• Anecdotes about translators

    From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to All on Fri Sep 24 14:28:14 2021
    Hi, All!

    I am not sure I know the correct word. In Russia we use the word "a male
    goat" as an idiomatic sleng word meaning absence of respect, or when you
    have a resentment to somebody. Does the following story sound funny in
    English and can it be improved?

    Three men from the USA delegation came to Russia and went to a big plant
    to sign a contract. The director sees them into his cabinet and says to
    his secretary girl, "Well dear -- one glass of cognac for me and three
    tea for these goats." One man from the delegation says, "two tea,
    please, I am a translator."

    Bye, All!
    Alexander Koryagin
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  • From Paul Quinn@3:640/1384 to Ardith Hinton on Fri Oct 1 17:54:50 2021
    Hi!Ardith,

    On 30 Sep 2021, Ardith Hinton said the following...

    When I looked up "twit" in THE FREE DICTIONARY I found quite a lot of stuff you might find useful, including definitions & synonyms.
    In summary... a twit is a foolish, stupid, annoying, and/or
    insignificant person. I'm guessing that is more or less what you were thinking of here. :-)

    Down here, a 'Twit' was long=known as a "pregnant goldfish". Hence the
    insult. Is that dictionary a revised version of history by milennials or one compiled by ignorant new world-ers? ;)

    Cheers,
    Paul.

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  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to Paul Quinn on Sat Oct 2 22:15:48 2021
    Hi, Paul! Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:

    When I looked up "twit" in THE FREE DICTIONARY I found
    quite a lot of stuff you might find useful, including
    definitions & synonyms. In summary... a twit is a
    foolish, stupid, annoying, and/or insignificant person.
    I'm guessing that is more or less what you were thinking
    of here. :-)

    Down here, a 'Twit' was long=known as a "pregnant goldfish".


    According to Uncle Google, the idea that a "pregnant goldfish" may be referred to as a "twit" is an urban legend from Australia.

    I see you reversed the order. Am I missing something? :-)



    Is that dictionary a revised version of history by
    milennials or one compiled by ignorant new world-ers? ;)


    I cited THE FREE DICTIONARY in this case because it includes listings from various sources & because other people may be able to read it online. I'm happy with what the authors have to say about the issue. In addition, it saves me the effort of researching & retyping material from umpteen hard copies. :-Q




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  • From Paul Quinn@3:640/1384 to Ardith Hinton on Sun Oct 3 18:46:18 2021
    Hi! Ardith,

    On 02 Oct 2021, Ardith Hinton said the following...

    Down here, a 'Twit' was long-known as a "pregnant goldfish".

    According to Uncle Google, the idea that a "pregnant goldfish" may be referred to as a "twit" is an urban legend from Australia.

    It's harkening back to the misty memory of long-gone youth. I did think, later, that it was a suggestive Monty Python line but cannot find any reference.

    AH> I cited THE FREE DICTIONARY in this case because it includes

    I did see that much later. Nice try. ;)

    Cheers,
    Paul.

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  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Ardith Hinton on Mon Oct 4 16:54:38 2021
    Hi, Ardith Hinton!
    I read your message from 30.09.2021 23:36

    I am not sure I know the correct word. In Russia we
    use the word "a male goat" as an idiomatic sleng word
    meaning absence of respect, or when you have a
    resentment to somebody.
    When I looked up "twit" in THE FREE DICTIONARY I
    found quite a lot of stuff you might find useful, including
    definitions & synonyms. In summary... a twit is a foolish, stupid, annoying, and/or insignificant person. I'm guessing that is more or
    less what you were thinking of here. :-)

    Sorry for silence. I am busy with... guess with what? I am rewriting my ReformatorQuoter app for... Linux! ;-) Do you know that Windows, an
    American operating system, has been declared in Russia as undesirable
    product of an enemy state, and there had been issued an order to refuse
    from it (in all state structures) and rewrite all applications to the
    Russian version of Linux (a Debian clone). It it very funny and I have
    some fun too, having a chance to meet with Linux and its developing tool Qtcreator. I like it in general, although the concepts of the program
    should be changed and it will take time. But it will be cooler working
    with different character coding systems.

