt Whelan 3 - Australia/Oceania
1991 Matt Whelan 3 - Australia/Oceania
1992 Matt Whelan 3 - Australia/Oceania
1993 Matt Whelan 3 - Australia/Oceania
1994 Matt Whelan 3 - Australia/Oceania
George Peace (previous Z1C) 1 - N. America
1995 George Peace (previous Z1C) 1 - N. America
1996 George Peace (previous Z1C) 1 - N. America
1997 George Peace (previous Z1C) 1 - N. America
1998 Vacant
Bob Satti (also Z1C & previous Z1C) 1 - N. America
1999 Bob Satti (previous Z1C) 1 - N. America
2000 Ward Dossche (also Z2C & previous Z2C) 2 - Europe
2001 Ward Dossche (also Z2C & previous Z2C) 2 - Europe
2002 Ward Dossche (also Z2C & previous Z2C) 2 - Europe
2003 Ward Dossche (also Z2C & previous Z2C) 2 - Europe
2004 Ward Dossche (also Z2C & previous Z2C) 2 - Europe
Malcolm Miles (also Z3C & previous Z3C) 3 - Australia/Oceania
2005 Malcolm Miles (also Z3C & previous Z3C) 3 - Australia/Oceania
2006 Malcolm Miles (also Z3C & previous Z3C) 3 - Australia/Oceania
2007 Malcolm Miles (also Z3C & previous Z3C) 3 - Australia/Oceania
2008 Malcolm Miles (also Z3C & previous Z3C) 3 - Australia/Oceania
2009 Malcolm Miles (also Z3C & previous Z3C) 3 - Australia/Oceania
2010 Malcolm Miles (also Z3C & previous Z3C) 3 - Australia/Oceania

Others might use the same private net,

incorrect... the IC assigns private net numbers based on some
formula that i cannot find any more... they're also supposed
to be listed in the nodelist but i forget the (user?) flag
that was used for them... one only needed to search the
nodelist for the number to figure out who's it was...

MvdV> As documented where?

did i not just say that i lost the information i had?

MvdV> If it is not documented in an officially recognised Fidonet
MvdV> document, then it is not Fidonet,

bullshit... there's still a lot of stuff in fidonet that isn't documented and likely never will be because of death and information loss...

MvdV> it is merely something local relic for what is now Z1.

incorrect...

I've never heard about nor seen such a thing in the nodelist.

MvdV> Neither have I, and I have been around for over three decades...

then you haven't been paying attention...

MvdV> There has never been a coordinated use of fake nets beyond the
MvdV> net level in Fidonet Z2.

wait... didn't you just say that you didn't know anything about them? make up your mind, please...

MvdV> TTBOMK, the present IC does not maintain such a list.

is that surprising?


)\/(ark
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)

Hello mark,

On Wednesday February 26 2020 07:38, you wrote to me:

incorrect... the IC assigns private net numbers based on some
formula that i cannot find any more... they're also supposed
to be listed in the nodelist but i forget the (user?) flag
that was used for them... one only needed to search the
nodelist for the number to figure out who's it was...

MvdV>> As documented where?

did i not just say that i lost the information i had?

Official Fidonet documentation is never in the hands of a one single person. So If you were the only one having the infomation, it is not official Fidonet documentation.

MvdV>> If it is not documented in an officially recognised Fidonet
MvdV>> document, then it is not Fidonet,

bullshit...

Bullshit yourself. How, other than by officially documenting it, can we decide what is and what is not part of Fidonet?

there's still a lot of stuff in fidonet that isn't documented and
likely never will be because of death and information loss...

Then it is not, or at least not any more, officially part of Fidonet.

MvdV>> it is merely something local relic for what is now Z1.

incorrect...

So you say, but you are unable to prove it.

I've never heard about nor seen such a thing in the nodelist.

MvdV>> Neither have I, and I have been around for over three decades...

then you haven't been paying attention...

Or it has never been Fidonet wide standard practise...

MvdV>> There has never been a coordinated use of fake nets beyond the
MvdV>> net level in Fidonet Z2.

wait... didn't you just say that you didn't know anything about them?

I did not say I knew nothing about fake nets. What I had never heard of is the IC assigning numbers for them.

make up your mind, please...

I know that in the early days net 500 used 5000 as a fake net for points. This was a net 500 wide coordinated thing. Using 5000 became a problem when net 5000 was assigned for use in Russia. The problem went away when we started using 4D point addressing.

The number 5000 was not assigned by the IC for use as a fake net.

MvdV>> TTBOMK, the present IC does not maintain such a list.

is that surprising?

As maintaining such a list is not part of his documented tasks, it is not surprising.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Marc,

Where Daryl lives there is a great deal of really foul weather, including ML>abundant lightning storms and tornado activity. More than likely you were ML>trying to connect during one of those storm cycles when he takes the system ML>line for obvious reasons.

I have also been under 2 tornadic funnel clouds...within a mile of
an F-1 and an F-4 rain wrapped tornado...am a 2 time lightning strike survivor...and nearly drowned in a flash flood 40 years ago. So, this
time of year (Tornado Season, now getting officially underway), I get
very nervous, and know it means a lot of downtime for the BBS...which
can be several days at a time.

In fact, in June, 2019, a severe thunderstorm with hurricane force
winds, uprooted a tree just up the street from me. It fell on the power
lines, pulling apart the power pole across the street...and ripped the
electric meter off the north side of my house, and messing up the
electric panel box. With no power or air conditioning, it got to over
100 degrees inside the house, and after 1 night in the sauna (which
nearly killed me), I had to spend 2 weeks at a local motel to sleep in
air conditioning, while the insurance company dragged their feet. The
BBS was down for over 2 weeks during that time.

