• Norway Way

    From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to ALL on Thu Oct 14 00:31:06 2021
    Hello Everybody,

    Who needs guns when there are other options available?

    BREAKING NEWS

    Several people were killed and others injured in a Norwegian town
    by a man using a bow and arrows, the police said. A suspect is in
    custody.
    Wednesday, October 13, 2021 4:27 PM EST

    The attack took place in Kongsberg, a town of 26,000 people about
    50 miles outside Oslo.

    “The information we now have, this person carried out these actions
    alone,” the police chief told reporters.

    source: The New York Times

    --Lee

    --
    We're Great In Bed
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  • From Bjrn Felten@2:203/2 to Lee Lofaso on Thu Oct 14 01:08:32 2021
    Who needs guns when there are other options available?

    Imagine what would have happened if the guy had an AR-15 -- the preferred "gun" in the US...

    I wonder if that's the weapon your founding fathers had in mind, when they granted guns to "A Well Regulated Militia" -- apparently everybody in the US?

    ..

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  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Bj÷rn Felten on Wed Oct 13 20:42:00 2021
    Bjrn Felten wrote to Lee Lofaso <=-

    Who needs guns when there are other options available?

    Imagine what would have happened if the guy had an AR-15 --
    the preferred "gun" in the US...

    It's not "preferred" by everyone. I have many guns that I prefer over
    that one, although it's not bad for what it is.

    I wonder if that's the weapon your founding fathers had in
    mind, when they granted guns to "A Well Regulated Militia" --
    apparently everybody in the US?

    Well, that's pretty silly, since they didn't know about such a gun at
    that time. But, you see, that's the point. They didn't need to know.
    Yes, it's everybody (actual US citizens anyway) in the USA.

    Now you know!



    ... Smith & Wesson: The ORIGINAL point-and-click interface.
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  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Dan Clough on Thu Oct 14 06:06:00 2021
    when they granted guns to "A Well Regulated Militia" --
    apparently everybody in the US?

    Yes, it's everybody (actual US citizens anyway) in the USA.

    Interesting. So every US citizen belongs to a well regulated militia? How come then, that there's a mass shooting almost every day? Doesn't seem to be especially well regulated then...


    ..
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  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Björn Felten on Thu Oct 14 07:31:00 2021
    Bjrn Felten wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    when they granted guns to "A Well Regulated Militia" --
    apparently everybody in the US?

    Yes, it's everybody (actual US citizens anyway) in the USA.

    Interesting. So every US citizen belongs to a well regulated
    militia? How come then, that there's a mass shooting almost every
    day? Doesn't seem to be especially well regulated then...

    Mass shootings are done by criminals. Criminals, by definition, are not
    well regulated. Passing more laws to attempt to fix the issue is quite
    silly, because (again) criminals, by definition, do not follow (or care
    about) laws.

    Your attempt to tie the 2nd Amendment to mass shooting events .......
    has failed.


    ... A Smith & Wesson *ALWAYS* beats 4 Aces.
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  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Dan Clough on Thu Oct 14 14:55:44 2021
    Mass shootings are done by criminals. Criminals, by definition, are not well regulated.

    So why are they allowed to buy guns then, often without even performing a background check?



    ..

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  • From Oli@2:280/464.47 to Dan Clough on Thu Oct 14 17:23:26 2021
    Dan wrote (2021-10-14):

    Mass shootings are done by criminals. Criminals, by definition, are not well regulated.

    Mass shootings are (mostly) done by US Americans. US Americans, by observation, are (emotionally) not well regulated.

    * Origin: 1995| Invention of the Cookie. The End. (2:280/464.47)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Björn Felten on Thu Oct 14 14:17:00 2021
    Bjrn Felten wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Mass shootings are done by criminals. Criminals, by definition, are not well regulated.

    So why are they allowed to buy guns then, often without even
    performing a background check?

    They often/usually steal them, or buy them from other criminals.


    ... Nothing is so smiple that it can't get screwed up.
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  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Oli on Thu Oct 14 14:28:00 2021
    Oli wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Mass shootings are done by criminals. Criminals, by definition, are not well regulated.

    Mass shootings are (mostly) done by US Americans. US Americans,
    by observation, are (emotionally) not well regulated.

    Oh! Aren't you clever!

    ...<YAWN>...



    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
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  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Kurt Weiske on Fri Oct 15 01:36:50 2021
    There's a mental health crisis in this country, and two political parties that don't want to spend political capital to try and fix things.

    There was an interesting article in WaPo a couple of days ago, asking "How dumb can a nation get and still survive?". I guess we are about to find out rather soon...? 8-)



    ..

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  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Kurt Weiske on Thu Oct 14 20:40:00 2021
    Kurt Weiske wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Dan Clough wrote to Bjrn Felten <=-

    Imagine what would have happened if the guy had an AR-15 --
    the preferred "gun" in the US...

    It's not "preferred" by everyone. I have many guns that I prefer over that one, although it's not bad for what it is.

    I'm old school - I would love to get an M1 Garand or M1 carbine,

    They are still sold by the Civilian Marksmanship Program. There are eligibility requirements, and availability is quite varied, but it is possible. I got one from them a few years back and it is a joy to
    behold (and shoot). Same story on the Carbine, which I don't have but
    would like to get.

    More info here: https://thecmp.org/sales-and-service/m1-garand/

    the rifle I'm sorry I missed when they were dirt cheap on the
    surplus market is the Moisin Nagant. Seems they've got up in
    price significantly.

    Yes, they have gone up a LOT. I got one that was still packed in the cosmoline preservative grease. Not fun to clean/remove all that, but
    there are methods, and it works great. A real piece of history.
    They're still around and a reasonable deal can still be found.


    ... It's a chain saw. I always carry one for emergencies.
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  • From Daryl Stout@1:2320/33 to Kurt Weiske on Thu Oct 14 21:31:00 2021
    Kurt,

    There's a mental health crisis in this country, and two political
    parties that don't want to spend political capital to try and fix
    things.

    All they want to spend money on is getting re-elected. Before the election, they give voters the thumbs up. Once they're elected, they give voters "the bird".

    I'm surprised that the US health care-industrial complex hasn't lobbied
    to solve the problem for an astronomical ongoing cost.

    Big Pharma is likely making money hand over fist. I understand that their sentiment is "a cured or dead patient is a lost customer". So, they keep
    you suffering, but alive to keep buying expensive medications. Once you
    die, or end up not needing the medications anymore, they'll find some other poor sap to bleed dry, money wise.