    Bye, Ardith!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.english_tutor 2021
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  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/6 to Ardith Hinton on Tue Oct 12 09:08:02 2021

    Hi, Ardith Hinton! -> Alexander Koryagin
    I read your message from 30.09.2021 23:36

    I am not sure I know the correct word. In Russia we use the
    word "a male goat" as an idiomatic sleng word meaning absence of
    respect, or when you have a resentment to somebody.

    When I looked up "twit" in THE FREE DICTIONARY I found quite a lot
    of stuff you might find useful, including definitions & synonyms.
    In summary... a twit is a foolish, stupid, annoying, and/or
    insignificant person. I'm guessing that is more or less what you
    were thinking of here.

    Did you use "twit" as "beep" when somebody on TV swears? Is "goat" so
    indecent?

    Does the following story sound funny in English and can it be
    improved?

    Yes, on both counts. Long explanation to follow... [grin].

    Three men from the USA delegation came to Russia and went to a big
    plant to sign a contract. The director sees them into his cabinet

    |private office

    Yea, there are many words in Russian when we are sure that they mean the
    same in English. :)

    Why not use the same verb tense throughout the story? I know we
    have discussed this issue already... but a tense change in mid-
    paragraph, unless the logic is obvious to me, still sounds wrong
    according to what I was taught.: - Q

    I agree. Although I saw many examples of it in the modern literature. It
    looks like as if we put the reader into the situation we are telling
    him. So, we have a kind of innuendo "once upon a time ..." And next we
    are as if present at the place. Probably this can make the story more
    vivid. Of maybe it can be considered as a free informal style?

    and says to his secretary girl, "Well dear --
    |female secretary

    Although such informal "dear" can be applied to the girl only.

    one glass of cognac for me and three tea for these goats."

    IOW he's such an important person he can drink alcoholic beverages
    on the job without offering any to persons he regards as inferior
    to himself... or at least he thinks he is. My sympathies lie with
    the translator already. :-))

    He knows that American businessmen don't drink at work. How foolish of
    them! ;-)

    One man from the delegation says, "two tea, please, I am a
    translator."

    Ah... so this story is not a commentary on the status of women. But
    to be fair, I'm writing as if the translator could be male or
    female.

    On a sociological level, the translator may be thinking s/he works
    as hard as (and probably gets paid less than) other folk attending
    this meeting... yet, like the secretary, s/he is a highly skilled individual without whose help these guys would be unable to do
    their jobs. And if s/he's expected to talk as much as all of them
    do the need to wet his/her whistle may be greater.

    I think the story mostly tells us that Russians like to drink alcohol everywhere. So we find out actually that the translator is a Russian and
    he probably doesn't mind to have a shot too.

    In English, the translator's response could be a play on words too:

    * I often hear young servers nowadays saying e.g. "two coffees" or
    "two teas" when they mean "two cups of [whatever]". Perhaps the
    translator has noticed this phenomenon as well. Either way, two
    or more generally --> pluralization of a noun or pronoun.

    I noted it. :)

    * When people have more than one variety of tea in stock, they may
    ask which a guest prefers. My mother-in-law used to offer China
    tea or India tea. I reckon that in such situations a translator
    might say "One cup of each, please... I'm bilingual."

    I see.

    * Depending on the intonation, and on whether s/he's addressing the
    secretary or the director, the translator's reply could be heard
    as "to tease"... an allusion to the director's bad manners. And
    s/he sets a good example by adding "please", which he didn't do.

    The boss certainly was not an example of a good person.

    I see the translator's response as amusing when I think of
    situations in which e.g. a male teacher nearing retirement
    disagreed with our principal at staff meetings from time to time. I
    also notice that the actual words could be interpreted in more than
    one way, as is very common with jokes in English.

