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  • Can you see...

    From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to All on Thu Oct 27 13:30:42 2022
    Hi, All!

    Can an Englishmen see in the gloom? :)

    Is it a darkness or twilight?

    Bye, All!
    Alexander Koryagin
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  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to alexander koryagin on Fri Oct 28 21:46:44 2022
    Hi, Alexander! Recently you wrote in a message to All:

    Can an Englishmen see in the gloom? :)
    |Singular, Englishman. Plural, Englishmen.

    Is it a darkness or twilight?


    It could be either. Gloom = a state of partial or total darkness. Twilight occurs near dawn or sunset when the sun is below the horizon but you can see a bit of light in the sky. (This phenomenon apparently doesn't occur near the equator, where Kipling says "the dawn comes up like thunder".) :-))




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Ardith Hinton on Mon Oct 31 09:23:14 2022
    Hi, Ardith Hinton!
    I read your message from 28.10.2022 21:46

    ak>> Can an Englishmen see in the gloom? :)
    AH> |Singular, Englishman. Plural, Englishmen.
    ak>> Is it a darkness or twilight?
    AH> It could be either. Gloom = a state of partial or
    AH> total darkness.

    Well... So an Englishman can see in the gloom and can not see in the
    gloom. ;-)

    Bye, Ardith!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.english_tutor 2022
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  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to alexander koryagin on Sat Nov 12 22:40:10 2022
    Hi, Alexander! Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:

    Gloom = a state of partial or total darkness.

    Well... So an Englishman can see in the gloom
    and can not see in the gloom. ;-)


    I see you got the idea. Good.... :-)

    I added the correction just before posting my reply, then began to wonder if I should have said simply "-man", "-men". This pattern is akin to what dictionaries use, builds on what you & others here already know, and is easier to read. OTOH I wouldn't want anyone to read too much into it.

    Man, men. Woman, women. The same applies to "Englishman" & other words you've probably encountered before. But times change, and where folks like me grew up hearing of policemen & policewomen many such terms have been replaced by gender-neutral terms... WRT this example, "police officer". :-)




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Ardith Hinton on Mon Nov 14 09:17:34 2022
    Hi, Ardith Hinton!
    I read your message from 12.11.2022 22:40

    AH>> Gloom = a state of partial or total darkness.
    ak>> Well... So an Englishman can see in the gloom
    ak>> and can not see in the gloom. ;-)
    AH> I see you got the idea. Good.... :-)
    AH> I added the correction just before posting my reply,
    AH> then began to wonder if I should have said simply "-man",
    AH> "-men". This pattern is akin to what dictionaries use, builds
    AH> on what you & others here already know, and is easier to read.
    AH> OTOH I wouldn't want anyone to read too much into it. Man,
    AH> men. Woman, women. The same applies to "Englishman" & other words
    AH> you've probably encountered before. But times change, and where folks
    AH> like me grew up hearing of policemen & policewomen many such terms
    AH> have been replaced by gender-neutral terms... WRT this example,
    "police
    AH> officer". :-)

    So it would have been proper to ask "Can an English person see in the
    gloom?" Does it sound well?


    Bye, Ardith!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.english_tutor,local.cc.ak 2022
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  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to alexander koryagin on Tue Nov 15 23:36:46 2022
    Hi, Alexander! Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:

    many such terms have been replaced by gender-neutral terms
    ... WRT this example, "police officer". :-)

    So it would have been proper to ask "Can an English person
    see in the gloom?" Does it sound well?


    IMHO it's a good start... and a good example of how one must know at least half the answers in order to ask the right questions.

    Personally, I understand what you mean when you say "Englishman". I grew up when the masculine pronoun was the default in formal grammar & I don't feel slighted if you'd rather not clutter your prose by including my gender in your enquiries. The word "Englishman" also includes folks of English ancestry
    ... such as myself... but doesn't have the multiple definitions "English" has.

    The latter may include anybody who speaks English, which I figure is more realistic in this echo. But others may be sitting on their hands because they were born in e.g. Ireland or Russia or southeast Asia. Yes, the language originated in England. What you really want to ask, however, is probably more like "Is it acceptable &/or appropriate to write [blah blah] in English"? :-)




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)
  • From Anton Shepelev@2:221/6 to alexander koryagin on Sun Nov 20 13:20:56 2022
    alexander koryagin:

    So it would have been proper to ask "Can an English
    person see in the gloom?" Does it sound well?

    I beg to remark that propriety and grammatical correctess
    are largely orthogonal.

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