As I posted in another message, no amount of surge protection will
protect you from a direct or close lightning strike. Even the telephone
company notes that "absolute protection from lightning is impossible".
With 3 million volts and 300,000 amps per bolt, which can be only as
wide as your finger, but 5 miles long, yet can strike from 20 to 200
miles from the parent thunderstorm, and is 50,000 degrees Fahrenheit (5
times hotter than the sun's surface), it's no contest.

So, if any of these folks "want to tempt fate", be my guest. Your
entire electronic setup could be consumed in flames, as could your
residence, and if you're on it with the strike, you could be fatally electrocuted.

Daryl

===
þ OLX 1.53 þ Don't you wish Noah had swatted those two mosquitoes??
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
* Origin: The Thunderbolt BBS - tbolt.synchro.net (1:19/33)

Michiel,

I have seen it go from clear skies to tornadoes in as little as 20
minutes, with thunderstorms moving as fast as 90 miles per hour...and
some of those thunderstorms have hail bigger than grapefruit...winds
above hurricane force (75 to well over 100 mph)...and tornadoes (some
over a mile wide)...not to mention intense, if not continuous lightning.

At that speed, and with all its hazards, it gives folks downstream
little time to get to safety. If you are hit by grapefruit sized hail,
or directly hit by lightning, you will likely be killed instantly.

Now, if you're willing to tempt fate and risk a direct hit with a
lightning bolt that has 3 million volts and 300,000 amps, at 50,000
degrees Fahrenheit (5 times hotter than the sun's surface), that can
strike from 20 to 200 miles from the parent thunderstorm (which has been documented)...go for it. I guarantee you that all the surge protection
in the world will NOT protect you or your equipment from a direct
lightning hit. Even the phone company advises that "absolute protection
from lightning is impossible".

One fellow ham radio operator tried that, and the millions of dollars
he spent was for nothing. His tower, mast, antenna, and coaxial cable
were VAPORIZED...there was NOT a trace left. The inside of his UPS surge protection devices...top of the line units...as well as his computer
towers, were as black as night, with the electronic circuit boards
melted and fused together. He even had scorch marks down the walls of
his house. A church in North Little Rock was hit by lightning awhile
back, and it burned the structure to the ground.

I would rather have the BBS down, and nothing happen...than to have it
up, and take a lightning hit. I have seen this stuff first hand...so
your saying that I'm lying about it tells me that you don't know the
first thing about severe weather, including the terminology involved.

I have done severe weather operations nets with amateur radio for
nearly 30 years, at all hours of the day and night. So, while I may not
be an actual meteorologist, I likely know far more than you do about the
power of thunderstorms and weather...including patterns and setups on
when and how these violent storms form. I'm also a certified Skywarn
Severe Storm Spotter with the National Weather Service, and they know
when I call in a report, that it is legitimate. You likely don't even
know what the definition of "reportable criteria" is.

My BBS may be ham radio and weather oriented, but trying to win an
argument with lightning is similar to trying to win an argument with
your wife. I have severe nervous system damage throughout my body, due
to damage from the 2 lightning strikes that I suffered at 3 and 16 years
of age. Many other lightning strike victims suffer the same pain, etc.
as I do...and there are many others who didn't survive the strike.

Speaking of lightning, there were 4 guys in a fishing boat near
Shreveport, Louisiana in May, 1987, on Lake Bisteneau, on a Sunday
morning. A thunderstorm developed over the lake, and one guy stood up,
shook his fist toward Heaven, and dared God to strike him dead. He was
obliged and killed instantly. Now, with the surge of the strike, the
other 3 should've also been instantly killed...but they were totally
unharmed. In other words, that was an example of Divine Judgment, and
Divine Protection in one whack.

Now, if you want "to tempt fate" with lightning or severe weather, be
my guest. You could meet the same fate as the storm chasers in Oklahoma,
who were killed when the large tornado they were chasing, unexpectedly
changed its path, and overtook their vehicle.

At one time, Arkansas was ranked #1 in the United States in the number
of "killer tornadoes" (a tornado that kills at least one person). Some
of the notable tornado events in Arkansas in recent years, include the following (I was in Arkansas for all of these events):

1) December 2 and Christmas Eve, 1982. Portions of west Little Rock
suffered significant damage. The sky turned a dark green, with the large
hail from the tornadic thunderstorm. If you're in or near an area of
large hail, a tornado could be forming very close to you, or already be
on the ground heading your way. By the time you realize it's coming, you
might have time to get a toe tag on, with info of your next of kin on
it...but not much else.

2) January 21, 1999 -- 56 tornadoes in 6 hours. One F-4 tornado passed
within a mile of my home, and barely missed downtown Little Rock. The
same storm with that tornado hit a high school in Beebe, northeast of
Little Rock, where a high school basketball game was in progress.
Thankfully, they were monitoring the amateur radio Skywarn Spotters, and
they stopped the game at halftime...evacuating the school. Thirty
minutes later, the tornado made a direct hit on the school, and gym,
flattening both. The damage near downtown Little Rock was worse than the tornado that hit Arkadelphia and Little Rock not 2 years earlier (noted
below).

3) February 5, 2008 -- an F-4 tornado, on the ground for 122 miles
affected a wide area from west central to northwest and north central
Arkansas. It was the longest length tornado ever recorded in Arkansas.

4) March 1, 1997 -- The I-30 Tornado...striking Arkadelphia, just south

(Continued to next message)
===
þ OLX 1.53 þ DOSSHELL -- Where you go when DOSMOBIL is closed.
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
* Origin: The Thunderbolt BBS - tbolt.synchro.net (1:19/33)

(Continued from previous message)

of Interstate 30 about an hour southwest of Little Rock. It continued
right up the area just south of Interstate 30, hitting Malvern, and
barely missing the Little Rock National Airport.

I can't even watch videos of tornadoes or hurricanes anymore, as they
give me terrifying nightmares.