    It does help to have a good prescription drug plan, though.

    Daryl

    ... We should back the Metric System every inch of the way.
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  • From Daryl Stout@1:2320/33 to Björn Felten on Thu Oct 14 21:39:00 2021
    Bjorn,

    There was an interesting article in WaPo a couple of days ago,
    asking "How dumb can a nation get and still survive?". I guess we are about to find out rather soon...? 8-)

    #EmptyShelfJoe, who is "out of his minden Biden" is now doing a "news conference", but he's reading off a teleprompter, and then he refuses to
    answer questions. If the teleprompter quits, and he has no notes, he's screwed. One has to wonder who is really "in charge".

    Then, he made the comment about "the supply issues" (a ton of shipping containers stuck at California ports, due to a lack of workers to unload them), having an effect on Christmas (you better shop now, and may not
    get your presents). That surely won't resonate with the kids.

    The ONLY thing I liked about him was that he was an Amtrak advocate,
    riding it to and from his home in Delaware to Washington, DC every day,
    when he was in Congress. They renamed the Wilmington, Delaware station
    in his honor. Otherwise, I can't stand him.

    Yet, the ONLY reason I accept him in there, is because of what is noted
    in the Old Testament in Daniel 2:21 -- "The Lord sets up kings, and He
    removes kings". So, whoever's in a position of authority...from the head
    of a country, all the way down to the lowly janitor who cleans the toilets, they are in that position for a reason.

    Daryl

    ... Before drawing boards, where did they go back to??
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  • From Oli@2:280/464.47 to Dan Clough on Fri Oct 15 08:14:16 2021
    Dan wrote (2021-10-14):

    Björn Felten wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Mass shootings are done by criminals. Criminals, by definition,
    are not well regulated.

    So why are they allowed to buy guns then, often without even
    performing a background check?

    They often/usually steal them, or buy them from other criminals.

    Is that so?


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoneman_Douglas_High_School_shooting

    In February 2017, Cruz legally purchased an AR-15 style semi-automatic rifle from a Coral Springs gun store, after having passed the required background check. Prior to the purchase he had similarly obtained several other firearms, including at least one shotgun and several other rifles. At the time of the shooting, in Florida, it was legal for people as young as 18 to purchase guns from federally licensed dealers, including the rifle allegedly used in the shooting.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_nightclub_shooting

    Since 2007, he had been a security guard for G4S Secure Solutions. The company said two screenings—one conducted upon hiring and the other in 2013—had raised no red flags. Mateen held an active statewide firearms license and an active security officer license, had passed a psychological test, and had no criminal record.

    Federal officials said a SIG Sauer MCX semi-automatic rifle and a 9mm Glock 17 semi-automatic pistol were recovered from Mateen's body, along with additional rounds. Mateen had legally purchased the two guns used in the shooting from a shop in Port St. Lucie: the SIG Sauer MCX rifle on June 4 and the Glock 17 pistol on June 5. He and law enforcement were reported to have fired over 200 rounds.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting

    On the evening of October 1, 2017, Stephen Paddock, a 64-year-old man from Mesquite, Nevada, opened fire upon the crowd attending the Route 91 Harvest music festival on the Las Vegas Strip in Nevada. From his 32nd-floor suites in the Mandalay Bay Hotel he fired more than 1,000 bullets, killing 60 people and wounding 411, with the ensuing panic bringing the number of injured to 867. About an hour later, Paddock was found dead in his room from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. His motive is officially undetermined.

    Twenty-four firearms, a large quantity of ammunition, and numerous high-capacity magazines capable of holding up to 100 rounds apiece were found in the suite. Fourteen of the firearms were .223-caliber AR-15-type semi-automatic rifles: three manufactured by Colt, two by Daniel Defense, two by FN Herstal, two by LWRC International, two by POF-USA, one with a .223 Wylde chamber by Christensen Arms, one made-to-order by LMT, and one by Noveske. The others were eight .308-caliber AR-10-type rifles, one .308-caliber Ruger American bolt-action rifle, and one .38-caliber Smith & Wesson Model 342 revolver. The AR-15 rifles were fitted with vertical forward grips and bump stocks, the latter of which allowed for recoil to actuate their triggers at a rate of 90 rounds in 10 seconds.[146] The AR-10 rifles were equipped with various telescopic sights and mounted on bipods. Paddock was found to have fired a total of 1,058 rounds from fifteen of the firearms: 1,049 from twelve AR-15-style rifles,
    ight from two AR-10-style rifles, and the round used to kill himself from the Smith & Wesson revolver.

    During the subsequent investigation, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives determined that the firearms found in his hotel room, along with more guns found in his homes, had been legally purchased in Nevada, California, Texas, and Utah. In the month preceding the shooting, he had attempted to purchase tracer ammunition, but the gun dealer he approached did not have the item in stock. He bought tracer ammunition from a private seller at a Phoenix, Arizona gun show.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indianapolis_FedEx_shooting

    In March 2020, Hole's mother contacted the local authorities and warned them about her son's intent to die by suicide by cop and his purchase of a shotgun the day before, prompting an investigation to be opened. Police responded to the home and took him to a hospital. While being placed in handcuffs, an anxious Hole instructed the officers to turn off his computer, since he did not want anyone to see what was on it. An officer went upstairs to seize the shotgun and observed what he identified as white supremacist websites on Hole's computer in the process. Hole was placed in an "immediate detention mental health temporary hold" by the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department. In April 2020, the FBI questioned Hole about the websites. The investigation was later closed due to insufficient evidence of any criminal violation or a racially motivated extremist ideology held by Hole, though the shotgun was not returned to him.

    According to the police, Hole used two AR-15 style rifles in the shooting, and both of them were legally purchased from a licensed gun store in July and September 2020. Under Indiana's red flag law, Hole could have been prevented from making firearm purchases for at least six months after his temporary mental health detainment if a hearing had been scheduled with a judge fourteen days after the seizure of his shotgun. However, Marion County prosecutors decided to not schedule such a hearing, believing authorities had already achieved the law's objective since Hole's family did not want the seized shotgun back. Prosecutor Ryan Mears also said that if his office had proceeded with the hearing and lost, given Hole had been treated by medical professionals but not prescribed any medication, they would have been forced to return the shotgun to him. The police did not reveal where Hole had bought the rifles used in the shooting, instead saying the investigation was still ongoing.