    Yes. It is not necessary that the translator wanted to drink alcohol.
    The understanding depends on our feeling of black humour. :)


    Bye, Ardith!
    Alexander Koryagin
    english_tutor 2021

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  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to alexander koryagin on Sat Oct 30 20:15:08 2021
    Hi, alexander!

    24 сен 21 14:28, alexander koryagin -> All:

    please, I am a translator."

    Should it be "an interpreter"?

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.
    --- Чем меньше человек знает, тем охотней делится знаниями.
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to Alexander Koryagin on Mon Nov 1 19:30:12 2021

    *** Ответ на сообщение из _Carbon.Mail (Carbon.Mail).

    Hi, Alexander!

    01 ноя 21 11:21, Alexander Koryagin -> Stas Mishchenkov:

    please, I am a translator."
    Should it be "an interpreter"?

    I believe both words are correct, but they have a bit different meaning.

    If you interpret a phrase or something you actually explain it. For instance, we can interpret the events in Ukraine, according to our point of view.

    This is the job of an interpreter.

    If you translate you take one form of something and change it into
    another form.

    Often this is not enough to understand the translation.

    Some people tell that an interpreter is a person who works with the
    spoken word, whereas a translator works with the written word. But it
    IMHO sounds funny because of course an interpreter can translate a
    written text too.

    ;)

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.
    --- Кто не любит вина, женщин и песен, так дypаком и yмpет!
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/6 to Stas Mishchenkov on Tue Nov 2 11:04:24 2021

    Hi, Stas Mishchenkov! -> Alexander Koryagin
    I read your message from 01.11.2021 19:30

    If you translate you take one form of something and change it into
    another form.

    Often this is not enough to understand the translation.

    Understanding is a separate thing. ;-) It is a usual thing when I don't understand a Russian version of the manual. ;-)

    PS: Not speaking about the original version. ;-)

    Bye, Stas!
    Alexander Koryagin
    english_tutor 2021

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  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/6 to Ardith Hinton on Mon Nov 8 08:37:24 2021

    Hi, Ardith Hinton! -> Alexander Koryagin
    I read your message from 04.11.2021 23:52

    please, I am a translator."
    Should it be "an interpreter"?
    I believe both words are correct, but they have a bit different
    meaning.

    If you interpret a phrase or something you actually explain it.
    For instance, we can interpret the events in Ukraine, according to
    our point of view.

    If the interpreter is expected to demystify what someone is saying
    as quickly as they can say it, the result could be more of an
    explanation than what I'd prefer if I'm hoping to read WAR AND
    PEACE in English. As for what's going on in SomePlace Else, we may
    get closest to the truth by comparing input from a variety of
    people who live there & in other parts of the world....

    On Russian TV news programs we see interpreters, too. ;-) They want not
    only tell us the news, they want us to understand them as it must be.
    So, all the television announcers have behind their shoulders theatre, neuro-lingual, brain-wash, hypnotic courses, and they do their job very effectively. I literally feel how a nasty girl penetrates into my
    brain. ;-)

    If you translate you take one form of something and change it into
    another form.

    Yet I notice that when you translate written material into English
    you behave in much the same way a professional translator would.
    You take the time to look things up & discuss with others whether
    e.g. "satchel" conveys to them what the word means to you, because
    such details are very important.

    As a rule a speech is much simpler than a written text from a book. An interpreter would just said "bag" not thinking too long.

    Some people tell that an interpreter is a person who works with
    the spoken word, whereas a translator works with the written word.

    Lionbridge.com explains the differences quite well. The situation
    as I see it is much like what I see WRT music. To a student of
    music history, "classical music" means a particular style composed
    during a particular era... to the average person, the meaning is
    much broader. In this case my choice of words depends on how much I believe the audience knows about the subject.: - Q

    Classical music? In Russia at least, it is a very narrow notion. We have
    of course Jazz which can be "classical", "modern" etc but when we speak "classical music" we mean a symphony music only.

    Bye, Ardith!
    Alexander Koryagin
    english_tutor 2021

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