In short, your claim I'm falsifying the severe weather is nothing but rubbish. Maybe if the shoe goes on the other foot, and you experience
what I've had to go through, then you'll appreciate what I have to
endure every year. Even my FIDONet hub, has had tornadoes in his
area...so, he knows what I'm talking about.

Daryl
===
þ OLX 1.53 þ DOSSHELL -- Where you go when DOSMOBIL is closed.
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
* Origin: The Thunderbolt BBS - tbolt.synchro.net (1:19/33)

Marc,

Private net. That's the BBS's "node" number since its message base is separa ML>from the main message base. The BBS's messages are scanned for junk and curs ML>words which are edited out with ######'s (GSAR.) Can't do that to EchoMail t ML>gets distributed. Been that way for the last 24 years.

The only network I saw a different deal was in the GT Power BBS
Message Network, when I ran dial-up for 13 years (this was when the
network was much bigger than it is now).

In the message networks, systems could link into a particular echo,
but all messages in the echomail areas, went to the system of the ECHO
SPONSOR FIRST. Then, if the SPONSOR felt it was appropriate, or on topic
for the echo, it would be allowed to go out to the rest of the network. Otherwise, the message would be zapped with a utility such as SPOTKILL,
and no one else would see the message.

There is no such deal in FIDONet or the FTN networks. Whenever
something is posted, everyone sees it, through the systems it gets
routed through, and there may be several systems before it reaches the sponsor/moderator. But, if they issue a "feed cut", the offending system
can usually circumnavigate around the feed cut...but it ends up
penalizing the users who play by the rules.

Those screaming "censorship" ignore the fact that it was the sponsor's
echo, so it was his rules. This is the same for every BBS...the Sysop
runs their BBS the way he or she sees fit, persuant of network rules,
and with the permission of their network coordinator. Plus, what users
do outside my BBS is THEIR BUSINESS, but they are a guest in my home at
logon. If they don't want to be civil, and play by my rules, I don't
want them.

There are many days when I'm the only caller, but the BBS is one of
the few hobbies my health will still allow me to do...and I'm doing it
for my enjoyment. I update the ham radio and weather related bulletins,
and do QWK mail, and that's about it. I rarely play the doorgames
anymore.

Daryl

===
þ OLX 1.53 þ Dr. Livingston I. Presume - Dr. Presume's full name.
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
* Origin: The Thunderbolt BBS - tbolt.synchro.net (1:19/33)

On 26/02/2020 3:03 a.m., Daryl Stout : MARC LEWIS wrote:

I have also been under 2 tornadic funnel clouds... within a mile
of an F-1 and an F-4 rain wrapped tornado... am a 2 time
lightning strike survivor... and nearly drowned in a flash flood
40 years ago. So, this time of year (Tornado Season, now getting
officially underway), I get very nervous, and know it means a lot
of downtime for the BBS... which can be several days at a time.

Hi Daryl,

Except for your HAM radio setup, it sounds like it would make more sense
to use a VPS for the BBS. :/ ???

You clearly have a dedicated passion to run the BBS despite the volatile environment.

BTW.. did my routed netmail about "vinyl" reach you?


--
Quoted with Reformator/Quoter. Info = https://tinyurl.com/sxnhuxc

--- TB68.4.1/Win7 (the abbr. string!)
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

Hi Marc!

25 Feb 2020 20:02, from Marc Lewis -> Richard Menedetter:

I pay 7.1 EUR which is less than 10 USD per month.

You're fortunate to live in Europe.

Yes ... I agree.
Fortunate on multiple levels.

But the good news is that you can easily participate.
You buy the service anywhere in the world for the same conditions I get.
So for less than 10 USD you get a full root server.

Electricity is expensive here as is Internet service, particularly
cable service with a fixed IP. They charge me US$128.00 a month and it only includes the very basic non-premium TV channels. The Internet
speed isn't all the fantastic either at 100Mbps down and ~20Mbps up.

Electricity cost is slightly below 20 eurocents per kWh.

Internet service seems to be indeed expensive.
I pay 45 EUR for 100/20 MBit/s and DVB-C TV service.

May I ask where you live?
Rural area or bigger city?

CU, Ricsi

... If you are going to try cross country skiing start with a small country. --- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: Cities, like cats, will reveal themselves at night. (2:310/31)

Hello Daryl,

On Wednesday February 26 2020 02:48, you wrote to me:

I have been a HAM for 55+ years. My call sign is PA0MMV. I know what extreme weather conditions can do, I don't need a lecture on it.

In short, your claim I'm falsifying the severe weather is nothing but rubbish.

I made no such claim. Go back in the thread and read agin. What I falsified was ML's theorie that I tried to connect to your system when it it was off-line because of the storm. I and some others observed that while your binkp server did not respond, your BBS was on-line and responding to incoming calls. So your system was not taken off-line at the time I tried to make a binkp connect.

I am happy tpo report that you seem to have solved the problem:

+ 17:26 [196] call to 1:19/33@fidonet
17:26 [196] trying f33.n19.z1.binkp.net [71.238.137.238]...
17:26 [196] connected
+ 17:26 [196] outgoing session with f33.n19.z1.binkp.net:24554 [71.238.137.238] - 17:26 [196] OPT CRAM-MD5-06a63eed5e99268273a8aec163cf7c34 CRYPT
+ 17:26 [196] Remote requests MD mode
+ 17:26 [196] Remote requests CRYPT mode
- 17:26 [196] SYS The Thunderbolt BBS
- 17:26 [196] ZYZ Daryl Stout
- 17:26 [196] LOC Little Rock, Arkansas
- 17:26 [196] NDL 115200,TCP,BINKP
- 17:26 [196] TIME Fri Feb 28 2020 10:26:28 GMT-0600 (Central Standard Time)
- 17:26 [196] VER BinkIT/2.28,JSBinkP/1.122,sbbs3.17c/Win32 binkp/1.1
+ 17:26 [196] addr: 1:19/33@fidonet

Congratulations.

There are a few problems remaining.