    ---
    * Origin: 1995| Invention of the Cookie. The End. (2:280/464.47)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Bj¡rn Felten on Thu Oct 14 08:32:00 2021
    Bjrn Felten wrote to Lee Lofaso <=-

    I wonder if that's the weapon your founding fathers had in mind,
    when they granted guns to "A Well Regulated Militia" -- apparently everybody in the US?

    There was a commercial in the US a while ago that showed an "office
    shooting". A man walks in with a musket, takes a shot. People scream and run away. He takes the musket, puts the butt on the ground, pulls out a packet
    of powder, pours it down the barrel, drops in a ball, pulls the tamper out, tamps it, places a cap under the hammer and aims - except everyone's left.

    It was a nice commentary on the difference in firearms since when the constitution was written.

    I'm not a gun advocate, but the way things are headed in my part of the
    world, I could envision my kids needing a revolution to defend a free and
    open democracy.


    ... Do you remember?
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  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Dan Clough on Thu Oct 14 08:34:00 2021
    Dan Clough wrote to Bjrn Felten <=-

    Imagine what would have happened if the guy had an AR-15 --
    the preferred "gun" in the US...

    It's not "preferred" by everyone. I have many guns that I prefer over that one, although it's not bad for what it is.

    I'm old school - I would love to get an M1 Garand or M1 carbine, the rifle
    I'm sorry I missed when they were dirt cheap on the surplus market is the Moisin Nagant. Seems they've got up in price significantly.



    ... Do you remember?
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  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Björn Felten on Thu Oct 14 08:36:00 2021
    Bjrn Felten wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Interesting. So every US citizen belongs to a well regulated
    militia? How come then, that there's a mass shooting almost every day? Doesn't seem to be especially well regulated then...

    There's a mental health crisis in this country, and two political parties
    that don't want to spend political capital to try and fix things.

    I'm surprised that the US health care-industrial complex hasn't lobbied to solve the problem for an astronomical ongoing cost.




    ... Do you remember?
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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Bj÷rn Felten on Fri Oct 15 13:34:48 2021
    Hello Bjrn,

    Who needs guns when there are other options available?

    Imagine what would have happened if the guy had an AR-15 -- the preferred
    "gun" in the US...

    That depends on who you ask. According to the NRA (the National
    Rifle Association), the AR-15 is the "most popular rifle in America"
    and estimates Americans own more than 8 million of them. However,
    the Ruger-556 also sells well, as it is kind of like the bare-bones
    version of the AR-15.

    And then there is the Glock 19, which is the most popular handgun
    in the USA.

    I mean, we love our guns. The more of them the better.

    I wonder if that's the weapon your founding fathers had in mind, when they granted guns to "A Well Regulated Militia" -- apparently everybody in the US?

    They had muskets back in their day. With musketballs as ammo.
    These muskets were single shot, and took a while to reload.
    Not very accurate, and only the very wealthy could afford them.
    Which explains why British soldiers always dressed in red,
    making sure the American colonists could take good aim ...

    This worked well for a while. The British even gave them another
    go at it in the War of 1812. But after the Battle of New Orleans,
    they grew tired of it and let the Americans play war against
    themselves. Which they did from 1861-1865.

    Why did General Lee decide to quit the fight? Because the other
    side started using Winchesters. And there was no way his soldiers,
    armed only with muskets and musketballs, could compete with that.

    So the two sides decided to join forces and have a go at the
    Native Americans, who were armed only with bows and arrows.
    We showed them Injuns what Winchesters could do. Yep. We really
    do love our guns.

    --Lee

    --
    Dieting doesn't work, Weight Watchers does

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Fri Oct 15 13:35:08 2021
    Hello Bjrn,

    when they granted guns to "A Well Regulated Militia" --
    apparently everybody in the US?

    Yes, it's everybody (actuaI US citizens anyway) in the USA.

    Interesting. So every US citizen belongs to a well regulated militia? How come then, that there's a mass shooting almost every day? Doesn't seem to be especially well regulated then...

    Americans have rights. Including the right of "going postal".
    Now just imagine what a "well regulated militia" of US citizens
    "going postal" would mean ...

    --Lee

    --
    Why not enjoy the go?

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Fri Oct 15 13:35:32 2021
    Hello Bjrn,

    Mass shootings are done by criminals. Criminals, by definition, are
    not
    well regulated.

    So why are they allowed to buy guns then, often without even performing
    a background check?

    Criminals are convicts, doing time in prison.
    They are not allowed to buy guns.
    Or possess them.
    At any time.

    Donald Trump is an unconvicted felon.
    As such, he is still allowed to buy guns.
    And to possess them.
    At any time he wants.
    However, he has hired guns to protect him.
    Known otherwise as the secret service.
    We have no idea as to who they are.
    Or who they might be.
    Althouth we did get a good glimpse of them on January 6th.

    --Lee

    --
    Impossible is nothing

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  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Dan Clough on Fri Oct 15 15:24:16 2021
    They *BECAME* criminals when they performed the
    crimes described.

    Big difference from the free world then. Here we become criminals after the last appeal in the court system has been exhausted...



    ..

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  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Oli on Fri Oct 15 07:36:00 2021
    Oli wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Dan wrote (2021-10-14):

    Bj}{rn Felten wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Mass shootings are done by criminals. Criminals, by definition,
    are not well regulated.

    So why are they allowed to buy guns then, often without even
    performing a background check?

    They often/usually steal them, or buy them from other criminals.

    Is that so?

    Yes. Wow, you're even slower than I thought....

    So, right there above, the question was "Why are criminals allowed to
    buy guns?". I'll wait while you confirm that....

    OK, so now read every single example you copy/pasted below. They all
    say that the perpetrator *LEGALLY* bought the guns they used. That's because..... <DRUMROLL> ...... they were *NOT* *CRIMINALS* when they
    purchased the firearms. They *BECAME* criminals when they performed the crimes described.

    So to summarize, not a single one of your examples has anything to do
    with "criminals buying guns".

    Are you able to comprehend this?



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoneman_Douglas_High_School_shootin
    g

    In February 2017, Cruz legally purchased an AR-15 style
    semi-automatic rifle from a Coral Springs gun store, after having
    passed the required background check. Prior to the purchase he
    had similarly obtained several other firearms, including at least
    one shotgun and several other rifles. At the time of the
    shooting, in Florida, it was legal for people as young as 18 to
    purchase guns from federally licensed dealers, including the
    rifle allegedly used in the shooting.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_nightclub_shooting

    Since 2007, he had been a security guard for G4S Secure
    Solutions. The company said two screeningsone conducted upon
    hiring and the other in 2013had raised no red flags. Mateen
    held an active statewide firearms license and an active security
    officer license, had passed a psychological test, and had no
    criminal record.

