Hi, All!

From "Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban" (well do you know these books calm nerves ;-)

-----Beginning of the citation-----
... Uncle Vernon brought out a bottle of brandy.

"Can I tempt you, Marge?"

Aunt Marge had already had quite a lot of wine. Her huge face was very red.

"Just a small one, then," she chuckled. "A bit more than that... and a bit more... that's the ticket."

Dudley was eating his fourth slice of pie. Aunt Petunia was sipping coffee with her little finger sticking out.
----- The end of the citation -----

As I see Aunt Petunia was not as drunk as Marge but why _her_ little finger was stuck out, while she drank coffee? ;-)

Now I see where a drunk man stuck out finger came from. But I never saw a drunk person with his finger stuck out. Does it happen in England? :)

Bye, All!
Alexander Koryagin

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* Origin: news://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/1.0)

Hi, Alexander -- on Jul 01 2026 at 13:49, you wrote:

Now I see where a drunk man stuck out finger came from. But I never
saw a drunk person with his finger stuck out. Does it happen in
England? :)

-----------
The credible origin lies in Renaissance-era European court
etiquette. Fashionable people used three fingers to hold small items (a convention borrowed partly from how one held a quill pen), leaving the other fingers extended. This became associated with refinement and was codified in etiquette manuals of the 17th-18th centuries.

The tea connection is specifically 18th-19th century British. As tea culture spread through the aristocracy and upper middle class, delicate porcelain teacups small and handleless at first, then with tiny handles were genuinely harder to grip. The three-finger hold again left the pinky naturally extended. It became a marker of gentility, imitated by those aspiring to higher social status.

The irony: by the Victorian era, etiquette authorities like Charles Day and later Emily Post actually disapproved of the extended pinky, calling it affected and overdone. It was a middle-class affectation mocking itself people performing "refinement" in a way that the genuinely refined found vulgar.

Today it persists as a comedic shorthand for snobbery, which is almost the opposite of its intended signal. It's a gesture that outlived its social context entirely and became a caricature of what it once tried to signal.
-------------- (from an AI search)

All of this to say that the lady was trying to be aristocracy and failed miserably.


Cheers... Dallas

--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: The BandMaster, Vancouver, CANADA (1:153/7715)

Today it persists as a comedic shorthand for snobbery, which is almost the opposite of its intended signal. It's a gesture that outlived its social context entirely and became a caricature of what it once tried to signal.
-------------- (from an AI search)

All of this to say that the lady was trying to be aristocracy and failed miserably.

I see this made fun of sometimes in British sitcoms.

Mike

--- ScorpioWeb v0.35a (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: Capitol City Online (1:2320/107)

Hi, Mike -- on Jul 04 2026 at 23:31, you wrote:

I see this made fun of sometimes in British sitcoms.

Very true -- and no less funny for knowing the history! :-)


Cheers... Dallas

--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: The BandMaster, Vancouver, CANADA (1:153/7715)

Hi, Alexander! Recently you wrote in a message to All:


--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)

Hi, Alexander! Recently you wrote in a message to All:

As I see Aunt Petunia was not as drunk as Marge but why _her_
little finger was stuck out, while she drank coffee? ;-)

Now I see where a drunk man stuck out finger came from. But
I never saw a drunk person with his finger stuck out. Does
it happen in England? :)

I see how a person might stick out a finger when they're drinking from a teacup with a very small handle. Here in North America coffee is more likely to be served in a mug which allows space for at least three fingers... and I reckon most people would probably tuck the fourth underneath the handle for better balance.

+/- 50 years ago tea was generally served, both in England & in Canada, in bone china cups manufactured by Royal Albert or Royal Doulton e.g. While there is little or no market for such things in Canada nowadays I can't tell you what was fashionable Over There at the time of writing... however, I can tell you that when I was growing up allowing one's little finger to stick out was regarded as a breach of etiquette. Children who did so would be told "Hang a hat on it!" as a form of rebuke. Makes sense if the kid doesn't know &/or has forgotten they'll be expected to grasp the handle of a such cup from the outside without doing that. But as to why & how a person could stick out one finger in the circumstances described is a mystery to me as well.... :-)




--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)

Hi, Mike! Recently you wrote in a message to Dallas Hinton:

Today it persists as a comedic shorthand for snobbery

_ _ _ O / _ _ C_U_T_ H_E_R_E_ _ _ _
O \

All of this to say that the lady was trying to be aristocracy
and failed miserably.

I see this made fun of sometimes in British sitcoms.