? 17:26 [196] Cannot find domain for zone 432, assuming 'fidonet'
+ 17:26 [196] addr: 432:1/112@fidonet
+ 17:26 [196] addr: 801:1/2@rdwxnet (n/a or busy)
? 17:26 [196] Cannot find domain for zone 59, assuming 'fidonet'
+ 17:26 [196] addr: 59:59/4@fidonet
? 17:26 [196] Cannot find domain for zone 618, assuming 'fidonet'
+ 17:26 [196] addr: 618:200/20@fidonet

Does not affect me, I have no AKAs in those zones...

Even my FIDONet hub, has had tornadoes in his area...so, he knows what
I'm talking about.

You are a RIN. You do not have a Fidonet hub.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

You are a RIN. You do not have a Fidonet hub.

What is a RIN?

Thanks!


* SLMR 2.1a * 9 out of 10 men who try camels prefer women.
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

Hello Mike,

You are a RIN. You do not have a Fidonet hub.

What is a RIN?

Daryl is a regional independent node in region 19. He doesn't belong to a net, probably because there isn't one in his area.

Ttyl :-),
Al

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hello Mike,

On Friday February 28 2020 17:16, you wrote to me:

You are a RIN. You do not have a Fidonet hub.

What is a RIN?

Region Independant Node.

A node that is not a member of a local network, but listed directly under the RC.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hello Alan,

On Friday February 28 2020 16:34, you wrote to Mike Powell:

Daryl is a regional independent node in region 19. He doesn't belong
to a net, probably because there isn't one in his area.

Local nets are based on "areas of convenient telephone calling". In the POTS age this usually meant an area where all could call each other by making a local call. Derived from the "prime directive" of not "imposing undue cost on others".

http://www.vlist.eu/downloads/policys/POLICY4.TXT

In the age of Fido over IP, it no longer makes sense to limit nets to the relatively small area of a classic local POTS call. Nets can now cover a much larger geographical area without violating the prime directive of not imposing undue cost on others.

The logical thing to do is to blow up the existing local nets so that together they cover the entire region.

No more need for RINs.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hello August.

<On 25Feb2020 22:58 August Abolins (2:221/1.58) wrote a message to Marc Lewis regarding Too much hassle. WAS: vinyl resting place >

[snip]

This "hobby" is also a moderately costly one, maintaining a fixed IP
address (at commercial rate), equipment maintainence/replacement,
electricity and so-on. (~ US$100.00/month.)

Is the $100/month the BBS portion? ..or does that include the other
personal/business uses you make with internet service? If it's
just for the BBS, that does seem quite a lot for just the BBS
hobby.

It breaks down to running 3 machine (2 - OS/2 and 1 Windows (for NewsGate). Electricity breaks down to roughly $35/mon for the 3 machine plus $128 month for internet connectivity (which includes very basic TV channels - nothing premium) with a fixed IP address ($15 surcharge included in the $128).

Virtual hosting (eg. Linode.com) seems practical starting at
$5/month. No extra equipment to worry about, fully 24/7, etc.

Works with current OSes; not with OS/2 unfortunately. This system of machines is now approaching 20+ years of age, though one has had a MB upgrade. The fairly large group of batch and .cmd files that make it work, some date back to almost day one - and they're still working quite well with occasional tweaks to try and improve some small facets of it. It's been a labour of love, so to speak.

Now-a-day systems like Synchronet (which is quite a piece of programming) are virtually an all-in-one package; not so with old systems like mine with Maximus/2, Squish, SEAL, NEF and a host of other programs including IRex and VModem and Binkley/2 to make it work... 100% of which are no longer developed/supported.

It is probably time for me to shut everything down, close the
BinkP/Mail/FTP and NewsGate machines, the file server, and turn off the
BBS/Fido<>Internet gateway machine.

Sounds like you are juggling several physical "machines" to move
fido data. Kudos to you!

Indeed - 3 of them plus my laptop. Thanks for the kudos, August.

I still have not come to a decision.

BTW, Daryl Stout (1:19/33) has taken his system off-line for the time being due to an Internet Rex crash that he's not been able to resolve.

Best regards,
Marc

... NIXON'S LAW: If two wrongs don't make a right, try three.
--- timEd/2 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Sursum Corda! BBS-Huntsville,AL-bbs.sursum-corda.com (1:396/45)

Hello Richard.

<On 27Feb2020 17:21 Richard Menedetter (2:310/31) wrote a message to Marc Lewis regarding Too much hassle. WAS: vinyl resting place >

I pay 7.1 EUR which is less than 10 USD per month.

You're fortunate to live in Europe.

Yes ... I agree.
Fortunate on multiple levels.

But the good news is that you can easily participate.
You buy the service anywhere in the world for the same conditions I
get. So for less than 10 USD you get a full root server.

As I mentioned in another reply to August Abolins, regrettably that won't work for me running OS/2... An ancient system that has, for the *most* part been very stable.

Electricity is expensive here as is Internet service, particularly
cable service with a fixed IP. They charge me US$128.00 a month and it only includes the very basic non-premium TV channels. The Internet
speed isn't all the fantastic either at 100Mbps down and ~20Mbps up.

Electricity cost is slightly below 20 eurocents per kWh.

Internet service seems to be indeed expensive.
I pay 45 EUR for 100/20 MBit/s and DVB-C TV service.

May I ask where you live?
Rural area or bigger city?

I live in a moderately large urban area. We have 1 cable provider plus an apparently failed Google gigabit service (never installed) plus AT&T high speed service which wants full commercial business rate to provide a fixed IP address (as does my cable company.) And to top it off, AT&T's service is reputed to be undependable at best. There is, for all intents and purposes, no competition. Both providers are preposterously expensive. As a whole, the entire United States is so far behind the high-speed internet curve that it's ridiculous, with some areas having virtually zero high-speed connectivity. Maddening. Big companies that want to over charge you for blatantly mediocre service.