    Federal officials said a SIG Sauer MCX semi-automatic rifle
    and a 9mm Glock 17 semi-automatic pistol were recovered from
    Mateen's body, along with additional rounds. Mateen had legally
    purchased the two guns used in the shooting from a shop in Port
    St. Lucie: the SIG Sauer MCX rifle on June 4 and the Glock 17
    pistol on June 5. He and law enforcement were reported to have
    fired over 200 rounds.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting

    On the evening of October 1, 2017, Stephen Paddock, a
    64-year-old man from Mesquite, Nevada, opened fire upon the crowd attending the Route 91 Harvest music festival on the Las Vegas
    Strip in Nevada. From his 32nd-floor suites in the Mandalay Bay
    Hotel he fired more than 1,000 bullets, killing 60 people and
    wounding 411, with the ensuing panic bringing the number of
    injured to 867. About an hour later, Paddock was found dead in
    his room from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. His motive is
    officially undetermined.

    Twenty-four firearms, a large quantity of ammunition, and
    numerous high-capacity magazines capable of holding up to 100
    rounds apiece were found in the suite. Fourteen of the firearms
    were .223-caliber AR-15-type semi-automatic rifles: three
    manufactured by Colt, two by Daniel Defense, two by FN Herstal,
    two by LWRC International, two by POF-USA, one with a .223 Wylde
    chamber by Christensen Arms, one made-to-order by LMT, and one by
    Noveske. The others were eight .308-caliber AR-10-type rifles,
    one .308-caliber Ruger American bolt-action rifle, and one
    .38-caliber Smith & Wesson Model 342 revolver. The AR-15 rifles
    were fitted with vertical forward grips and bump stocks, the
    latter of which allowed for recoil to actuate their triggers at a
    rate of 90 rounds in 10 seconds.[146] The AR-10 rifles were
    equipped with various telescopic sights and mounted on bipods.
    Paddock was found to have fired a total of 1,058 rounds from
    fifteen of the firearms: 1,049 from twelve AR-15-style rifles,
    ight from two AR-10-style rifles, and the round used to kill
    himself from the Smith & Wesson revolver.

    During the subsequent investigation, the Bureau of Alcohol,
    Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives determined that the firearms
    found in his hotel room, along with more guns found in his homes,
    had been legally purchased in Nevada, California, Texas, and
    Utah. In the month preceding the shooting, he had attempted to
    purchase tracer ammunition, but the gun dealer he approached did
    not have the item in stock. He bought tracer ammunition from a
    private seller at a Phoenix, Arizona gun show.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indianapolis_FedEx_shooting

    In March 2020, Hole's mother contacted the local authorities
    and warned them about her son's intent to die by suicide by cop
    and his purchase of a shotgun the day before, prompting an
    investigation to be opened. Police responded to the home and took
    him to a hospital. While being placed in handcuffs, an anxious
    Hole instructed the officers to turn off his computer, since he
    did not want anyone to see what was on it. An officer went
    upstairs to seize the shotgun and observed what he identified as
    white supremacist websites on Hole's computer in the process.
    Hole was placed in an "immediate detention mental health
    temporary hold" by the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police
    Department. In April 2020, the FBI questioned Hole about the
    websites. The investigation was later closed due to insufficient
    evidence of any criminal violation or a racially motivated
    extremist ideology held by Hole, though the shotgun was not
    returned to him.

    According to the police, Hole used two AR-15 style rifles in
    the shooting, and both of them were legally purchased from a
    licensed gun store in July and September 2020. Under Indiana's
    red flag law, Hole could have been prevented from making firearm
    purchases for at least six months after his temporary mental
    health detainment if a hearing had been scheduled with a judge
    fourteen days after the seizure of his shotgun. However, Marion
    County prosecutors decided to not schedule such a hearing,
    believing authorities had already achieved the law's objective
    since Hole's family did not want the seized shotgun back.
    Prosecutor Ryan Mears also said that if his office had proceeded
    with the hearing and lost, given Hole had been treated by medical professionals but not prescribed any medication, they would have
    been forced to return the shotgun to him. The police did not
    reveal where Hole had bought the rifles used in the shooting,
    instead saying the investigation was still ongoing.


    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Lee Lofaso on Fri Oct 15 15:38:14 2021
    Americans have rights.

    Severely crippled it appears? Why do you accept extremely undemocratic stuff like gerrymandering, Electoral Collage and abridged filibuster (long gone is the Mr. Smith Goes To Washington style)?

    And, above all -- your Senate? Really? A senator from WY represents 300k citizens and one from CA represents 20M? With equal voting rights?

    In Sweden we too had this arrogant "we have to make sure the stupid populace in the other chamber doesn't make any mistakes" two chamber system, but we abolished it more than half a century ago, and we're doing fine, democratically.



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Oli on Fri Oct 15 19:21:04 2021
    Hello Oli,

    Mass shootings are done by criminals. Criminals, by definition, are
    not
    well regulated.

    Mass shootings are (mostly) done by US Americans. US Americans, by observation, are (emotionally) not well regulated.

    The Norwegian guy was walking around town, shooting people with bows
    and arrows, at random. Americans do not do that.

    --Lee

    --
    Hey hey! Ho ho! Donald Trump has got to go!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Fri Oct 15 19:21:14 2021
    Hello Bjrn,

    There's a mental health crisis in this country, and two political
    parties
    that don't want to spend political capital to try and fix things.

    There was an interesting article in WaPo a couple of days ago, asking "How dumb can a nation get and still survive?". I guess we are about to find out rather soon...? 8-)

    Trump 2.0 coming soon ...

    --Lee

    --
    Every bite is a different temperature

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Lee Lofaso on Fri Oct 15 20:50:04 2021
    Trump 2.0 coming soon ...

    Always those darn sequels. Hollywood fantasy, nothing really new. I miss those nuggets from the late 20th century...



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Lee Lofaso on Fri Oct 15 21:13:22 2021
    The Norwegian guy was walking around town, shooting people with bows
    and arrows, at random.

    Rumour has it that the guy was from Denmark. Always those damn immigrants, eh?

    Americans do not do that.

    US Americans you mean, for sure? Are you saying, that every bullet, from those AR-15 guys of yours, only hits its intended target? If so, sounds like very well regulated militia...