Ah, yes. Fawlty Towers comes to mind here. Dallas & I enjoyed that.

You two have given me another idea, though. When I was growing up it was often believed the working class preferred to drink coffee while the middle class preferred to drink tea. This is an overgeneralization of course. But if Aunt Petunia was putting on airs she may have used a delicate china teacup, and in view of the way her companions were behaving I think Alexander's doubt as to her sobriety is justified. Many people used to think a person could "sober up" by drinking coffee... i.e. until somebody pointed out years ago that the effort was far more likely to result in a "wide awake drunk". :-Q




--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)

Hi, Dallas Hinton!
I read your message from 04.07.2026 10:05

Today it persists as a comedic shorthand for snobbery, which is
almost ??the opposite of its intended signal. It's a gesture
that outlived its social context entirely and became a
caricature of what it once tried to signal.
-------------- (from an AI search)
All of this to say that the lady was trying to be aristocracy
and failed miserably.

An interesting evolution of the gesture meaning. It has acquired quite a different connotation in Russia. Nobody I think can say why it is, but a stuck out pinky in Russia is a sing of a great level of alcohol intoxication, as if a person cannot control it in his drunk condition.

I remember a joking story from my childhood:
A boy (his name Vovochka, a hero of many similar stories) came home very drunk and met his parents at the threshold. He looked at his parents and said, "Do you know that ice scream was so great!" And he gave a thumb sing of approval, but he could not control his little finger and it had stuck out. Vovochka looked at it said in a drunk voice, "A traitor!" ;-)

BTW, I read that there is no expression "give the thumb up", only "give the thumbs up". Do you use the latter one even if you use only one hand gesture?

Bye, Dallas!
Alexander Koryagin
english_tutor 2026

---
* Origin: news://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/1.0)

Hi, Ardith Hinton!
I read your message from 04.07.2026 23:50

I see how a person might stick out a finger when they're
drinking from a ??teacup with a very small handle. Here in
North America coffee is more likely to be served in a mug
which allows space for at least three fingers... and I reckon
most people would probably tuck the fourth underneath the
handle for better balance.

Well, let it be that a cap has a small handle, but is it necessary to stick out a little finger? IMHO, an advantage of this action is doubtful. Another matter if you have a ring with a brilliant on your little finger. ;=)

Bye, Ardith!
Alexander Koryagin
english_tutor 2026

---
* Origin: news://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/1.0)

You two have given me another idea, though. When I was growing up it was often believed the working class preferred to drink coffee while the middle class preferred to drink tea. This is an overgeneralization of course. But if Aunt Petunia was putting on airs she may have used a delicate china teacup, and in view of the way her companions were behaving I think Alexander's doubt as to her sobriety is justified. Many people used to think a person could "sober up" by drinking coffee... i.e. until somebody pointed out years ago that the effort was far more likely to result in a "wide awake drunk". :-Q

I think you might be on to something here. ;)

Mike

--- ScorpioWeb v0.35a (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: Capitol City Online (1:2320/107)

BTW, I read that there is no expression "give the thumb up", only "give the thumbs up". Do you use the latter one even if you use only one hand gesture?

Interesting observation. I believe it is always the plural even when only one thumb is used.

Mike

--- ScorpioWeb v0.35a (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: Capitol City Online (1:2320/107)

Hi, Alexander -- on Jul 07 2026 at 13:55, you wrote:

it is, but a stuck out pinky in Russia is a sing of a great level of alcohol intoxication, as if a person cannot control it in his drunk condition.

Interesting!

BTW, I read that there is no expression "give the thumb up", only
"give the thumbs up". Do you use the latter one even if you use only
one hand gesture?

We would say "Thumbs up" to express approval. We don't often make a gesture to go with that, but I have seen it done one-handed only.

Cheers... Dallas

--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: The BandMaster, Vancouver, CANADA (1:153/7715)

Hello Alexander!

In a message of 07 Jul 26 13:55, Alexander wrote to Dallas:

An interesting evolution of the gesture meaning. It has acquired
quite a different connotation in Russia. Nobody I think can say why
it is, but a stuck out pinky in Russia is a sing of a great level
of alcohol intoxication, as if a person cannot control it in his
drunk condition.

No, this changed a long time ago — now it's a Russian mercenaries sign, "jumbo". Maybe because they are, on the whole, stupid, brainwashed
drunkards.



See you,
dp.
--- FidoMail dev
* Origin: livin' on the edge (2:5001/100)