Best regards,
Marc

... I am DOS of Borg! Prepare... oops, out of memory!
--- timEd/2 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Sursum Corda! BBS-Huntsville,AL-bbs.sursum-corda.com (1:396/45)

Marc Lewis wrote:

As I mentioned in another reply to August Abolins, regrettably that
won't work for me running OS/2... An ancient system that has, for the
*most* part been very stable.

I virtualized my very old running OS/2 computer about year or two ago. It is running under VMWare now, and it is very stable. No phone lines, no special hardware, so it was quite painless conversion. Might be possible to run it in a VPS too, but I haven't tried.

'Tommi

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.53.1
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

I virtualized my very old running OS/2 computer about year or two ago. It is

running under VMWare now, and it is very stable. No phone lines, no special hardware, so it was quite painless conversion. Might be possible to run it i

VPS too, but I haven't tried.

I never got ArcaOS or ECS to virtualize properly under VMWare, which is
why I use VirtualBox to handle that.

... Mandatory Tagline omitted. Moderator gone berserk. Story at 11:00.
--- Wildcat! v8.0.454.9 (Nov 22 2019), Editor Mod v2.1
* Origin: Lean Angle BBS * Southaven MS * winserver.org (1:116/17)

Hello Michiel,

Local nets are based on "areas of convenient telephone calling". In
the POTS age this usually meant an area where all could call each
other by making a local call. Derived from the "prime directive" of
not "imposing undue cost on others".

That was an essential thing back in the '90s.

http://www.vlist.eu/downloads/policys/POLICY4.TXT

In the age of Fido over IP, it no longer makes sense to limit nets to
the relatively small area of a classic local POTS call. Nets can now
cover a much larger geographical area without violating the prime directive of not imposing undue cost on others.

That's true from a technical point of view. Region 10 has net 218 that looks like a catch all net for nodes from all over the region.

The logical thing to do is to blow up the existing local nets so that together they cover the entire region.

Technically we could do that.. but why?

I like to be part of a network. If we blow up the existing nets we all become RINs or perhaps form one single net in the region. I see no reason to do that.

No more need for RINs.

I don't know how or why some nodes are RIN. At the end of the day I don't think it matters much if those nodes are RIN or part of a net. If that works for them and their RC more power to them.

Ttyl :-),
Al

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hi Marc!

29 Feb 2020 14:51, from Marc Lewis -> Richard Menedetter:

But the good news is that you can easily participate.
You buy the service anywhere in the world for the same conditions
I get. So for less than 10 USD you get a full root server.

As I mentioned in another reply to August Abolins, regrettably that
won't work for me running OS/2... An ancient system that has, for the *most* part been very stable.

You can always adopt later software.
My node runs natively under Linux, works great.

But you can also migrate your existing software to a virtualized environment. Just install some VMWares or virtual Boxes on your root server.
You have more than enogh RAM and CPU to do so.

Do not take it personally but running 3 ancient PCs 24/7 is really STUPID!
They use huge amounts of electricity and the performance you get in return is laughable.
And reliability is also very bad for so old hardware!

AT&T high speed service which wants full commercial business rate
to provide a fixed IP address (as does my cable company.)

Why do you need a fixed IP??
You can always use DynDNS.
Or even better outsource those tasks to your root server with a fixed IPv4 and IPv6 address!

Absolutely no need for a fixed IP!

CU, Ricsi

... Be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slower to become angry.
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: Theasaurus - A smart Dinosaur with a good vocabulary. (2:310/31)

Hello Alan,

On Saturday February 29 2020 23:22, you wrote to me:

Local nets are based on "areas of convenient telephone calling".
In the POTS age this usually meant an area where all could call
each other by making a local call. Derived from the "prime
directive" of not "imposing undue cost on others".

That was an essential thing back in the '90s.

"was", past tense...

http://www.vlist.eu/downloads/policys/POLICY4.TXT

In the age of Fido over IP, it no longer makes sense to limit
nets to the relatively small area of a classic local POTS call.
Nets can now cover a much larger geographical area without
violating the prime directive of not imposing undue cost on
others.

That's true from a technical point of view. Region 10 has net 218 that looks like a catch all net for nodes from all over the region.

A "catch all" is a solution, but it is not what I had in mind.

The logical thing to do is to blow up the existing local nets so
that together they cover the entire region.

Technically we could do that.. but why?

To avoid the situation that "all sysops are equal, but some are more equal than others".

I like to be part of a network. If we blow up the existing nets we all become RINs or perhaps form one single net in the region. I see no
reason to do that.

That is not what I had in mind. I did not mean to blow up the nets until each of them covers the Region. I meant blowing them up so that the empty spaces bewteen the nets are filled and the nets together cover the region. (without overlap).

No more need for RINs.

I don't know how or why some nodes are RIN. At the end of the day I
don't think it matters much if those nodes are RIN or part of a net.

It creates situations where "some are more equal than others"...

If that works for them and their RC more power to them.

Fidonet was designes as a peer to peer network. Things should work for all, not just for some.

Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

On 29 Feb 2020, Alan Ianson said the following...

I like to be part of a network. If we blow up the existing nets we all become RINs or perhaps form one single net in the region. I see no

I think he meant blow up as in, increase in size physical size. So that
there's no "empty space" between them and that would take care of the former region independents, IDK, I could have misread it.

-=>Richard Miles<=-
-=>Captain Obvious<=-
-=>bbs.shadowscope.com<=-

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/02/29 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Shadowscope BBS | bbs.shadowscope.com | Temple, GA (1:3634/24)

Hello Michiel,

The logical thing to do is to blow up the existing local nets so
that together they cover the entire region.

Technically we could do that.. but why?

To avoid the situation that "all sysops are equal, but some are more
equal than others".

We are all equal. We are all nodes.