    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Björn Felten on Fri Oct 15 22:21:16 2021
    US Americans you mean, for sure? Are you saying, that every bullet,
    from those AR-15 guys of yours, only hits its intended target? If so, sounds like very well regulated militia...

    The purpose of the well regulated militia was to deter the British from invading again...

    Question: how many times did the Brits invade the USA since 1776?

    Conclusion: it works.

    --- DB4 - Oct 12 2021
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Fri Oct 15 23:54:16 2021
    The purpose of the well regulated militia was to deter the British from invading again...

    Question: how many times did the Brits invade the USA since 1776?

    Conclusion: it works.

    And since it's even less likely to happen nowadays, the intelligent conclusion would be that there's no longer a need for the 2nd amendment so it can safely be repealed, the same way the fiasco of the 18th went? Thusly saving some 40 thousand US lives every year and making the country almost as safe as the rest of the civilized world to live in. No? (But of course, what's 40k/year compared to the 750k COVID casualties that the GOP is responsible for?)

    And subsequently, after the fall of the USSR, the rest of the world reduced their military expenditure a lot. After all, the Cold War had been "won", now back to peace. No?

    Except for one country, that kept increasing their military to the present state, where their 4% of the world population spends more than the entire rest of the world on their military -- and still keep increasing it. No wonder the dollar currency is going down the drain...

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Fri Oct 15 23:58:52 2021
    Ward Dossche -> Bjrn Felten skrev 2021-10-16 00:01:

    BTW, it seems like Nick still hasn't figured out this extremely complicated time zone kludge:

    X-JAM-FTSKLUDGE: TZUTC: 0020

    Surely, your not 20 minutes off from UTC in Belgium? 8-)

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Björn Felten on Sat Oct 16 00:27:00 2021
    BTW, it seems like Nick still hasn't figured out this extremely
    complicated time zone kludge:

    X-JAM-FTSKLUDGE: TZUTC: 0020

    That was my mistake. Corrected now.

    Just be aware the 'TZUTC: 0020' has been approved by the nodelist police.

    Surely, your not 20 minutes off from UTC in Belgium? 8-)

    It's a long list where Belgium is somewhat off.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Oct 12 2021
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Björn Felten on Sat Oct 16 00:30:12 2021
    And since it's even less likely to happen nowadays, the intelligent conclusion would be that there's no longer a need for the 2nd amendment
    so it can safely be repealed, ...

    Having spent years of my life in the USA I've come to the conclusion that the industries supporting home gun ownership employ hundreds of thousands of people, it's an economy of its own. It's there to stay, with or without the 2nd ammendment.

    And subsequently, after the fall of the USSR, the rest of the world
    reduced their military expenditure a lot. After all, the Cold War had
    been "won", now back to peace. No?

    Correct. I'm not going to win a lot of friends with this, but the US military is a giant unemployment service. It keeps the employment statistics good ... plus, again, it keeps the economy going ... war is good for business and the US economy is a system on its own ... No European Commission there trying to keep the deficits within reason.

    Except for one country, that kept increasing their military to the
    present state, where their 4% of the world population spends more than
    the entire rest of the world on their military -- and still keep
    increasing it. No wonder the dollar currency is going down the drain...

    The US expenditure in the Middle East since 9/11 could have eradicated hunger from the world. At the same time that would have contained exploding demographics, probably global warming (no, I'm not saying the USA is causing global warming all by itself), improved the situation of women in developing countries, reduced infant mortality, probably resolved the Palestinian problem, reduced the power and influence of religious clerics in ultra-poor countries (not targeting a specific religion) ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Oct 12 2021
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Ward Dossche on Sat Oct 16 02:36:24 2021
    Hi Ward,

    On 2021-10-16 00:27:01, you wrote to Bjrn Felten:

    Just be aware the 'TZUTC: 0020' has been approved by the nodelist
    police.

    Nope. The message that got approved had a 'TZUTC: 0200' kludge!

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Sat Oct 16 07:02:12 2021
    The US expenditure in the Middle East since 9/11 could have eradicated hunger from the world.

    That's one of the many "wars" that USA, and many other countries that for various, mostly politically or economically corrupt, reasons follow suit, have started. Wars that doesn't even have a theoretical chance of being winnable for the simple reason that they have no exit strategy, so no way to know when to stop.

    Another such "war" is of course the war on drugs. A not only economical disaster, but also demographical. Millions of people all over the world are being put in jail for times often in par with rape or murder -- even for just being users. The people higher up are so well connected, that they almost always escape scot free, filthy rich.



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Daryl Stout on Sat Oct 16 15:59:58 2021
    On 15/10/2021 12:31, Daryl Stout : Kurt Weiske wrote:

      It does help to have a good prescription drug plan, though.

    You plan the prescription drugs you're going to take?

    I take mine on the advice of my doctor.

    --
    Regards
    David

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi
    * Origin: Cecil Plains, QLD (3:640/305)
  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Dan Clough on Sat Oct 16 16:06:50 2021
    On 15/10/2021 22:36, Dan Clough : Oli wrote:

    OK, so now read every single example you copy/pasted below.  They all
    say that the perpetrator *LEGALLY* bought the guns they used.  That's because..... <DRUMROLL> ...... they were *NOT* *CRIMINALS* when they purchased the firearms.  They *BECAME* criminals when they performed the crimes described.

    Are you sure?

    In this country one does not become a criminal until one is convicted of a crime, not the alleged execution of the act. Sure in your country people have that same freedom?

    --
    Regards
    David

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi
    * Origin: Cecil Plains, QLD (3:640/305)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Sat Oct 16 18:12:46 2021
    Hello Bjrn,

    The purpose of the well regulated militia was to deter the British from
    invading again...

    Question: how many times did the Brits invade the USA since 1776?

    Conclusion: it works.

    And since it's even less likely to happen nowadays,

    The British have invaded the USA many times.

    the intelligent conclusion would be that there's no longer a need for the 2nd amendment so it can safely be repealed, the same way the fiasco of the 18th went?

    Oh, come now. James Bond had special permission to do his thing.
    And never needed to rely on any amendment. He always martini prepared
    just the way he wanted - shaken not stirred. And much, much more.

    Thusly saving some 40 thousand US lives every year and making the country almost as safe as the rest of the civilized world to live in. No?

    The USA has Austin Powers.

    (But of course, what's 40k/year compared to the 750k COVID casualties that the GOP is responsible for?)

