• Confusion!!

    From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dallas Hinton on Tue Dec 28 12:24:32 2021
    Hi, Dallas Hinton!
    I read your message from 27.12.2021 16:14

    DH> We'll begin with a box, and the plural is boxes; but the plural
    DH> of ox became oxen not oxes. One fowl is a goose, but two are
    DH> called geese, yet the plural of moose should never be meese.
    DH> You may find a lone mouse or a nest full of mice; yet the
    DH> plural of house is houses, not hice. If the plural of man is
    DH> always called men, why shouldn't the plural of pan be called
    DH> pen? If I spoke of my foot and show you my feet, and I give you
    DH> a boot, would a pair be called beet? If one is a tooth and a whole set
    DH> are teeth, why shouldn't the plural of booth be called beeth? Then one
    DH> may be that, and three would be those, yet hat in the plural would
    DH> never be hose, and the plural of cat is cats, not cose. We speak of a
    DH> brother and also of brethren, but though we say mother, we never say
    DH> methren. Then the masculine pronouns are he, his and him, but imagine
    DH> the feminine, she, shis and shim.

    For English learners it should be something more positive. ;-)

    Bye, Dallas!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.english_tutor 2021
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to Alexander Koryagin on Wed Jan 19 23:34:44 2022
    Hi, Alexander! Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:

    My point is that native speakers tend to struggle with
    these issues as well... so what you are seeing in
    Dallas's message is our version of gallows humour.

    I also didn't say my words seriously.


    Fair enough... I did notice your winks. But I also see that a word like "yacht" may be one the majority of us need to use only occasionally. :-))



    It is also a big question what percent of all English
    words is known to all the people speaking English.

    No argument AFAIC. When last I heard there were +/- half
    a million words in the English language, not counting
    technical terms... but the average social conversation
    included only about 300 of them. I don't talk down to
    the folks I meet in this echo, yet they seem to keep
    coming back for more.... :-Q

    It seems to me that I can't imagine how on earth a person
    can remember one million words.


    Agreed. In my dictionaries, even those which claim to include many fewer words, there's a large team of specialists involved. :-)



    And, besides, we should note that today 90% of people
    don't read any books. ;)


    Quite possibly... but they don't read echoes like E_T either! I am addressing an audience consisting of people who do read books &/or who know how to find various dictionaries on the Internet if they don't have their own. :-)



    I believe that now in the USA there should be a
    simplified version of IVANHOE, as it is for the Bible. ;)


    I found simplified versions of Shakespeare's words when I looked up a phrase in which I was uncertain about the spelling... but AFAIC much was lost that way. The author of IVANHOE used the language of Shakespeare & of the King James Bible... which his audience would have been familiar with... to represent the Old English which his medieval characters would have used. If the language were too authentic, few people would be able to understand it... if it were too modern, as in "you'll blow your cover", the effect would be lost.

    My experience as a junior high school teacher is that if Johnny (or his father) read some children's edition of e.g. HUCKLEBERRY FINN before he was old enough to appreciate the original Johnny may refuse to accept further input WRT the subject because he is quite convinced he's already mastered it.... :-Q

    If you don't feel ready to tackle some particular work yet, I would suggest you make a mental note & be patient. I gave up on WAR AND PEACE when I first tried to read it because I couldn't keep the names straight... but then I met you & other folks here who were able to explain how Russian names work, the library introduced a system where I didn't have to go downtown to find out what editions were available besides the one at our local branch, and various people shared their interpretation of the cast of characters on the Internet. I found one which included a few errors but printed it & modified it as I saw fit. :-)



    ... and one of my former students told me I was the
    only teacher he'd ever met who said "I don't Inknow".
    If you tell me you don't understand I can slow down or
    try rewording what I said or get back to you when I've
    examined the matter further.

    What does it mean "I don't Inknow"?


    Oh, dear! I guess it means I shouldn't post messages late at night ... as I often do when I may be interrupted at other times... because I tend to overlook such errors. What I had in mind was "I don't know".... :-(




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)
  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/6 to Ardith Hinton on Tue Jan 25 14:54:44 2022

    Hi, Ardith Hinton! -> Alexander Koryagin
    I read your message from 20.01.2022 01:34

    I believe that now in the USA there should be a simplified version
    of IVANHOE, as it is for the Bible.

    I found simplified versions of Shakespeare's words when I looked up
    a phrase in which I was uncertain about the spelling... but AFAIC
    much was lost that way. The author of IVANHOE used the language of Shakespeare & of the King James Bible... which his audience would
    have been familiar with... to represent the Old English which his
    medieval characters would have used. If the language were too
    authentic, few people would be able to understand it... if it were
    too modern, as in "you'll blow your cover", the effect would be
    lost.

    It seems true, although it was a Russian translation of IVANHOE that I read first, and I liked it very much. IMHO, it depends on the translator who must have a good sense of humour. If a translator is a serious pedant IMHO he cannot translate such things. Although, formally, everything can be translated correctly.

    My experience as a junior high school teacher is that if Johnny (or
    his father) read some children's edition of e.g. HUCKLEBERRY FINN
    before he was old enough to appreciate the original Johnny may
    refuse to accept further input WRT the subject because he is quite convinced he's already mastered it.... :-Q

    The heptateuch about Harry Porter is more important for the young generation. ;--)

    If you don't feel ready to tackle some particular work yet, I would suggest you make a mental note & be patient. I gave up on WAR AND
    PEACE when I first tried to read it because I couldn't keep the
    names straight... but then I met you & other folks here who were
    able to explain how Russian names work, the library introduced a
    system where I didn't have to go downtown to find out what editions
    were available besides the one at our local branch, and various
    people shared their interpretation of the cast of characters on the Internet. I found one which included a few errors but printed it & modified it as I saw fit.

    Getting red -- I haven't read WAR AND PEACE. ;) I didn't find the crooks to get hooked. At least after seeing a movie with the same name.

    Bye, Ardith!
    Alexander Koryagin
    english_tutor 2022

    ---
    * Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)