Human beings are all human beings. Each one has strengths and weaknesses. We need to be carefull to put the load on points of the network that can bear the weight. If we put the load on a weak point it may fail.

That is not what I had in mind. I did not mean to blow up the nets
until each of them covers the Region. I meant blowing them up so that
the empty spaces bewteen the nets are filled and the nets together
cover the region. (without overlap).

There is room for improvement in the way fidonet works, always has been and probably always will be.

I don't know how or why some nodes are RIN. At the end of the day
I don't think it matters much if those nodes are RIN or part of a
net.

It creates situations where "some are more equal than others"...

If that works for them and their RC more power to them.

Fidonet was designes as a peer to peer network. Things should work for all, not just for some.

In a perfect world no one would be poor/sick/wanting/needing/hungry/hurting, but it's not a perfect world.

There's a certain amount of that in the Fidonet world also. I do the best I can to run a good and stable node and support the nodes around me.

It's also true that I have had plenty of support from the nodes around me.

Ttyl :-),
Al

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

No more need for RINs.

I don't know how or why some nodes are RIN. At the end of the day I don't think it matters much if those nodes are RIN or part of a net.

It creates situations where "some are more equal than others"...

How? When all is said and done, I don't see how it makes a difference, or
why it would be any of my business why one region does things different
than the other. It does not appear to cause any issues.


* SLMR 2.1a * This tagline is property of Oaks Correctional Facility
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

Hello Richard.

<On 01Mar2020 09:47 Richard Menedetter (2:310/31) wrote a message to Marc Lewis regarding Too much hassle. WAS: vinyl resting place >

Why do you need a fixed IP??
You can always use DynDNS.
Or even better outsource those tasks to your root server with a
fixed IPv4 and IPv6 address!

Absolutely no need for a fixed IP!

Explain how to run a mail server and an FTP server without a fixed IP. Keep in mind I'm in the USofA where most internet providers are draconian with their rules about running *any* kind of server on their consumer grade variable IP "lines". Particularly SMTP and FTP.

Best regards,
Marc

... Ninety-five percent of the lawyers give the other five percent a bad name. --- timEd/2 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Sursum Corda! BBS-Huntsville,AL-bbs.sursum-corda.com (1:396/45)

Hello Richard,

On Sunday March 01 2020 05:57, you wrote to Alan Ianson:

I think he meant blow up as in, increase in size physical size. So
that there's no "empty space" between them

That's indeed what I meant.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Mike Powell wrote to MICHIEL VAN DER VLIST <=-

What is a RIN?

Region Independent Node: nodes that are not in a net but within a region. I have been one since 2000 (at least).

Later,
Sean

___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Outpost BBS * bbs.outpostbbs.net:10123 (1:18/200)

Re: Re: Too much hassle. WAS: vinyl resting place
By: Marc Lewis to Richard Menedetter on Sun Mar 01 2020 17:59:20

Absolutely no need for a fixed IP!

MarcL> Explain how to run a mail server and an FTP server without a fixed IP.

for all the years i've been running my BBS setup and had it connected to the internet, i've never ever had, used, or paid for a static IP... i've always just used my DDNS domain name that i set up with domain name providers like dynip.com, dyndns.com, and others...

originally i used free services but then switched to a paid service from a canadian company... today, i do the same thing but now i'm using a service provided for free by another sysop... yes, these services need to be updated with your IP whenever it changes but that's no problem and they run with very short TTL values so the new IP propogates over the 'net pretty quickly...

i've always used an updater program to handle the IP updates and "i'm alive" messages for my system... originally on the machine making the PPP connection and later just on one of the machines in my network... the DDNS server is/was smart enough to know the proper IP number to use to update my domain pointer... then any time i set up another domain, i generally just set a CNAME to my DDNS name...

i've never had a MX record nor have i run bind or any similar DNS server other than when experimenting... when sending email, i've always configured my ISP as my ""smarthost"" and let them handle delivering the email to the destination... these days you can contract with a service for things like this... one example is having google handle your (sub-)domain's emails which your machine(s) can then retrieve via various means...

when running multiple sub-domains, i've always been able to set up a "wildcard domain" with my DDNS provider so that anything.my.domain.name was all directed to my WAN IP... this was fine for my web servers as i use one as a frontend server and let it reverse proxy to the others based on the name in the http header... for email, all email is handled by a frontend SMTP server which grabs email for itself and sends all other email to an internal SMTP server with the smarts to know where to send those emails or to bounce the message back to the sender... this all works fine for the most part but some things, like FTP cannot be done like this... in the case of FTP when i absolutely had to have files hosted for more than one domain, i've used the destination server's name in the path...

eg:
/sub-domain1/*
/sub-domain2/*

so that way i had one FTP server that could handle the files for my sub-domains...

other things, like having multiple IRC servers, were handled with different ports and forwarding them to those machines... it worked well enough for this hobby ;)


)\/(ark
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)

Hi Marc!

01 Mar 2020 17:59, from Marc Lewis -> Richard Menedetter:

Why do you need a fixed IP??
You can always use DynDNS.
Or even better outsource those tasks to your root server with a
fixed IPv4 and IPv6 address!

Explain how to run a mail server and an FTP server without a fixed IP.

By using Dynamic DNS as explained above.

Keep in mind I'm in the USofA where most internet providers are
draconian with their rules about running *any* kind of server on their consumer grade variable IP "lines". Particularly SMTP and FTP.

Hence buy a cheap residential Internet service, and do the server stuff on a cheap root server.
Net win on all fronts, especially reliablity and cost.

CU, Ricsi

... It's the net: clarity and depth of thought are totally out of place.
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: All true wisdom is found in taglines. (2:310/31)

Hello Alan,

On Sunday March 01 2020 10:39, you wrote to me:

Technically we could do that.. but why?

To avoid the situation that "all sysops are equal, but some are
more equal than others".

We are all equal. We are all nodes.