    Trump is always right.
    Just keep saying that, and at some point you will believe it.

    And subsequently, after the fall of the USSR, the rest of the world reduced
    their military expenditure a lot. After all, the Cold War had been "won", now back to peace. No?

    The USA can have new "cold war" with China.
    That way the two countries can bankrupt each
    other and make Sweden a superpower once again.
    And then the other Scandinavian countries will
    unite with Sweden and the Vikings will once
    again rule the world. Without ever firing
    a single shot. See how that works?

    Except for one country, that kept increasing their military to the present state, where their 4% of the world population spends more than the entire rest of the world on their military -- and still keep increasing it. No wonder the dollar currency is going down the drain...

    North Korea does not count as a country.
    It does not even count as a banana republic.
    Their army consists of martial artists who
    put on a show for their dear leader by lying
    on pieces of broken glass. And never shedding
    a tear while doing so.

    --Lee

    --
    As good as it looks

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Sat Oct 16 18:12:52 2021
    Hello Ward,

    US Americans you mean, for sure? Are you saying, that every bullet,
    from those AR-15 guys of yours, only hits its intended target? If so,
    sounds like very well regulated militia...

    The purpose of the well regulated militia was to deter the British from invading again...

    The pirate Jean Lafitte's "well regulated militia" repelled the
    British at the Battle of New Orleans, and made Andy Jackson a hero.
    We have a statue of Jackson riding his horse in Jackson Square,
    in front of St. Louis Basilica in the French Quarter. Pigeons love
    the place, and are well fed by tourists.

    Question: how many times did the Brits invade the USA since 1776?

    The Beatles invaded City Park in the early 1960s.
    The Rolling Stones invaded the Superdome in the 1980s.
    And again a few years ago. Paul McCartney did it all
    by himself while dressed as a clown during a Mardi Gras
    parade in New Orleans, but everybody recognized him anyway.

    Conclusion: it works.

    Belgians are tone deaf and cannot sing like the British.

    --Lee

    --
    Food for the Fun of It

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Sat Oct 16 18:12:58 2021
    Hello Bjrn,

    Americans have rights.

    Severely crippled it appears? Why do you accept extremely undemocratic stuff
    like gerrymandering, Electoral Collage and abridged filibuster (long gone is the Mr. Smith Goes To Washington style)?

    I never said Americans have equal rights. Remember that.

    And, above all -- your Senate? Really? A senator from WY represents 300k citizens and one from CA represents 20M? With equal voting rights?

    Equal voting rights? For who? For elderly white men who own
    property (including slaves)? That used to be the way it was.
    A long time ago. But now we have allowed some other groups
    to play. Such as black folks. And women. And even Native
    Americans (as long as they do not live on a reservation).
    But folks who are in mental institutions? No way. And folks
    who are incarcerated in penal institutions? No way. Hell,
    we won't let them vote even after they get out of prison.
    And folks who we claim are mentally retarded? While it is
    true we sometimes vote for a retard as POTUS, it is not
    true we allow retards to vote.

    In Sweden we too had this arrogant "we have to make sure the stupid populace
    in the other chamber doesn't make any mistakes" two chamber system, but we abolished it more than half a century ago, and we're doing fine, democratically.

    We have been trying for decades to pass the Equal Rights Amendment.
    And we will keep trying for many more decades to pass the Equal Rights Amendment. Will it ever get passed? Only after the Second Coming of
    Christ.

    --Lee

    --
    Dieting doesn't work, Weight Watchers does

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Lee Lofaso on Sat Oct 16 20:27:44 2021
    And folks who we claim are mentally retarded? While it is
    true we sometimes vote for a retard as POTUS, it is not
    true we allow retards to vote.

    They are sent towards "news://eljaco.se" so they can post here.

    \%/@rd
    --- DB4 - Oct 12 2021
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Daryl Stout@1:2320/33 to David Drummond on Sat Oct 16 10:59:00 2021
    David,

      It does help to have a good prescription drug plan, though.

    You plan the prescription drugs you're going to take?

    I take mine on the advice of my doctor.

    That's an example of double entendre'. The only prescription
    medications I take are the ones that are legally prescribed. The
    "prescription drug plan" is how much I pay for each prescription
    with a co-pay. A rare few of them have no co-pay at all. I think
    I pay around $4 for generics and $8 for name brands. There are
    certain medications I avoid...such as those that have caused bad
    reactions, or for those that might affect one having had chicken
    pox. I had that so bad 41 years ago, that it put me in the hospital
    for a week, and out of college and work for 2 months. It nearly
    went into encephalitis, which could've killed me.

    Years ago, after having outpatient surgery to remove a benign
    cyst from the left buttocks cheek (benign means that it could've
    become malignant/cancerous), I had to have home health care for
    two months afterwards. The wound was so deep, that it had to heal
    from the inside out.

    So, a nurse came by every day to change the bandages, clean the
    wound, and repack and bandage it. It was far enough away from the
    anal orfice where possible fecal contamination from a bowel movement
    was not an issue. My late mother-in-law quipped "you get to show
    your butt, and get it rubbed". <G> Yet, nudity means nothing to the
    medical professionals. So, I don't care if these folks, male or
    female, see me naked as a jaybird....with the genitalia or the
    buttocks. They are there to save my butt, and not kiss it.

    However, with the home health care people, one's medicine cabinet
    was inspected to verify that they didn't have any illegal drugs. Many
    Arkansas clinics participate in a program that ensures the legitimate
    use of controlled substances. Since all of my medications were legally prescribed, they couldn't touch me.

    I used to live at H.U.D. subsidized housing for the disabled, when
    I moved out from living with my parents before I got married in 2003,
    to be with my wife (and Co-Sysop...we met on another area BBS years
    ago). She was already disabled when we married, and I became disabled
    during our marriage (and it wasn't from her beating on me <G>). After
    she died in 2007, I stayed out there until 2018, when I had to put my
    elderly Mom in a nursing home, and I moved back to what was my parents
    place. My Dad had died 2 1/2 months before my wife, and my Mom died in
    2019.

    Anyway, there had been several reports of "drug runners" out there.
    I heard in one case, one of the residents (you have to be elderly or
    disabled or both to live out there) grandson's had a meth lab in the
    storage room. It was a miracle that the place wasn't destroyed in an
    explosive fire.

    I was waiting for the place to get warrants from the local police department, and require a naked strip search bodily inspection of all
    the residents to check for drug use (i.e. track marks from heroin
    injections, etc.). I even have a 25 page medical list that I take to
    all my medical visits (whether to a clinic or hospital), with various screenshots of recent blood work. I had nothing to hide medically, so
    I would've gladly complied.