Alas, the facts do not support that presumption. Nodes in a local network and RINs do not enjoy the same lever of equalness. :-(

o P4 imposes restrictions on RINs and ZINs. Mail to them may not be default routed f.e.

o In a PC against a RIN, there is one level of appeal less than in a PC against an member of a local network. This makes RINs unequal to members of a local network.

o Some seem to consider it a status symbol. OTOH, some sysops are forced into RIN or ZIN status because no one wants them in their network. Both occasions do not help maintain the fiction that all are equal.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hello Michiel,

We are all equal. We are all nodes.

Alas, the facts do not support that presumption. Nodes in a local
network and RINs do not enjoy the same lever of equalness. :-(

o P4 imposes restrictions on RINs and ZINs. Mail to them may not be default routed f.e.

o In a PC against a RIN, there is one level of appeal less than in a
PC against an member of a local network. This makes RINs unequal to members of a local network.

This is a shortcoming of P4. If we can ever get back to policy perhaps we can address some of these weaknesses so all nodes will in fact be equal.

o Some seem to consider it a status symbol. OTOH, some sysops are
forced into RIN or ZIN status because no one wants them in their
network. Both occasions do not help maintain the fiction that all are equal.

This is another shortcoming either in P4 or general Fido think. NCs have a responsibility to maintain their network and nodelist segment, not to maintain a list of who is naughty and nice, or who is in or who is out.

Ttyl :-),
Al

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hello Alan,

On Monday March 02 2020 16:47, you wrote to me:

o In a PC against a RIN, there is one level of appeal less than
in a PC against an member of a local network. This makes RINs
unequal to members of a local network.

This is a shortcoming of P4. If we can ever get back to policy perhaps
we can address some of these weaknesses so all nodes will in fact be equal.

Apart from the fact that it seems to be ompossible to change P4, I do not see this as a shortcoming of P4, it is a consequence of the hierrachy. I fail to see what changes in P4 would remedie this.

On the contrary, P4 covers it. The unequality is a result of coordinators FAILING to properly follow P4. Look at this:

=== quote ===

5 Regional Coordinator Procedures

5.1 Responsibilities

A Regional Coordinator has the following responsibilities:

1) To assign node numbers to independent nodes in the region.

2) To encourage independent nodes in the region to join existing net-
works, or to form new networks.

3) To assign network numbers to networks in the region and define their
boundaries.

=== end quote ===

And also:

=== quote ===

5.3 Encouraging the Formation and Growth of Networks

One of your main duties as a Regional Coordinator is to promote the growth of networks in your region.

You should avoid having independent nodes in your region which are within the coverage area of a network. There are, however, certain cases where a node should not be a member of a network, such as a system with a large amount of inbound netmail; see section 4.2.

If several independent nodes in your region are in a local area you should encourage them to form a network, and if necessary you may require them to
form a network. Refer to section 2.4. Note that this is not intended to

=== end quote ===

So... RCs that still have RINs in their region have failed in their duty to encourage them to join local networks. They have failed in their duty to redefine the bouderies of existing networks so that they meet the present condition of "areas of convenient calling".

P4 offers all the tools to get rid of the unequality by getting rid of he RINs and accomodate them in local networks. The coordinators just fail to use those tools.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

On Mar 05, 2020 12:35pm, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Alan Ianson:

Hi Michiel,

MvdV> P4 offers all the tools to get rid of the unequality by getting rid
MvdV> of he RINs and accomodate them in local networks. The coordinators
MvdV> just fail to use those tools.

This is only true if the node agrees to move, the RC shouldn't force a node,
he should only encourage a node. So because we have RINs doesn't mean the RC has failed, it's just your perception, you don't have all the facts to make that call.

Just my perception.

Terry

Terry Roati

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! https://tfb-bbs.org (3:640/1321) (3:640/1321)

Hello Terry,

On Friday March 06 2020 08:54, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> P4 offers all the tools to get rid of the unequality by getting
MvdV>> rid of he RINs and accomodate them in local networks. The
MvdV>> coordinators just fail to use those tools.

This is only true if the node agrees to move, the RC shouldn't force a node, he should only encourage a node.

P4 says "encourage" but it says nothing about the size of the carrot or the size of the stick. The use of the word "require" in 5.3 third paragrph clearly indicates that there /is/ a stick. The RC is responsible for the smooth operation of the region. The RC should balance the wishes of individual sysops against that. In a conflict the smooth operation of the network comes first.

So because we have RINs doesn't mean the RC has failed,

My comment was in response to Ian's statement that it is a shortcoming in P4. I say that while P4 has many shortcomings, the inability to get rid of RINs is not one of them. P4 offers the tools to move RINs to local networks. It that does not happen, it is not due to a shortcoming of P4, bur to the failure of the RC to use the tools at hand.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

On Mar 07, 2020 09:13am, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Terry Roati:

Hello Michiel,

MvdV> P4 says "encourage" but it says nothing about the size of the carrot
MvdV> or the size of the stick. The use of the word "require" in 5.3 third
MvdV> paragrph clearly indicates that there /is/ a stick. The RC is
MvdV> responsible for the smooth operation of the region. The RC should
MvdV> balance the wishes of individual sysops against that. In a conflict
MvdV> the smooth operation of the network comes first.

The phrase is "require if necessary" so ONLY the RC can decide if it's necessary, so it's possible different RC's will handle it differently but in most cases if it isn't causing a problem in the region then they are unlikely to do anything.

MvdV> My comment was in response to Ian's statement that it is a
MvdV> shortcoming in P4. I say that while P4 has many shortcomings, the
MvdV> inability to get rid of RINs is not one of them. P4 offers the tools
MvdV> to move RINs to local networks. It that does not happen, it is not
MvdV> due to a shortcoming of P4, bur to the failure of the RC to use the
MvdV> tools at hand.

It is up to the RC to decide, so what you or I think doesn't matter unless we are in that Region maybe.