    I even submitted that to the management, when I did my yearly rent recertification. The rent is normally set at 30% of one's income...but
    with a detailed list of medical expeneses (i.e. prescription drugs,
    clinic and hospital visits, etc.), you can get a discount on the rent.
    Yet for many folks, they get less than $1200 a month, and are below
    "the poverty line". Then, you have these greedy bastards in Washington,
    DC, who complain that they can't survive on $250,000 a year...they
    don't have a clue.

    Before the elections, they give us the "thumbs up". After they get
    elected, they give us "the bird".

    Daryl

    ... "Farfrompoopin'" - German word for constipation.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
    * Origin: The Thunderbolt BBS - Little Rock, Arkansas (1:2320/33)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to David Drummond on Sun Oct 17 20:06:14 2021
    Hello David,

    It does help to have a good prescription drug plan, though.

    You plan the prescription drugs you're going to take?

    I take mine on the advice of my doctor.

    I used to self-medicate. But I learned better as I found
    myself in the back seat of a squad car. Only took one trip
    to convince me. This was a long time ago ...

    --Lee

    --
    Food for the Fun of It

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Mon Oct 18 07:11:34 2021
    Hello Ward,

    And folks who we claim are mentally retarded? While it is
    true we sometimes vote for a retard as POTUS, it is not
    true we allow retards to vote.

    They are sent towards "news://eljaco.se" so they can post here.

    I am sure our dear editor has already sent an open invitation
    to all, including Donald Trump, to post whatever messages they
    feel like here in this forum. Quite unlike Facebook and Twitter
    and other places.

    So. What's your excuse?

    --Lee

    --
    Every bite is a different temperature

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to David Drummond on Mon Oct 18 21:26:00 2021
    David Drummond wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    OK, so now read every single example you copy/pasted below.+ They all
    say that the perpetrator *LEGALLY* bought the guns they used.+ That's because..... <DRUMROLL> ...... they were *NOT* *CRIMINALS* when they purchased the firearms.+ They *BECAME* criminals when they performed the crimes described.

    Are you sure?

    In this country one does not become a criminal until one is
    convicted of a crime, not the alleged execution of the act. Sure
    in your country people have that same freedom?

    Yeah, whatever. You're trying to split the same ass-hair that your
    buddy Beorn did. Quit being a pedantic moron.

    Neither one of you has the same freedoms that are here in the USA, and
    you never will.


    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dan Clough on Tue Oct 19 10:48:04 2021
    Neither one of you has the same freedoms that are here in the USA, and
    you never will.

    Hey Dan, don't say such things. You're making a case which you can't prove.

    The past 49 years I've lived a total of 7 years in the USA and I've got a pretty good understanding of differences and similarities, that experience did not come from a 10-day fly/drive vacation in California augmented by Wikipedia.

    My freedom of speech here in Belgium is just as available and restricted as yours, About politicians we also wonder who the hell got them elected, just as you do. Our friend Bjorn's country has women's rights enacted in such a way any other country should be jealous.

    2nd ammendment? I can get a gun here in Belgium just as easy as in the USA, only the background check lasts 2 weeks and you'll get a bi-annual unannounced visit by the police to check upon your weapon. People just are not interested that much in owning a gun ... it's expensive, especially the ammo.

    If you think you have got superb freedoms that we don't have, please list them.

    Take care,

    \%/@rd
    --- DB4 - Oct 12 2021
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Ward Dossche on Tue Oct 19 07:35:00 2021
    Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Neither one of you has the same freedoms that are here in the USA, and
    you never will.

    Hey Dan, don't say such things. You're making a case which you
    can't prove.

    The past 49 years I've lived a total of 7 years in the USA and
    I've got a pretty good understanding of differences and
    similarities, that experience did not come from a 10-day
    fly/drive vacation in California augmented by Wikipedia.

    My freedom of speech here in Belgium is just as available and
    restricted as yours, About politicians we also wonder who the
    hell got them elected, just as you do. Our friend Bjorn's country
    has women's rights enacted in such a way any other country should
    be jealous.

    2nd ammendment? I can get a gun here in Belgium just as easy as
    in the USA, only the background check lasts 2 weeks and you'll
    get a bi-annual unannounced visit by the police to check upon
    your weapon. People just are not interested that much in owning a
    gun ... it's expensive, especially the ammo.

    If you think you have got superb freedoms that we don't have,
    please list them.

    Hey Ward, sorry but I'm not gonna go down that rabbit hole. It's like
    arguing about politics or religion. Nobody wins.

    Let's leave it at "everybody firmly believes that their own country is
    the best."



    ... Everybody should believe in something: I believe I'll have another drink. === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Lee Lofaso on Mon Oct 18 06:20:00 2021
    Lee Lofaso wrote to David Drummond <=-

    I used to self-medicate. But I learned better as I found
    myself in the back seat of a squad car. Only took one trip
    to convince me. This was a long time ago ...

    Talk about a bad trip!



    Thank you, I'll be here all week. Make sure to tip your waitresses.


    ... Infinitesimal gradations
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Tue Oct 19 16:31:52 2021
    Hello Bjrn,

    The US expenditure in the Middle East since 9/11 could have eradicated
    hunger from the world.

    That's one of the many "wars" that USA, and many other countries that for various, mostly politically or economically corrupt, reasons follow suit, have started.

    AFAIK, there is only one war has started. For reasons explained by
    Secretary of State Colin Powell, may he rest in peace, at the United
    Nations. GWB had explained his own reasons earlier, in a televised
    address to the American people, saying we have to either fight the
    terrorists here, or over there. Which is why he chose to invade
    Iraq, rather than continue the hunt for Osama bin Laden.

    Wars that doesn't even have a theoretical chance of being winnable for the simple reason that they have no exit strategy, so no way to know when to stop.

    Who needs an exit strategy when the objective is to stay there forever?

    The USA is not good at leaving places where it has overstayed its
    welcome. No other country is good at that either. It is simply not
    in the nature of a fighting force to leave the place where it is
    fighting, or has been fighting. The idea is to own every square
    inch of real estate that can be had, no matter what the cost.
    An exchange of human lives for real estate. That is what war is.

    President Joe Biden decided to pull the plug on Afghanistan because
    he got tired of seeing our young men and women die for no good reason.
    His critics call him a traitor for doing so, but the families of those
    who served in Afghanistan call him a hero. And most of all those who
    made it back home alive rather than in a body bag.

    Now what were the reasons Colin Powell gave as to why the USA
    invaded Iraq? Did it have anything to do with the events of 9-11?
    I do not remember him claiming anything of the sort ...

    Another such "war" is of course the war on drugs.

    Noam Chomsky explained what it was all about.

    A not only economical disaster, but also demographical.

    Putting poor people in prison for life after being convicted
    for a third time for nonviolent crimes is something no other country
    on Earth has done.

    Millions of people all over the world are being put in jail for times often
    in par with rape or murder -- even for just being users.

    Possession of a small amount of pot is a nonviolent crime. Yet,
    three convictions of said offense gets one life in prison in the
    USA. But thank goodness they get caught here, rather than in the
    Philippines, where paramilitary squads just shoot them on site
    rather than giving them a fair trial and jail time.

    The people higher up are so well connected, that they almost always escape scot free, filthy rich.

    Eric Clapton always did like cocaine ... and he really did
    shoot the sheriff (but he did not shoot the deputy).

    --Lee

    --
    We're Great In Bed

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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Tue Oct 19 23:32:14 2021
    Hello Bjrn,

    The purpose of the well regulated militia was to deter the British from
    invading again...

    Question: how many times did the Brits invade the USA since 1776?

    Conclusion: it works.

    And since it's even less likely to happen nowadays,

    And for what reason might that be? The British Empire lasted much
    longer than whatever one might call The American Empire. In fact, I
    would say the "American Empire" is crumbling before our very eyes,
    as we type these messages in Fidoland.

    the intelligent conclusion would be that there's no longer a need for the 2nd amendment so it can safely be repealed, the same way the fiasco of the 18th went?

    Prohibition did not work out quite the way it was planned. I had
    an uncle who blew up his basement when trying to make some of that
    forbidden stuff. Somehow, he survived unscathed.

    The 2nd amendment had been working just fine, basically as intended
    by the framers of the constitution, until around 1980. That is when
    things changed, with the courts siding in favor of gun manufacturers
    rather than gun owners. You see, the issue had become not who owns
    the guns, but rather how many guns could manufacturers sell to those
    who had the means to buy them.

    Thusly saving some 40 thousand US lives every year and making the country almost as safe as the rest of the civilized world to live in. No?

    Absolutely not. The issue is not about human lives at all, as
    explained above. Yes, Americans love their guns. Which is why they
    keep buying them. And continue buying them. No matter how many they
    have, they continue to buy even more of them. And then there is the
    ammo. Gotta buy ammo to go with the guns. Lots of ammo ...

    (But of course, what's 40k/year compared to the 750k COVID casualties that the GOP is responsible for?)

    Death by gunshot is far quicker (and less painful) than death by COVID.

    And subsequently, after the fall of the USSR, the rest of the world reduced
    their military expenditure a lot. After all, the Cold War had been "won", now back to peace. No?

    Time to start a new one with China.

    Except for one country, that kept increasing their military to the present state, where their 4% of the world population spends more than the entire rest of the world on their military --

    North Korea does not need a military. It has martial artists.

    and still keep increasing it.

    Rocket Man's little sister has one heck of a kick.

    No wonder the dollar currency is going down the drain...

    The newest Jeep compact car is the body double of a Fiat.
    The US paper currency has been fiat (scrip) currency for decades.
    Not even the penny is worth a penny any more.

    --Lee

    --
    It's not for women.

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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Dan Clough on Tue Oct 19 23:32:42 2021
    Hello Dan,

    [..]

    Neither one of you has the same freedoms that are here in the USA, and
    you never will.

    Come to Louisiana. Leave different.

    --Lee

    --
    Make Sure Your Next Erection Is In Safe Hands

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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Dan Clough on Tue Oct 19 23:32:46 2021
    Hello Dan,

    [..]

    Let's leave it at "everybody firmly believes that their own country is
    the best."

    I live in a banana republic.

    --Lee

    --
    Hey hey! Ho ho! Donald Trump has got to go!

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  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Dan Clough on Wed Oct 20 13:32:56 2021
    On 19/10/2021 12:26, Dan Clough : David Drummond wrote:

     DD>> In this country one does not become a criminal until one is
     DD>> convicted of a crime, not the alleged execution of the act. Sure
     DD>> in your country people have that same freedom?

    Yeah, whatever.  You're trying to split the same ass-hair that your
    buddy Beorn did.  Quit being a pedantic moron.

    Neither one of you has the same freedoms that are here in the USA, and
    you never will.

    Such as?

    --
    Regards
    David

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  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Dan Clough on Wed Oct 20 13:35:20 2021
    On 19/10/2021 22:35, Dan Clough : Ward Dossche wrote:

     WD>> If you think you have got superb freedoms that we don't have,
     WD>> please list them.

    Hey Ward, sorry but I'm not gonna go down that rabbit hole.  It's like arguing about politics or religion.  Nobody wins.

    You're the one that raised the topic...

    Let's leave it at "everybody firmly believes that their own country is
    the best."

    I certainly don't - I do not even live in the country I am a citizen of. That has nothing to do with the freedoms in either country however.

    --
    Regards
    David

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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Wed Oct 20 08:56:44 2021
    Hello Bjrn,

    The Norwegian guy was walking around town, shooting people with bows
    and arrows, at random.

    Rumour has it that the guy was from Denmark. Always those damn immigrants, eh?

    Presumably for his own safety and well-being his place of origin
    was not disclosed until they had him in custody. We know how dangerous
    those Mexicans are here in the USA. And Norwegians can't have that
    happen over there.

    Americans do not do that.

    US Americans you mean, for sure?

    Only those north of the border. Canadians can't shoot straight,
    so they get a pass. But those Mexicans are dangerous. And all those
    others south of the border. Can't have those Portuguese speaking
    Brazilians around either. We know what they do during Mardi Gras.

    Are you saying, that every bullet, from those AR-15 guys of yours, only hits
    its intended target?

    We're crack shots. Each and every one of us. That is why we love
    those point-and-shoot AK-15 rifles so much.

    If so, sounds like very well regulated militia...

    Of course it is.
    We regulate ourselves very well.
    The best in the world.

    One fellow took it upon himself to climb a tower and take
    aim at University of Texas college students. He hit scores
    of students until he finally got tired of the exercise.

    We really should have offered him free tuition.

    --Lee

    --
    Whose streets? / Our streets!

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