As time goes on I see a few shortcomings with P4 but it is highly unlikely to get a change as you know. I beleive the only way to change P4 is one small
step at a time.



Terry Roati

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! https://tfb-bbs.org (3:640/1321) (3:640/1321)

Hello Terry,

On Saturday March 07 2020 22:41, you wrote to me:
MvdV>> stick. The RC is responsible for the smooth operation of the
MvdV>> region. The RC should balance the wishes of individual sysops
MvdV>> against that. In a conflict the smooth operation of the network
MvdV>> comes first.

The phrase is "require if necessary" so ONLY the RC can decide if it's necessary,

I disagree that only the RC can decide. In the past RCs have received decrees from ZCs.

But that is not the point. The point is that the RC /CAN/ decide it is necessary. It is not a shortcoming of P4 that stops him/her from eliminating RINs.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hello Michiel,

On the contrary, P4 covers it. The unequality is a result of
coordinators FAILING to properly follow P4. Look at this:

It's a case of the large print giveth, and the small print taketh away. It's a bureaucracy.

That's what P4 creates although we need some kind of guidance I guess P4 is better than nothing.

In spite of that I still think we are all nodes and all equal.

It would be handy if P4 didn't chip away at that.

Ttyl :-),
Al

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

On Mar 07, 2020 02:47pm, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Terry Roati:

Hi Michiel,

MvdV> I disagree that only the RC can decide. In the past RCs have received
MvdV> decrees from ZCs.

I will take your word fot it, but I doubt if they would now unless it was a
big problem.

MvdV> But that is not the point. The point is that the RC /CAN/ decide it is
MvdV> necessary. It is not a shortcoming of P4 that stops him/her from
MvdV> eliminating RINs.

Totally agree.



Terry Roati

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! https://tfb-bbs.org (3:640/1321) (3:640/1321)

On 06 Mar 2020, Terry Roati said the following...

* Origin: The File Bank BBS! https://tfb-bbs.org (3:640/1321)

^^^^^^^^^^^^
Just an FYI, PX puts this in for your automatically. You don't need to
type this into your origin line. :)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/03/04 (Linux/64)
* Origin: New Mystic BBS (1:261/20)

Thanks for that.

On Mar 06, 2020 01:28pm, Robert Wolfe wrote to Terry Roati:

On 06 Mar 2020, Terry Roati said the following...

* Origin: The File Bank BBS! https://tfb-bbs.org (3:640/1321)

^^^^^^^^^^^^
Just an FYI, PX puts this in for your automatically. You don't need
to type this into your origin line. :)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/03/04 (Linux/64)
* Origin: New Mystic BBS (1:261/20)

Terry Roati

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! https://tfb-bbs.org (3:640/1321) (3:640/1321)

Sean,

He knows as much about severe weather as you do. Don't waste your time.

We've had nearly nonstop days of thunderstorms and severe weather here lately...although compared to Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama, we've
only got "a glancing blow" as it were. But, with a constant threat of thunderstorms, it made no sense to do any BBS work. Florida may be the lightning capitol of the world, but Arkansas has to be a close second.

The other night, I was texting this woman and her boyfriend...they
both have an 11 year old dachshund (weiner dog), who considers me his uncle...but can't figure out why I won't sneak him extra treats. <G>
Yet, he has one of those "thunder shirts", which has "a calming effect"
for him. When he climbs up on the back of the couch, his owners know
stormy weather is coming. The dachshund Janice and I had would wrap
himself around her head, like a wig, when thunderstorms were in the
area.

I think my problem with Internet Rex is fixed (I got with my FIDONet
hub, Marc Lewis, last night), and since bringing the BBS up last night,
daemon mode hasn't crashed out. I suspect Microsoft Windows Update is to
blame. And, speaking of which, it's the "second Tuesday" as I type
this...but mail won't go out until Friday on the FTN side, so the
nodelists can be updated, with removing the CM flag for me. With all
this rain, we don't have to worry about water rationing or fire danger.

Daryl

===
þ OLX 1.53 þ Ever stop to think, and forget to start again??
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Daryl Stout wrote to SEAN DENNIS <=-

We've had nearly nonstop days of thunderstorms and severe weather
here lately...although compared to Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama, we've only got "a glancing blow" as it were. But, with a constant
threat of thunderstorms, it made no sense to do any BBS work. Florida
may be the lightning capitol of the world, but Arkansas has to be a
close second.

It's like March here: cold and rainy. It's cold enough to make my arthritis remind me it's there. What stinks is that since I am on Eliquis, I can't
take ibuprofen to help with the pain. Tylenol doesn't work as well with me
on joint pain as ibuprofen does.

The dachshund Janice and I had would wrap
himself around her head, like a wig, when thunderstorms were in the
area.

My parents' younger dog, a Texas Heeler, does that with her fleece blanket.

I think my problem with Internet Rex is fixed (I got with my FIDONet hub, Marc Lewis, last night), and since bringing the BBS up last night, daemon mode hasn't crashed out. I suspect Microsoft Windows Update is
to blame.

That would not surprise me at all. You that last update bricked a lot of computers and just started deleting things at random with others? When I supported Windows professionally, Windows drove me nuts with breaking things after an update. I was in charge of 1800 computers by myself at one time.
It was insanity at its finest but the good thing was the company I was with
at the time had some sort of top-tier support with MS so I could call MS directly if something really started smoking--and occasionally a computer would!

And, speaking of which, it's the "second Tuesday" as I type
this...but mail won't go out until Friday on the FTN side, so the nodelists can be updated, with removing the CM flag for me. With all
this rain, we don't have to worry about water rationing or fire danger.

Do me a favor and email me at sysop@outpostbbs.net when you get this. Want
to talk to you about an idea with your mail setup that might help in other places (ahem, coughcough). ;)

Later,
Sean

... Reality is for people who can't face science fiction.
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

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